possibly laying an egg?

[noodles123]

You are a good bird mom! I totally get it though. It is nice to finally feel justified in so-called "paranoia"---people just don't get it! You did the right thing and she is alive because of you! SO sorry your week has been so awful. My cockatoo had blood work done after her bedtime yesterday and that felt like a dark cloud hanging over my head all week leading up to the appointment...can't imagine a surgery. Your baby made it through though and that is HUGE!

 

[SunnyGirl]

hope your Too is ok <3 why did you have to get his blood checked?


I'm picking up Sunny today late afternoon, I'll get enough meds to take home and all the info I'll need and even mum is coming with me... it seem like she finally understood the whole situation and I'm really happy about that, even gramps asks about the fluff (with the budgies he hardly even registered that we actually had any animal at home)...

 

[EllenD]

Awe, it's good that your mom actually cares that much even though you're not a kid anymore...Did you let her read the page of people posting about the "Huts" killing their birds? I understand why it's suddenly weird finding that out, it's the typical reaction, like "How could a little fuzzy hut made for birds actually kill thousands of birds and cause them to lay eggs?" The problem really is that even the pet-supply companies don't understand birds/parrots, they think they're similar to dogs or cats and they make products accordingly..Any pet supply company who had actually done any research about parrots/birds or who had an education in Avian Medicine and Behavior would NEVER manufacture and sell any type of "box" type place to be placed inside of their cages!!! That's one of the first things I learned in graduate school when studying Avian Medicine and Behavior, that "Small, enclosed places=NEST!" That's how they taught it, that all a bird's brain thinks when they get inside or underneath something like that is "Nest", and their sex-hormones go nuts. Avian Specialists ask that question up-front when trying to get to the bottom of a pet bird with behavior issues or chronic egg-laying, they'll typically say "Describe their cage to me"...So it's just a learning curve...

I know you love your bird very much and this whole thing has been horribly scary for you, and I would never want you to lose her for any reason prematurely, but especially not because of something that is totally preventable and that you were warned about...Unfortunately that happens quite often, we warn people about the "Huts" or to not sleep with their birds in their beds at night, and they say something like "I appreciate that but he's had the Hut for years and he's fine", or "We've been sleeping together for years and we're fine, we have a system", or something similar...Then a month later their bird is dead, so not only do they have to deal with their bird being gone, but from something they were fully warned and educated about...So you did the smart thing and made the responsible and healthy decision for your bird...

I think you'll be quite surprised about how well your bird will be doing when you pick her up, and how totally "uneffected" by this surgery she will be, as well as how quickly she will heal. Don't be surprised if she's already flying, climbing up and down her cage, playing, rolling around on her back, etc. They heal extremely quickly and are not effected by these kinds of things like people are AT ALL....They get over the first 24-48 hours after a major surgery like this and it's like it didn't even happen...I've had my abdominal-wall cut wide open 3 different times, once for a total hysterectomy/bi-lateral salpingo-oopherectomy, and this all happened between the ages of 28-33, so it's not like I was old and fragile or in horrible shape...And each time I had to have my significant other, my mom, or a friend actually move-in to my house and help me just to stand-up and get to the bathroom! Each time I was told to take 6-8 weeks off of work, and I actually had to take 4-6 each time because I couldn't move without screaming!!! Now watch your little Sunny come home after having her abdomen split wide open, all the muscles cut, and she'll be like nothing happened after 3 days...They are amazing...

Keep us posted on how she is and how she's doing when you bring her home today...I'm so glad this ended well, it's nice to have a happy ending to a serious medical issue...

 

[SunnyGirl]

well her english is not really that good and it's a lot to translate but yeah, I told her... had to stop reading after a few comments though, I was about to throw up

well the surgery was done monday evening so it's been 2 nights and half a day now... I still put that half-box on the bottom of the cage, if she seems ok and wants to climb I won't stop her and will take it directly out again... I'm home every day the whole day this month anyway so I can always be there and see how she's doing so we can go at her pace on this...
I was schocke when the ver told me that he even had to break the egg to get it out of the bird anyway even after cutting her open I kind of wanted the egg whole, but whatever... I need to gett the ex-way pics and will post them too, hope that's allowed on the site? will deffintelly keep you posted on how she's doing at home

