White Front sleeping problem

[SandyBee]

I too wish you the best as I have read this thread with interest.
Quality of life means more than quantity and as you face the challenges and decisions ahead as long as you remember that you will make the right choices.
Please keep us updated!!

 

[pomonabill221]

I too wish you the best as I have read this thread with interest.
Quality of life means more than quantity and as you face the challenges and decisions ahead as long as you remember that you will make the right choices.
Please keep us updated!!

Yes SandyBee, you hit the nail on the head!
Quality means more than quantity, and right now, I think Toots is inbetween the two.
Monday's bloodwork and a serious talk with my vet will really make the decision alot easier to make.
Right now, we really don't know the full story so we'll see.
I will keep all updated!
Thank You.... Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

Another update...
Today (Monday) we went to the vets and had blood drawn for Avian Basic profile and Borna Eliza (even though the test is a hit or miss... still thought I should cover all bases).
BUT the total bill was $316!! OUCH!, but my baby is worth at least trying to find what's going on...
The vet and I had a good talk about pros and cons of the test.. she wanted to make sure that I knew of the false results that can happen.
The basic profile should tell us, in particular, if his white cell count is hi/low/changed, and the condition of his organs.
FYI... my vet's name is Dr. Ann McDowell and I like her frank and open communication, although there is one staff member that REALLY needs an attitude adjustment! That is the reason I left about 5 years ago, but I like the doctor so I came back. I may let the other attitude person know that she needs to get it under control or more people are going to leave, like me!
Anyway... the results should be back either tomorrow or Wednesday and I will let everyone know.

 

[Mayden]

Another update...
Today (Monday) we went to the vets and had blood drawn for Avian Basic profile and Borna Eliza (even though the test is a hit or miss... still thought I should cover all bases).
BUT the total bill was $316!! OUCH!, but my baby is worth at least trying to find what's going on...
The vet and I had a good talk about pros and cons of the test.. she wanted to make sure that I knew of the false results that can happen.
The basic profile should tell us, in particular, if his white cell count is hi/low/changed, and the condition of his organs.
FYI... my vet's name is Dr. Ann McDowell and I like her frank and open communication, although there is one staff member that REALLY needs an attitude adjustment! That is the reason I left about 5 years ago, but I like the doctor so I came back. I may let the other attitude person know that she needs to get it under control or more people are going to leave, like me!
Anyway... the results should be back either tomorrow or Wednesday and I will let everyone know.

I say, file an anonymous complaint about that member of staff.

Thank you for the update, I look forward to the results.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Thanks so much for the update, Bill. You and Toots have been in my thoughts and prayers.

As for the assistant with the attitude - let her know, please. Let EVERYONE in the office know about it.

 

[pomonabill221]

Yes, I plan on letting the Dr. know about her... just might be hard to prove it, but I think the Dr. will understand. Don't know if others have complained though and don't want to get on the bad side of the doctor.

 

[pomonabill221]

Thanks so much for the update, Bill. You and Toots have been in my thoughts and prayers.

As for the assistant with the attitude - let her know, please. Let EVERYONE in the office know about it.

Thank You JerseyWendy for keeping us in your thoughts.
It is appreciated.

 

[pomonabill221]

Another update...
Today (Monday) we went to the vets and had blood drawn for Avian Basic profile and Borna Eliza (even though the test is a hit or miss... still thought I should cover all bases).
BUT the total bill was $316!! OUCH!, but my baby is worth at least trying to find what's going on...
The vet and I had a good talk about pros and cons of the test.. she wanted to make sure that I knew of the false results that can happen.
The basic profile should tell us, in particular, if his white cell count is hi/low/changed, and the condition of his organs.
FYI... my vet's name is Dr. Ann McDowell and I like her frank and open communication, although there is one staff member that REALLY needs an attitude adjustment! That is the reason I left about 5 years ago, but I like the doctor so I came back. I may let the other attitude person know that she needs to get it under control or more people are going to leave, like me!
Anyway... the results should be back either tomorrow or Wednesday and I will let everyone know.

I say, file an anonymous complaint about that member of staff.

Thank you for the update, I look forward to the results.

I would love to file a complaint, only problem is they are a very small office and I don't know how to go about it. Maybe mail the doctor directly, although I don't know if the staff "screens" her mail.
I will have to think about this one!

 

[pomonabill221]

Good news as far as the basic profile... everything is normal!!! WHEW!
We are still waiting for the Borna Virus results and Doctor said it takes 5 business days.
She faxed me the paper work and I attached it for your dining and dancing pleasure.

Still leaves the BIG question open as to WHAT IS GOING ON!!!! My Dad said "could he just be old?". I don't think that an old bird would sleep that way though.
Also, he has been doing this kind of behaviour for several years and I have had blood/fecal tests done and they have come back good, although one fecal test showed positive for a common virus (I think) but we wiped it out with meds and it wasn't a big problem.

My thoughts on this (or question for all), is could it be that he isn't getting enough sleep? He only gets about 3-4 hours a night and I think birds are supposed to get 6-8, but the environment in my home is very quiet(I live alone), and the other bird seems fine.... picking at straws here.
Anyway... I will post the borna results when I get them.

Thanks again for all your thoughts!
Bill

 

[JerseyWendy]

Thank you for the attachment, Bill, and indeed GOOD NEWS!!!

