White Front sleeping problem

[pomonabill221]

IF his kidneys were/are failing, wouldn't his appetite and his poops be affected?
His poops are excellent (urates are "marbled" with the solids) and he has a good appetite and loves his treats and the vegs I give both of my guys and gals.
I know poop can say alot.
BTW... he didn't fall last night! I did fold up a fluffy towel and covered the towel with a washcloth, under where he likes to sleep just in case.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I honestly think he's napping more during the day because he's not getting straight sleep throughout the night.

Hey, I've got my hopes up high for your Mr. Toots.

 

[pomonabill221]

Pajarita.... where do you see the fluid and the enlarged liver? I really don't know what I am looking for (can you tell???)

 

[pomonabill221]

I honestly think he's napping more during the day because he's not getting straight sleep throughout the night.

Hey, I've got my hopes up high for your Mr. Toots.

Thank you for your hopes!
I think that is true about the sleeping as well... both my guys sleep during the day, on and off, a nap here and there.... I guess I am just a little too paranoid...

 

[pomonabill221]

WOOPS!! sorry for closing the bird cam connection.. I had a phone call from the vet!!!!
The Borna virus results are..... (drum roll).... NEGATIVE!
that is a GOOD thing BUT doesn't answer the question...
VATS GOINK ON WITH TOOTS?????
My vet recommended an avian specialist, Dr. Nemitz in Orange country, but they are closed today so I will call tomorrow.
Probably will be pricey, but if he can tell me what is going on and what to do, at least we can solve this dam mystery!!!
I am getting very frustrated not knowing!

The camera should be back online now... sorry I had to stop it.

 

[henpecked]

Hey Bill, go online and look for Blue Pearl Animal hospital. I think they have one near you in Cal. Their clinic here in Tampa has an excellent Dr on staff, Helen Lightfoot. I'm sure there's a consultation fee involved but if you could get your records and history to her... She's the best i know of and don't many AVs impress me, LOL. The AVs in this area see a ton of birds and she's #1 on amazons.Your welcome to use my name if that might help, PM me if you need more info.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Bill, I just saw Toot's "little" adventure, lol. He climbed out of his cage rather quickly, got to the top, you approached....and WEEEEE...off he went flying. That was pretty neat!

 

[pomonabill221]

Yes, someone rang the doorbell that makes both birds go nuts... I went to answer, came back to stroke Toots's back and knocked him off his perch... he took off into the kitchen where I perched him and took him to the back door so he could look out the window, where he promptly bit my finger, so I brought him back to his cage.
He has always been very tempermental when I have him on my finger/arm, and bites without warning... I mean REALLY bites AND chews also!!! OUCH!!!!

So you can see that both wings work, and I did some "testing" last night and he can see out of both eyes (no blindness)..... a BIG mystery as to what is going on!

I will make an appt. with the referral vet tomorrow... maybe he will have an answer!

 

[Pajarita]

Pajarita.... where do you see the fluid and the enlarged liver? I really don't know what I am looking for (can you tell???)

I am comparing his X-Rays to one I have of a healthy parrot. The heart and the liver are supposed to form a perfect hourglass and, when the liver is enlarged, the little neck is wider.

Also, the 'empty' part of the abdomen is supposed to show black in an X-Ray and, when there is liquid in it, it shows greyish (the more white, the more liquid).

Here is the healthy parrot Xray for your comparison BUT a word of caution, I had an Orange Winged Amazon (old breeder I bought because breeder was going out of business and had sold all her birds but this one 'cause he was sick) which died of aflatoxin poisoning and he never showed a single bad level in his blood work (no bile acids test was done -this is how I learned about it) or a severely enlarged liver in the X-rays. I spent thousands with the best Board Certified AV in Pa on this bird because I KNEW there was something wrong with him and I switched vets twice and all three said the same thing: Nothing wrong with him - but, when he died and the necropsy was done, they found out.

 

[pomonabill221]

Thank You Pajarita...
Yes, I took a look at the link that posted those pictures and looked at the xray from 2011 and the latest ones, and I do see that the liver is larger in the 2013 xrays.
Also, in Toots's 2013 xray, that air sac area is not black, but has a "white haze" in it that could be liquid.
I just wonder if there is a possibility that an issue with the xray's contrast is different between the xray's? If you look at the xray taken in 2011, the light to dark contrast is much less, the muscles are lighter, the bones are lighter, the overall contrast is just different between the two... I know they were taken 2 years apart by different vets and different machines, but I would think that the calibration has to be the same.
Very confusing!
I guess I will just have to make an appt. to see the specialist and take all my records with me.
Thank you for your input and observations! I appreciate it!
Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

OH just forgot to mention...
Went to the store yesterday and got some fresh vegs. (I HATE the work veggies!) and some Cheerios.
The vegs were string beans, broccoli floretts, sugar peas, baby carrots and corn.
I washed them in hot water and gave them to my guys.... they went ballistic and ate ALL of it! Even the Cheerios.. I got them for the fiber mainly but also variety.

