White Front sleeping problem

[pomonabill221]

Glad you were able to get in!
The connection might not be that good on my end, and the cameras are cheapys so the quality isn't that good, but feel free to log in anytime! The cameras are always on.

Please don't worry about the "quality of life" thing so soon... yes we all have to make that decision sometime, but try and just put that in the far reaches of your mind.. you don't want to have those thoughts consuming you right now....
Just enjoy your guys!

Sounds like Noel was a real special friend and you were able to spend quality time with him, and I am sure that he loved all the attention as well, so you did all you could for him.

 

[MonicaMc]

Don't have the best connection on my end, either! At least, not until we can get cable, and they haven't dug for that yet... but supposed to have it at the end of the month.

This bourke is 16-18 years old, average lifespan is 11-15 years, so she's already past her expected lifespan. I've heard of one bourke that died at the age of 21 and another that's still living at 24! She unfortunately has cancer on her right foot that did cause some perching problems and we tried to remove the tumor via laser surgery 2 years ago, but it just grew back. I can't imagine putting her through surgery again. When she was younger she often weighed around 44 grams, now she weighs around 36 grams and I'm trying to get weight put back on her. That's about 18% or so of her weight that she's lost and she's been steady at 36 grams for a few years now. She still eats well. And now she has breathing problems in one nostril. To flush her sinuses I have to, more or less, hold her upside down and flush 6 cc's of saline through each nostril. It's not a pleasant experience for her because she's not a tame bird, and she breaths heavily after this treatment, trying to get the remaining fluid out of her sinuses and mouth. I hate having to do that to her as well as giving her supplements. It's very stressful on her. When she's not getting her sinuses flushed or getting supplements, she's fine. Without them, she gets sick. As an older bird, she's not as active as she used to be.

 

[Pajarita]

I got it, but could only manage a quick look at the webcam atm!

I do realize that birds can be a lot sicker than they appear, but at the same time they do show subtle signs, however small they are, that they aren't feeling well. It could be something as simple as not being as active, but the change is so subtle that it goes unnoticed.

Noel was not an active conure. He enjoyed chewing things up, but he didn't play. As long as he had everything he needed, he was quiet, and conures are known for being noisy. He never really was "right" from the beginning and I can only hope that I made his last years better. He was the only bird I could take outside unrestrained and unclipped and not worry about getting lost.

ATM, I only have one bird who's not up to par... she has cancer on her foot and for some reason she now has a sinus problem in one nostril. Her last blood work was fine, flushed the sinuses and it was clear... no infections present... yet, she keeps getting her right nostril clogged up. All I know is that she's got a blockage in her sinuses and it's not loosening up, even with multiple sinus flushes. I wonder if I must make the decision of quality of life for her someday soon.


Thanks for the link! I'll have to check up on Toots later when I've got a better connection! And I hope he does improve, or at least feels better!

Monica, has your vet considered amputation for the foot and a rhinolith in that nostril?

I had to put down an amazon with bone cancer but it was in both her legs and the vet said it had most likely spread to other bones so I did not consider amputating both legs but it is a solution if it hasn't spread and in only one foot.

 

[pomonabill221]

Amputation sounds awful, but it might be the best thing to do so the cancer doesn't spread.
Birds are VERY resilient, and will have no problem dealing with the change, so don't think that this will be a major disability, just realize that since the cancer keeps coming back, this would be a good option.

 

[MonicaMc]

I actually wanted my a-vet to amputate her foot! At the time we didn't know it was cancer, even though they had previously taken a sample and checked it. The sample didn't have any cancer cells in it, and because of that, my a-vet didn't think we needed to do anything as drastic as amputation. After the tumor was removed, I asked them to re-evaluate it, and that's when we found out it was cancer. I think the surgery and testing the mass was around $600 total? So definitely not cheap!


Here's an image pre-surgery

The night she came home from surgery... of all the places in the cage, she chose that spot to sleep. I honestly didn't feel as if she'd make it through the night!

And not recent photos, but the growth coming back.

The surgery was two years ago (as of August 18th), and if I thought she could handle going through surgery again, I'd do it! Believe me, I would! But she is no "spring chicken", and I worry that if I were to put her through surgery again, she wouldn't make it out alive.

 

[pomonabill221]

WOW... that is a real tough decision for you! I feel for you!
Poor little guy!
Do you feel comfortable with your vet's decisions? Is he a good avian vet and does he know birds well?
I really hope that any decision you make is the one that has your bird in mind and will make his quality of life as good as it can be.
Love the coloring of his feathers! Very unique!

 

[MonicaMc]

I always worry I'll aspirate her when doing the nasal flushes! It's the only way to keep her sinuses clear though. I'd put her on meds if I thought it would help.

