White Front sleeping problem

[pomonabill221]

I know it's been a while, but wanted to update again...

I had lead/zinc blood test done and it was negative (1.1ppm zinc, <0.02 lead)!!! WHEW!!!

He STILL is about the same though.... droops his head when he sleeps, sometimes falls or looses his balance, usually around 5-6 a.m., and still limps and favors his left leg.

Just called DN about his opinion of Toots, and his next options would be an ultrasound to check for atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries).

DN went over the xrays again and thought that he saw some possible heart/artery problems, hence the ultrasound.
Of course that is $500.... UGH!

I called my local vet and asked if they do this as I would have to take Toots to DN at 11 a.m. and leave him there for several hours... DN is a 50 mile round trip adventure, so I would like to get the ultrasound done locally if I can. (probably cheaper too!).

Other than the "funny" sleeping and the limping, Toots appears normal and hasn't really changed.... DANG IT!

DN thought that atherosclerosis is a possibility because of Toots's age, the diet he had (crappy pet store bird mix), the treats I used to give him (tiny cube of mozzarella cheese (the WORST cheese for a bird... who knew???), a couple of almonds a day, a few unsalted peanuts a day) ALL high fat!

IF there is nothing that can be done, I will make Toots's cage as comfortable as I can... I already padded his perch, I put down a folded towel (incase he falls), I give him apple, raw green beans, mini carrots as treats (he LOVES them all!), and he eats Harrisons.
Every night he gets a "full body" massage, and seems to really like it!

Don't know what else I can do.... it's just painful to see Toots suffer, if he is suffering at all (I hope not!).

His cameras are still up and recording.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I truly believe you are doing EVERYTHING and SO much more for your sweet Toots. I also don't think he's in any pain. IMHO he's just feeling "older" - if that makes any sense at all.

WOW, I never knew the occasional piece of cheese and/or a few peanuts could be so detrimental.

Thank you a whole bunch for the update! Been thinking of you guys!!

 

[MonicaMc]

Wendy couldn't have said it better! We know you are doing the best you can for him and will do so with any future considerations as well!

Thanks for the update!

 

[pomonabill221]

Thank you all for your kind words and emotional support.

I have resigned to "live with" Toots's sleeping problem, and I don't know if I will continue with the sonogram... after all, sure we may find out that Toots has atherosclerosis, but what else can be done?

I guess I should get a sonogram done just to make sure, and then go from there.

One good thing is that there is no lead/zinc poisoning! and the chelation therapy seemed to work as his uric acid is down to 5.6 where DN likes to see it.

Yes, maybe he is alot older than I think and his age and lousy past diet has caught up with him. I will have to make some changes to his cage so he can sleep better as he isn't getting very good rest at night, always waking up... poor guy!

Don't know if anyone has checked out DN's website (thebirdclinic dot com), but he has alot of resources in PDF form explaining the effects of cheese and other stuff.... just something to add to your arsenal of information.

I will keep updates coming as things change/progress... sorry I haven't updated for almost a month and I will try and be more diligent!

Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

I truly believe you are doing EVERYTHING and SO much more for your sweet Toots. I also don't think he's in any pain. IMHO he's just feeling "older" - if that makes any sense at all.

WOW, I never knew the occasional piece of cheese and/or a few peanuts could be so detrimental.

Thank you a whole bunch for the update! Been thinking of you guys!!

Thank you Wendy for your kind thoughts!
I would imagine that if Toots WAS in pain, he would be vocal about it and it would show when he climbed around, but he doesn't so I guess you are correct and he isn't hurting, at least not alot.

Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

Wendy couldn't have said it better! We know you are doing the best you can for him and will do so with any future considerations as well!

Thanks for the update!

You are most welcome Monica!
I just need to make sure that I don't go overboard with tests/tests/tests as this can be stressful and do more harm than good, but I think that DN and my local vet realize that, and they are doing the least amount of testing with the bird and my finances, in mind!

Bill

 

[ShellyBorg]

Had you tried a sleeping cage? I just helped a gal set up a plastic kennel with towels for her 47? year old DYH. He had been falling off his perches. He took a couple nights to settle into the arrangements but now sleep better leaning against the kennel wall. With better night sleep he no longer falls during the day.

 

[pomonabill221]

Had you tried a sleeping cage? I just helped a gal set up a plastic kennel with towels for her 47? year old DYH. He had been falling off his perches. He took a couple nights to settle into the arrangements but now sleep better leaning against the kennel wall. With better night sleep he no longer falls during the day.

No I haven't tried one...
What are they like?