Toots seemed to sleep alittle better! but he still drooped his head (damit!).
At about 6 a.m. he finished off his Cheerios, then went for a drink so his appetite is still very good and doesn't seem to have changed at all...

I have got to stop obsessing over him, but be vigilant and get him to the vet... I am loosing alot of sleep and I spent all day yesterday on the net, but ya can't learn too much!
Bill

 

[SandyBee]

Please be careful, cheerios are not that great for them. High levels of iron, good for people not for birds!

 

[pomonabill221]

Please be careful, cheerios are not that great for them. High levels of iron, good for people not for birds!

Thank You Sandy for the warning....
I am aware of it but wanted to get some fiber and other nutrients in him quick... I will not make this a regular diet of course.
These will turn into treats only!
I did read the label and besides iron, it has a high level of sodium as well so for treats I think it is ok (one or two O's at a time) but not a regular thing.
Thanks again
Bill

 

[ShellyBorg]

Try sprouting some wheat berries for him. I love feeding sprouts to my guys. Lots of fiber and supper packed with all the best vit. Even sprouted sunflowers seed and other seed are great! (Not many sunflowers)

 

[SandyBee]

I thought you might know, but better safe than sorry!!
I wish you the best ans wish we had more answers for you.

 

[pomonabill221]

Just made an appt for the bird specialist (at 211 for the visit OUCH) for Sat 8/10.
All the records from my two vets are also being faxed over, and I am preparing the xray images for the dr. and getting all my records together.
This is the last stop! IT's going to be a loooong week!

 

[pomonabill221]

I thought you might know, but better safe than sorry!!
I wish you the best ans wish we had more answers for you.

No, I appreciate ANY and ALL ideas/thoughts/suggestions/insights/etc.
This little guy has me and my vet stumped!

I just have to keep in mind that he is an import and was brought into this country the inhuman way that used to be done in the 70-80's, so there is no telling what genetic problems have been lurking for years.

Like I said before, he has been sleeping strange for several years, but this head drooping/left leg lameness is only about 2-4 months old, so something has changed.

He has always been a rather nasty bird, biting without warning and "lunging" when he is on his cage. The only thing I can attribute all this to is something is hurting him and he thinks I am doing it.

He has become ALOT more "loving" and regurgitating to me where he never used to do this. Don't know exactly why, but I think it might be that he want's to bond with me now, and wants more handling and comfort because he is hurting....

He still eats like a pig, loves his treats, reacts when I say "crunchy"/"nut"/"cheese", poops look excellent ("marbled" urates in the medium light green poop with clear urine), JUST THE SLEEPING AND LAME LEFT FOOT?!?!?!?!?

So what that sort of tells my none veterinary knowledge (purely experience) is that he doesn't respond to antibiotics/antifungal/meticam, so it may be an organ problem (I didn't say failure because I am trying to think positive).

We'll see what Dr. Nemetiz has to say! I can't wait for this one! And of course I will let everyone know when I find out!

Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

Try sprouting some wheat berries for him. I love feeding sprouts to my guys. Lots of fiber and supper packed with all the best vit. Even sprouted sunflowers seed and other seed are great! (Not many sunflowers)

I have a good health food store close by and will get some sprouts for them.
I do NOT give them sunflower seeds anymore... I quit that "pet store blend" stuff several years ago (probably about 10 years), started them on Zupreem, then switched to Roudybush, then Harrisons.

I must admit that I haven't given them very much in the way of vegs or fruit, but that is changing right now! Never too late! AND they LIKE it!
I have to become less lazy about my precious family members!

 

[pomonabill221]

Actually they are not real Cheerios, but a store brand (Smart and Final) "Tasteeos" (uncolored and not sweetened).
I read the label and got them instead because the sodium was a little lower, the fat was about the same.
Yes, Iron is high... 50% of "minimum daily req." (for humans)
and Zinc is 25% B6/12 is 25%.
So at least it is something that may help, but NOT for regular consumption!!!

 

[Pajarita]

Iron damages birds livers so, if he has a liver problem, the human cereal only makes it worse. Fruit and sweet potatoes are good for fiber.