Hmm...my fids get between 11-12 hours of sleep every night. I cover their cages.

 

[pomonabill221]

Thank you JerseyWendy! Yes good news, but still leaves a question open....
hhmmm... I will try moving the cage into a spare bedroom so he can get more sleep...
Course' if I went to bed at a decent hour, the problem would be SOLVED! (mass sarcasm here!)

 

[ShellyBorg]

I second the idea of a small sleep cage. I would put a wooded dowel sleep platform in it so there is no falling. When these guys get old, just like humans they do need less sleep but better sleep over all. If you are home to do it watch to see what time nape time is and see if you can move him to the sleep cage just before nape time, and then bring him back out for the rest of the day after nap.

 

[pomonabill221]

HHmmm... Shelly... that sounds like a good idea!
I will make up his travel cage (a smaller cage) and put it in my spare bedroom away from activity and see what happens.
I know he will be upset because he isn't near the other bird, but I think he will get used to it.
I will put a camera in there and see what/how he acts.
Nap time is usually mid afternoon so I will move him then and see.
Thank you for the great suggestion!

 

[JerseyWendy]

Bill, how is Toots doing???

 

[pomonabill221]

Well... I THINK he is slowly getting worse unfortunately... He really "wraps" himself around his perch when he sleeps and seems to be "stumbling" a little more than before, but that could just be me...

He doesn't sleep very well as he keeps waking up and he has fallen a couple of times (only once a night for the last week BUT only on two different occasions... it isn't a nightly thing.) It seems like his feet slide around on his perch because he is "slouching" so much, his balance is different so his footing is not right. He has started to stand and sleep on the padding that I made for his perch sometimes.

I tried Metacam again the other night, and it didn't seem to make a difference... shouldn't I see a change right away or does it require several doses (days) to take effect? I thought it was pretty much immediate..

I haven't gotten the Borna Elvira virus report yet, but it should be any day now... although the test has a high false response rate (positive or negative).

His eating/pooping is great, he drinks water, he is pretty vocal during the day and seems to climb around although not like he used to.

When he does settle down, his left foot immediately is lifted up (retracts) and he has been standing on his right foot. When he perches, there is defenatley a difference in his grip between his left and right, the left is much "weaker" than the right.

I just don't know what to do... as far as I can tell, I have done all the tests that would show anything (except the Borna virus test), and the xray, and they all look good?!?!?!?! I just don't want him to be in pain or suffer, and I don't think pumping him with meds (that don't seem to work), is the way either, UNLESS we find something obscure that we have been missing... I HOPE so!

He also still loves his tiny cube of mozzarlla cheese (low moisture, part skim mild.. about 1/4" inch cube), his unsalted almond, his raw pasta and his Harrison's pellets.
So I don't know what else to say or where to go from here.... I am getting very frustrated not knowing what is wrong or what to do for my guy...

My dad said "maybe he is just old??" I don't think so because he doesn't sleep "normally"... could this be possible that he is just old???
I doubt it because this came on rather quick (at least I noticed it about May'ish) and took him for blood work, did the meds, and no improvement... I just don't know.

I might add that he has had sleeping problems for a couple of years, maybe more.... he would tuck his beak, stand on one foot, and wind up almost "laying down" on his perch or leaning to his left, but not the extent of slouching and dropping his head and wrapping around his perch. Always to his left though!!! a possible clue?? don't know. Have had many blood tests and other xray but nothing was out of the ordinary and blood looked good...

Thank You all for your concern... it does help!
Bill

 

[ShellyBorg]

Ask the vet about if there is a chance he had a stroke.

 

[pomonabill221]

I think I already did but when I speak to the vet when the test results come in, I will ask again.
I think there would have been some "markers" in the blood work as well, but don't know for sure.
Thanks for the idea!
Like I said though, his sleeping "anomaly" has been going on for several years, but has just become more drastic the last couple of months, so I don't know, but I am open to any suggestions/ideas that anyone has!
Thank You
Bill

 

[ShellyBorg]

I did some reading in my avian care book. What is his diet like?

The balance and sleepy are symptoms of a vit deficiency along with some sicknesses. So often the vets are looking for a sickness they may miss a vit issue. Blood work can show up some low vit levels.

 

[pomonabill221]

His diet consists of Harrison's pellets as the only/main food.
He does get treats: no more than 1/4 inch cube of low moisture, part skim milk mozzarella cheese, 1-2 plain almonds, a couple of raw pasta.
I also make both of my guys some vegetables (corn, carrots, green beans, peas) and leave them in their cages no more than 12 hours. This is not very frequent though, so their main diet is the Harrison's.
Toots's harrisons is not the high potency, but I was giving him the high potency... maybe I should get some of that instead of the "regular"...

That is another thing I will ask the vet... about vit defeciencies that he might have. (probably does since his diet isn't that good, but from what I have read about Harrison's additional food shouldn't be given, don't know though).

WOW... thanks for your help and research!
Bill

 

[pomonabill221]

Since I have one of my security cameras on Toots, if anyone would like to log into my system and take a look, let me know and I can setup a user/password for the camera (NO "weird" stuff... guaranteed!)
Depending on the browser you use, you may be asked to install an ActiveX component and it will be from Spectrum Software (Blue Iris).
Let me know and I will get you the link and login info privately.