I really should be on this forum more often, you people are amazing :heart:

 

[EllenD]

Yes, it's totally fine to post those pics...And it's not at all unusual for the to have to break the egg to get it out, and often times, depending on the situation, that's a much better way of doing it...The reason he did it this way instead of removing the egg whole is because due to where the egg was in the Oviduct he would have had to open her up much more extensively to get it out whole, which would mean MORE BLEEDING (not to mention that the chances of the egg cracking/breaking and leaking/spilling into the bird's belly while trying to remove it whole and intact are very high anyway, so it's really not the safest way to do it at all in the first place, regardless of where the egg is in the Oviduct or even if it's in the Coelomic Cavity). And it's awesome that your Vet is obviously an experienced Avian Surgeon and he knew to do it this way, because he knew that every little drop of blood a bird loses is devastating...

Most bird-owners fear their birds having surgery because of the general-anesthesia; they know that birds often die while under or while coming-out of the general-anesthesia, and it scares them to death...And while it's true that many birds die during surgery due to the general-anesthesia, what they don't know is that it is actually the #2 most-common reason that birds die from having surgery, with the #1 reason that birds often die during or after surgery being Blood-Loss!!! Most people, even experienced bird/parrot owners don't realize this or even think about blood-loss as being the most serious complication that kills birds during surgical procedures, but it's true. Even the largest Macaws often die during surgery due to blood-loss, and we're talking a fraction of the average blood-loss that people have during most surgical procedures...So with the much smaller birds you can imagine just how little blood they can afford to lose...we're talking literally a few Teaspoons and they're dead...So this is the main reason that your Avian Vet/Surgeon wisely chose to implode the egg and then remove it from the smaller initial incision into the Oviduct, rather than making the the incision much larger in order to remove the egg whole and intact...And just as an FYI, usually they don't actually "break" the egg, because this would allow the yolk and the rest of the contents (including a lot of bacteria) to spill into the Oviduct and out into the Peritoneum, and this often results in Peritonitis after surgery, which very often turns into Sepsis, which is usually fatal...So instead of actually "breaking" the egg while it's still inside of the Oviduct, they actually just make a small hole in the part of the eggshell that is covering the "Air-Space" inside of the egg (instead of making the hole in a section of the eggshell where the yolk and liquid contents are sitting; the Air-Space in the egg is easily visible using a penlight), and then they slowly "chip" or "shave" it so that it gradually becomes larger and larger, until the hole is large enough that they can insert the suction-wand into the egg or over the hole, then they suck out all of the contents of the egg so that it cannot leak or spill out into the bird's body, and once the egg is completely empty they then crack the remaining dry-eggshell into several pieces and remove them one by one...So it's not like the Surgeon just "breaks" the egg open while it's inside your bird and full of yolk and bacteria, and then they vacuum out your bird, lol...It's a very common procedure that is done every single day and is very standard for Avian Surgeons to be taught early in their Veterinary Medical education (as well as Reptile/Amphibian Vets, they have to do the same procedure in egg-bound lizards, snakes, turtles, and tortoises all the time)...

 

[SunnyGirl]

ok, fluff is home :heart: :heart:

we walked into the clinic and said hello to a nurse and she already heard us and started calling... she immediatelly jumped into my hand and wouldn't let anyone touch her for at least 10 minutes, even didn't want to step up, just cuddled under my chin and fluffed up all happy!! I'm so so so relieved! she looks so well, she has a featherless butt and a scary scar, her feathers are kind of matte and lifeless, but that will change once we get her on good food and cuddles again

the first thing she did when we got home and out of the travel cage was to hop on the table and demand a banana she ate more banana than normal, wanted some of her regular food, banana again, other food, banana and she just ate and ate and ate like a pig... I put her in the cage and she's very confused about the sleeping hut being gone and now she's waddling up and down those perches looking for it and probably figuring out how she's going to sleep... the box isn't needed at all, I didn't really expect her to be this well and running around, but I am very happy it's like this!

this was monday before the surgery:

today when we got there:

the meshed up egg, pencil for scale:

and the ex-ray (just the photo of it, but it's enough)... you can see the huge egg

she didn't let me take a pic of her stitches though...

 

[ChristaNL]

With an egg that size she could have been a kiwi!