Bill

 

[ShellyBorg]

Just one of these with a towel on the bottom and running up one wall so he had a soft place to lean.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Petmate-Traditional-Kennel-Small-Light/dp/B000PBP932/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380004117&sr=8-2&keywords=dog+kennel+small]Amazon.com: Petmate Traditional Kennel, Small, Light Gray: Pet Supplies[/ame]

 

[MikeyTN]

I used to have to do that with one of my birds in the past. And I've also used aquariums with wire mesh top (basically the ones they use for reptiles). I put bedding inside and cover half the tank with a towel.

 

[pomonabill221]

Thanks for the info.
I'll give something like that a try!

 

[Birdman666]

My BFA when I got her was deathly ill... liver disease.

My vet, DR. SPEERS, BY THE WAY, MEDICAL CENTER FOR BIRDS... one of the best avian vet clinics in the country, said her liver values were so bad, she should have been dead already... Chances were not good for survival.

So I took a page out of Carolyn Swicegood's playbook, and I crammed as much fresh Vitamin A foods, and Aloe Detox into her as she could stand...

TWO MONTHS LATER HER LIVER VALUES WERE WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS... FROM THIS BIRD SHOULD BE DEAD!!! I absolutely had the same results that Carolyn did using this product! I honestly believe it saved her life!

Land of Vos - Wingtips Articles - Aloe for Birdkeepers

The product is called Aloe Detox:

ALOE DETOX-- About a year ago, I wrote an account in an on-line newsletter of an adult female eclectus that I own who became seriously ill. After undergoing every imaginable test and treatment protocol by two veterinarians, no diagnosis could be made and the bird was sent home to be "kept comfortable." In desperation, I went browsing in a health food store with the hope of finding something that might save my beloved bird. Both vets had mentioned liver damage so I decided to try a liver-detoxifying agent called Aloe Detox by Naturade. I was shocked at the immediate response--her appetite returned, she began perching for the first time in weeks and she became responsive to her surroundings again.


After a couple weeks of steady improvement and when she seemed normal again, I took her back to one of the treating vets for blood work. He was pleasantly surprised just to see her alive, and he drew blood for re-testing. He phoned me with the results of the CBC and said "If I had not drawn the blood myself, I would not believe that it came from the same bird. All of her liver values are completely normal!"

In hindsight, I wish that I had kept a log of all her treatments, including the Aloe Detox, but the dosage that I used was, at best, unscientific, being simply all that I could get into her. I made her drinking water half Aloe Detox, soaked her bird bread in it, and put it on everything that she would eat. Being a non-toxic product, I felt that there was no danger of overdosing her. Due to the serious nature of her condition, there was nothing to lose.

Through the internet and by word of mouth, Aloe Detox has become popular with quite a few Avian vets in the U.S. and has been credited with saving many birds, which is most gratifying to me. I think that it should be an integral part of all Avian first-aid kits.

Product description: NATURADE Detoxifying Formula, Double Strength Aloe Vera Gel (200:1) with Aloe Pulp and Natural Herbal Blend: Milk Thistle, Burdock, Dandelion, Echinacea, Green Tea, Red Clover and Blue Cohosh. Cost: $15 per quart. Where to buy: health food stores or NATURADE web site at: http://www.naturade.com/products/specialty/detox.htm
Dr. Greg Harrison, Avian vet of Lake Worth, Florida, also recommends Aloe Vera. In his book, Avian Medicine, Principles and Application, he makes the following recommendation: George's Aloe Vera (Warren Laboratories) Available as a lotion for topical application on pruritic lesions or as a liquid for oral administration. Solution for treating pruritic skin lesions is made by mixing one-half ounce of Aloe Vera oral liquid with one teaspoon of Penetran, two drops of Woolite and one pint of water."

 

[pomonabill221]

Well just got back from the vets and the ultrasound results are great!
Here is what the conclusion report says:

There are no significant morpholigic of doppler flow abnormalities visualized at the time. The left ventricular myocardial contractility is normal and measures approximately 43%. The liver sonographically appears low normal to slightly small in size and the liver parenchymal architecture is homogeneous and normal in echogenicty.

WOW what a mouthful! What it all boils down to is that Toots's heart/liver look good!
The diagnosis reads: Unremarkable heart findings at this time and the liver findings could be a normal anatomic variant.

So the next thing is to wait one month, see if Toots gets better, then decide if we need another xray to see if the "spot" is still there, and if it is, $$$$$$ surgery (DN's "suck and flush").