I do feel comfortable with my a-vets decisions. Only thing we disagreed on was the amputation vs removal of the mass, and I completely understand where she was coming from! I'd probably feel the same. Although, for some reason, their records were wrong about her age and they had her down at 9 years old when she was really 14-16 at the time. My a-vet has two birds of her own and she does try and keep up with the newest medical information on avians, so I do trust in her.

I'm hoping to get more weight put onto my bourke, even if she never gets back up to 44 grams, I'd be happy if she weighed 40 grams! She's thin, but doesn't quite feel underweight (or at least not vastly compared to a different bird that I got that had nearly starved to death).

 

[pomonabill221]

I know it's been a while (about 2 weeks), but I wanted to update on Toots's status.
I have been performing the celation therapy now since 8/7 (2 weeks) and he seems a
little BETTER!

Although he still sleeps with his beak resting on his perch, but that seems to be lessening also. A few times he lost his balance between 5 and 6 a.m. when he is trying to sleep the deepest, but hasn't fallen.

He is alot friendlier to me and likes to be held and massaged on his whole body... loves the attention and probably is still hurting a little.

He is regurgitation to me at night but is NOT vomiting (I know the difference). He doesn't do this any other time, just when I am putting him to bed, so I know it is an affection thing. I don't encourage it though as he sometimes chokes a little, and what does come up is yechey!

I still have the cameras on him and am recording him 24/7 (hard drive space is cheap and I review each night) and want to make sure I catch him if something happens although I don't expect anything to!

His weight hasn't changed and he is eating great! His poops look pretty good for the celation.

He seems to be able to climb and walk around better, but still has a slight limp although less.

Just wanted to let all know....
Bill

BTW... Monica... how is your bourke? I hope she is doing better!
Thinking of you.... and your little girl!

 

[Poppetsmum]

Oh Bill that's great news. I was wondering how Toots was doing so was really pleased to log in and read this. I truly hope he continues to improve.

 

[MonicaMc]

Been wondering how Toot's is! Glad there's some improvement.


My bourke is the same. Not worse and not better. She's put on at least a gram of weight.

 

[Pajarita]

Great news! But, please, help his recuperation with some aloe vera juice and milk thistle extract in his water.

 

[MonicaMc]

Aloe vera... wonder if a detox might help?

I'll probably be taking my bourke back to an a-vet (not sure if I want to drive out to my current a-vet or have a new vet that I've never been to before take a look at her) since she is still having nose problems and I want to make sure that there is nothing else I really can do for her. If there is something else that could help, I want to do it!

 

[Pajarita]

That's exactly what aloe vera does: detox. I put all new bird through a detox treatment when they first come. This constitutes of aloe vera juice (from inner filet and juice not gel) in their water (2/3 water - 1/3 aloe vera) plus milk thistle and dandelion root liquid extract, lemon juice and wild flower honey. To their soft food I add: milk thistle, dandelion root, alfalfa, methionine, cysteine, folic acid, vit B12, vit B6 and quercetin. I also add devil's claw if see any swelling in their joints.

 

[MonicaMc]

There's aloe vera and then there's an aloe vera detox that contains milk thistle, among other things.

Do you eyeball the amounts or use a specific amount?

 

[Pajarita]

I kind of eye-ball it but I always use the same products and when I first started using them, I did calculate it for a bird and then doubled it because the dosage recommended is for maintenance while I want a stronger one for a short period of time. This is for the capsules contents which I use in the soft food. The liquid extracts are different. For example, the liquid milk thistle is usually 75 drops twice or three times a day for humans so I put one entire dosage (and I figured out that 75 drops is about 3/4 of a dropper) in about 4 oz of water because they don't really drink that much to begin with. I use the plain Aloe Vera, the detox formula is much more expensive and I rather control exactly what they get myself.

 

[pomonabill221]

Another update... Toots seems to be doing even better, although slight, but I can tell that he is sleeping without as much "drooping" although he still does.

His latest favorite treat/snack is green beans so along with other vegs. and apple, I give him washed beans and he LOVES them!
He even gets excited after his cealtion and when I pull the bag out of the fridge. This also tells me that his eyesight is still very good.

He still stumbles and lifts his left foot when stationary (although not all the time).

I called DN, and he said that he had gone over the xray again and didn't really see anything bad, although he did say something about the heart, vessels, and kidney but didn't seem too alarmed, but attributed some of what he saw to Toots's age, and the possibillity of permanent kidney damage.

The Dr. was alittle surprised that Toots isn't doing alot better, but we still have about 1 1/2 weeks to go and then we will see what to do next.

Bill

 

[MikeyTN]

Thanks for the update, I hope he keeps on recovering!!!!!

 

[henpecked]

Thanks for the update Bill. Hope Toots continues to improve.

 

[Merlee]

Everybody in our family uses aloe vera, including the birds, cat and dog. It boosts the immune system.

 

[pomonabill221]

Thank you all for your concern!
I will keep updating as things change.