Glad she is back where she belongs

 

[Jen5200]

Oh my - such good news! And she looks so darned happy to see you . Don’t worry about the missing hut, mine were confused for a day or two but they figured out where they wanted to sleep and got on with it and we’ve never looked back. That is a giant egg, and I’m so glad it was removed successfully. So happy for you!

 

[EllenD]

Wow, yeah she wasn't passing that egg!!! She looks great! I told you you'd probably be surprised at how she was acting and how she would already be like it never happened...They are amazing like that...It's like they go through something huge and life-threatening like that, and then 2 days later they're like "What? What's the big deal? I'm fine, let's roll!"

She'll be fine without the "Hut", she knows how to sleep standing-up Trust me when I say she's much better-off without it...You certainly don't want to go through this again...That egg was massive!

And as far as her diet while at the Veterinary Hospital, it's okay, it didn't hurt her and honestly the extra calories, fat, sugar, and protein was good for her and her body needed it while she was going through what she was. going through so she didn't lose a bunch of weight or become malnourished, as they often do...

She's a lucky bird, she has a great owner who loves her and takes great care of her!!!

 

[SunnyGirl]

EllenD, thank you so much for the explanation :heart: I was actually more worried about the wound itself and the blood loss... and yes, he did explain that he didn't just break the whole thing apart but as you said too (made a hole, sucked the contents out and then removed the shell), I was just more shocked about the fact that he couldn't get it out whole... I'm just so happy and relieved that it wen't well and that she's so energetic already

 

[SunnyGirl]

With an egg that size she could have been a kiwi!

well, she is a dinosaur at heart... but yes, it's really huge... I still can't believe it...

 

[SunnyGirl]

Wow, yeah she wasn't passing that egg!!! She looks great! I told you you'd probably be surprised at how she was acting and how she would already be like it never happened...They are amazing like that...It's like they go through something huge and life-threatening like that, and then 2 days later they're like "What? What's the big deal? I'm fine, let's roll!"

She'll be fine without the "Hut", she knows how to sleep standing-up Trust me when I say she's much better-off without it...You certainly don't want to go through this again...That egg was massive!

And as far as her diet while at the Veterinary Hospital, it's okay, it didn't hurt her and honestly the extra calories, fat, sugar, and protein was good for her and her body needed it while she was going through what she was. going through so she didn't lose a bunch of weight or become malnourished, as they often do...

She's a lucky bird, she has a great owner who loves her and takes great care of her!!!

yeah, no wonder she had such problems... on the first ex-ray the egg wasn't this big, the pic is from the last ex-ray before the surgery... and no, deffinitelly not wanting to have anything like this happen again... she's getting those implants next season!

and yes, I am shocked at how quich she bounced back to normal but I love it, it just shows that she is a healthy fluff!!

well seeds and sunflowers do give lots of energy and they do need it, but the vet agreed that it would be good to feed them something wlse with the seeds too... the nurses did a good job about finding and ordering different kinds of pellets and whatnot for different breeds and not just depending on 'small, medium, big bird'

thank you <3

 

[Aratingettar]

Glad you have your beloved fluff back home And it's great news she's curious and active. Finally, your uncertainity is over.
You can be proud of yourself, what a good parront you are. You've been determined to act, not looking for an excuse to leave things as they are.

Kudos to you, and let Sunny heal her wounds instantly!

 

[Flboy]

This is so awesome that it turned out well! Something from this that could be added to the thread on total cost of ownership, would you mind sharing your vet expenses?

 

[noodles123]

hope your Too is ok <3 why did you have to get his blood checked?


I'm picking up Sunny today late afternoon, I'll get enough meds to take home and all the info I'll need and even mum is coming with me... it seem like she finally understood the whole situation and I'm really happy about that, even gramps asks about the fluff (with the budgies he hardly even registered that we actually had any animal at home)...

So glad she is looking so healthy and happy to see you! I got Noodles' blood tested because she has an abnormally growing feather under her wing (recent). I decided to get a PBFD test done because she has a sketchy history. I am very nervous about getting the results back.