I am very happy that his uric acid is down (the chelation worked), his weight is staying between 214 - 207 gm., he is eating very well, his poops look great, he does NOT have heart problems (as far as the ultrasound goes), BUT he is still sleeping wrong!
DANG IT!!!!

Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

Another update...
Toots really has not improved.
He still sleeps ALOT, stumbles around, limps, droops his head when he sleeps, and falls around 5-6 a.m. almost every morning when he is trying to sleep.
He is eating just fine, loves red grapes/string beans/carrots, his poops look good and he loves his nightly "massage".
It's just the weakness!!! I am going to call the vet this week and see what he says although everything we have tried doesn't seem to work and the ultrasound/xrays don't show anything unusual except the one piece of metal a couple of months ago.

He will probably want to xray again to see if anything has changed... my guess.

I'm at a loss and I hate to see Toots suffer and not get good rest.....

Just wanted to let everyone know what is going on as it has been a while.

Bill

 

[JerseyWendy]

Thanks so much for the update, Bill. Been wondering about the Toots.

Is it possible he is just aging? I know not all people age at the same pace, some have ailments, some don't. Perhaps as long as he's eating fine and pooping fine, let him just live out the rest of his days? I don't think he's suffering. I don't think a bird that is in distress would eat as heartily as Toots. Hey, he may be with you for MANY MANY more years.

 

[pomonabill221]

Thank you all for your concern!
I called the vet and the next thing he wants is another xray to see if the bad stuff is still in Toots's gizzard. I kinda want to know also.
I sure hope that it is clear though! Otherwise, DNimitz would want to do the $urgery! OUI!
The appt. for the xray is on 11/4 so we'll see what DOESN'T show up! Let's hope!

I asked about "just being old" and he didn't think that was the reason... it does seem like Toots is sleeping just a TINY bit better, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions YET.

I don't think he is suffering either... he eats great, he loves his green beans/carrots/"crunchy" (a raw piece of pasta), he loves his massage at night, he likes to be on my shoulder (sometimes).... STRANGE!!!
I'll let everyone know what the xray shows.

Bill

 

[MonicaMc]

I hope the x-ray brings great results!!!!!

 

[Jumpingtadpoles]

Just reading this thread...
Earlier this year I changed my diet completely. But within a few week I started to break out, had water retention, and generally felt like crap. So I read why. I was eating 60% vegan, cut all processed foods and was juicing every single morning.
My body was trying to detox. But because I wasn't supplying extra fats and oils my liver was reabsorbing the toxins and making me sicker. Over time my liver would have coped but I read that adding aloe, or chia seeds would help my liver. I hydrate the chia though, which would be important for birds so you don't kill them like dry rice can....
Chia also are considered a super food because the amount of nutrition in them, and I imagine it would be good for birds too .
With the sleeping kennel, do you put it in the cage?
I'm not really familiar with the idea of senior parrot care, but I have been wondering what it entails...

 

[pomonabill221]

Well... finally I had the surgery done (at the cost of $2500 !!) but I think we got it FINALLY!!!

Poor Toots and all the stuff he has been through! Xrays, Chelation, meds, xrays, blood tests, did I mention Xrays?

The latest Xrays (before surgery) showed that the thing in his gizzard was still there, so we did the "flush and suck" surgery and from what we saw in the xrays (after surgery), the object was GONE!!!

The Dr. took several xrays at different angels just to make sure.

He didn't see it in what came out unfortunately, so we don't know what it was (dang it!), but the Dr. was more concerned that it was no where to be found!

It was done Friday 12/6 after the vets office had closed, he called me at 8 p.m. with the results (minus the xrays) and let me know how things went.

Then I went and talked to the Dr. on Saturday 12/7 and he spent about 1 hour talking to me. I recorded it as I always do, just to make sure I get all the info.

Toots IS SLEEPING BETTER AND IS NOT DOING THE "LEANING" THING.
He is standing balanced on both AND one foot... something he hasn't done in MONTHS!! He also tucked his beak alot more, but still not like "normal", but heck, it's only been 2 days!

He goes back in 2 weeks to get the stitches removed.

MAN am I GLAD I did it! It really seems to have worked!!! I need to give Toots more time to improve, but the initial change is GREAT!! I just hope I am not jumping the gun and assuming that he is better, so I am trying to temper my "joy". Only time will tell!

Finally some GOOD news and improvement!!!

I'll update things as time progresses...

Bill

 

[GaryBV]

Bill I am so happy for you and Toots. I very much admire all the efforts and the lengths you have gone too to ensure the health of Toots. She could not have a better dad than you. Wishing you all the best with her recovery.