 

[Laurasea]

So happy to catch up!!! Yippie!! So glad sh is home!!! So glad you got her in to the vets!!! That x-ray shows what we always tell people who might have an egg bound bird. I'm so glad you found us, and asked questions, abd trusted yourself, even though at first your family didn't. My you and Sunny have a very long and healthy, happy life together. The two if you have made my night!!! All grins here!!

 

[SunnyGirl]

This is so awesome that it turned out well! Something from this that could be added to the thread on total cost of ownership, would you mind sharing your vet expenses?

thank you

well the prices would probably be different here than where you're from, but sure...

*I got her for 500eur (hand reared and from the only breeder that had suns in the country at that time)
* cage was 120usd (on sale)
*every few months I order toys for about 100eur (online so this includes shipping costs - she looooves the birdie kabobs from NorthernParrots) - but I really need to start making more of my own...
* food from the breeder (her favourite) is 15eur per 1kg (I mostly buy like 5kg and freeze)
* Zupreem, Nutriberries, etc (not sure about prices without going to look it up)
* and the vet right now: 150 for the surgery itself + calcium, oxytocin shexpected it to be more...) shots + staying for a week = 280eur (I expected it to be more)
*also the hormone implants to prevent eggs will be 300eur per year...

yes, se does shread that many toys :52: (and that is wirhout any self made toys that are mostly out of cardboart boxes or similar)

yes, such a small fluff costs a fortune once you start to put together how much per month it is, but I don't care, seeing her happy and having her give so much unconditional love back is just worth more than money could ever!!

 

[SunnyGirl]

I got Noodles' blood tested because she has an abnormally growing feather under her wing (recent). I decided to get a PBFD test done because she has a sketchy history. I am very nervous about getting the results back.

hope it turns out fine :heart:

 

[SunnyGirl]

So happy to catch up!!! Yippie!! So glad sh is home!!! So glad you got her in to the vets!!! That x-ray shows what we always tell people who might have an egg bound bird. I'm so glad you found us, and asked questions, abd trusted yourself, even though at first your family didn't. My you and Sunny have a very long and healthy, happy life together. The two if you have made my night!!! All grins here!!

well you can always show my ex-ray pic if you want, might help

she's been all cuddles and fluff this morning, is now sliding up and down a piece of cardboard lol but she is also trying to get under my shirt (she loved to sleep in there) and I'm not letting her... I just worry a bit that she'll start doing something that might make her do stupid things again
she is having a bit of trouble with pooping it seems, needs like 3 tries to get it out... but the vet did fave to make a cut on her intestines a bit too to get to the egg (es far as he explained) so it might be from that... but when she poops it looks ok... a little bit more solid than before, but not wrong...

so... no more hiding under things, no more sleeping hut... I need more suggestions, please


if anone is interested, this is what her belly looks like now:

 

[EllenD]

That's a nice, clean incision and very small as well, so that's good..I've seen them much longer than that for the same surgery, so he did a great job of getting that egg out without any complications and in the least-invasive way possible.

As far as her "pooping issues", that's completely normal as well, and it actually has to do with her abdominal-muscles being cut through and not her intestines...Every time you move any part of your body, even a toe or a finger, your abdominal muscles are involved (why they're called the "core" muscles)...So every motion she makes is causing her some pain, including just simply breathing. And trust me when I say that the most-painful movements after having that done are going to the bathroom (including urinating too), breathing, and the worst for people is sitting up and laying back down...My god does it hurt...And because those muscles are split and then sutured back together, they're actually much weaker than they were prior to having the surgery too...So she'll probably be straining to poop for a while...And don't be surprised if you see her doing something normally, like climbing up her cage-bars, playing, flying, even just walking or rolling onto her back/getting back up, and then you see her suddenly grimace in-pain or hesitate and have trouble doing what she's trying to do, because it's going to be that way for a while. Luckily they heal a lot more quickly than we do, but she'll still be sore in her abdominal muscles for a good month probably, so it's completely normal for her to have some issues moving around or to show some signs of pain when she tries to climb/fly/roll over onto her back and get back up. It's not an emergency or anything, she's just going to naturally be sore for a while until the sutures inside her abdominal muscles dissolve and the muscles get their strength back again..

As long as you don't see any blood in her droppings (if they appear red or very black), and you don't see any red-streaking, swelling, or drainage/seeping from her incision, and her incision doesn't start smelling badly, she's fine.