Parrot with the longest life expectancy

[SilverSage]

I think several of us feel like you are asking for info that is not available as well as refusing to have an honest discussion with us including why you are interested. It’s confusing. It’s clear that we need many many more years of data to definitively answer the question you pose. I’m with Scott; where is this conversation going?


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[niraj]

I think several of us feel like you are asking for info that is not available as well as refusing to have an honest discussion with us including why you are interested. It’s confusing. It’s clear that we need many many more years of data to definitively answer the question you pose. I’m with Scott; where is this conversation going?


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There cannot be an exact figure about living creatures. But there can always be a range or an estimate from the data available at hand. The links and articles I have posted establish that I am not the first one to start this discussion. Can't we have an academic discussion when we have so many people in the forum having quite a bit of first hand experience? I think this thread has taken the earlier articles one step forward because earlier articles had less of first hand information and relied more on arbitrary anecdotes. I think if this discussion continues in a healthy way with more members sharing their experience and reliable information, we can arrive at a reasonably accurate answer.

 

[LordTriggs]

Niraj once again can you please just answer our question, if not just stop the question being asked

Why?

 

[SailBoat]

Thank-you, for after all this time, to come to a simple and honest description of what was the underlying reason for this Thread: An Academic Discussion!

The vast majority and likely even more of the membership would have been just as active and just as open had you simply been Honest and Upfront! Your need to 'actively hide' the 'why' from the membership has stolen from this exchange. Cheapened it, if you will with your low opinion of us.

It saddens me that you think so very little of us that if we somehow knew that this Thread was a Academic Discussion, that we would not have been as open, honest or had not participated.

Take a long and extensive look at what you have stolen from your Thread, by the simple lack of honesty.



"There cannot be an exact figure about living creatures. But there can always be a range or an estimate from the data available at hand. The links and articles I have posted establish that I am not the first one to start this discussion. Can't we have an academic discussion when we have so many people in the forum having quite a bit of first hand experience? I think this thread has taken the earlier articles one step forward because earlier articles had less of first hand information and relied more on arbitrary anecdotes. I think if this discussion continues in a healthy way with more members sharing their experience and reliable information, we can arrive at a reasonably accurate answer."

 

[Scott]

Another important factsheet about lifespan of Macaws which states that it is a myth that Macaws live for 80-100 years.

Green-winged Macaw Fact Sheet

Posting academic and anecdotal records is interesting, but to what end? Are you interested in dialog, and why dodge inquiries from several members?

I would only stick to the topic and won't digress by entering into a personal debate. I am posting links and information only related to the topic.

I think several of us feel like you are asking for info that is not available as well as refusing to have an honest discussion with us including why you are interested. It’s confusing. It’s clear that we need many many more years of data to definitively answer the question you pose. I’m with Scott; where is this conversation going?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There cannot be an exact figure about living creatures. But there can always be a range or an estimate from the data available at hand. The links and articles I have posted establish that I am not the first one to start this discussion. Can't we have an academic discussion when we have so many people in the forum having quite a bit of first hand experience? I think this thread has taken the earlier articles one step forward because earlier articles had less of first hand information and relied more on arbitrary anecdotes. I think if this discussion continues in a healthy way with more members sharing their experience and reliable information, we can arrive at a reasonably accurate answer.

Academic discussion is warmly welcomed within this forum, indeed many of us have interest in establishing the range of parrot lifespans. You'll find a conversational style with shared aspirations will elicit the most effective dialog!

 

[niraj]

Thank-you, for after all this time, to come to a simple and honest description of what was the underlying reason for this Thread: An Academic Discussion!

The vast majority and likely even more of the membership would have been just as active and just as open had you simply been Honest and Upfront! Your need to 'actively hide' the 'why' from the membership has stolen from this exchange. Cheapened it, if you will with your low opinion of us.

It saddens me that you think so very little of us that if we somehow knew that this Thread was a Academic Discussion, that we would not have been as open, honest or had not participated.

Take a long and extensive look at what you have stolen from your Thread, by the simple lack of honesty.



"There cannot be an exact figure about living creatures. But there can always be a range or an estimate from the data available at hand. The links and articles I have posted establish that I am not the first one to start this discussion. Can't we have an academic discussion when we have so many people in the forum having quite a bit of first hand experience? I think this thread has taken the earlier articles one step forward because earlier articles had less of first hand information and relied more on arbitrary anecdotes. I think if this discussion continues in a healthy way with more members sharing their experience and reliable information, we can arrive at a reasonably accurate answer."

That's your personal opinion. You are entitled to have your opinion and I am entitled to mine. If you could have put a fraction of the effort you have put in to criticize, in shedding light over the topic instead of all irrelevant things, it might have resulted in a insightful and enlightening discussion.

I reiterate that what you have stated about my thinking of the members is your personal opinion in your personal perspective. I categorically deny it.


I have maintained that I will stick to the topic and not digress, but I am constrained to do so due to your unfair criticism and personal attacks on me.

 

[SilverSage]

Hold on, no one is attacking you in any way. We are a tight community here, and we are confused by your approach. Or at least I am, and we have said so. But no one is attacking you and there was no good reason to lash out at Sailboat.


Most of us have given you all the info we have, ok? If that’s what you wanted, you got it. But you have actually refused to discuss anything, you just want numbers and right now numbers are mostly guesses.


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[niraj]

Hold on, no one is attacking you in any way. We are a tight community here, and we are confused by your approach. Or at least I am, and we have said so. But no one is attacking you and there was no good reason to lash out at Sailboat.


Most of us have given you all the info we have, ok? If that’s what you wanted, you got it. But you have actually refused to discuss anything, you just want numbers and right now numbers are mostly guesses.


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I was constrained to respond due to the charge of dishonesty and thinking low of the members levelled on me which I deny. I dont understand why some people are hell bent upon to turn this discussion into a personal one.

 

[niraj]

The link below is the most comprehensive and scientific analysis of lifespan in parrots I have found thus far. Certainly an incredible effort !

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289156/

 

[niraj]

The link below has the summary of the voluminous data collected and compiled.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289156/table/T2/

 

[Scott]

The link below is the most comprehensive and scientific analysis of lifespan in parrots I have found thus far. Certainly an incredible effort !

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289156/

This statement is a bit chilling: "While a few individual parrots have lived for nearly a century, the majority of parrots in captivity did not live much beyond two decades. Even when accounting for juvenile mortality, only 30% of the 260 species" The presumption is humans are not generally adept hosts to our feathered companions.

 

[Scott]

Thank-you, for after all this time, to come to a simple and honest description of what was the underlying reason for this Thread: An Academic Discussion!

The vast majority and likely even more of the membership would have been just as active and just as open had you simply been Honest and Upfront! Your need to 'actively hide' the 'why' from the membership has stolen from this exchange. Cheapened it, if you will with your low opinion of us.

It saddens me that you think so very little of us that if we somehow knew that this Thread was a Academic Discussion, that we would not have been as open, honest or had not participated.

Take a long and extensive look at what you have stolen from your Thread, by the simple lack of honesty.



"There cannot be an exact figure about living creatures. But there can always be a range or an estimate from the data available at hand. The links and articles I have posted establish that I am not the first one to start this discussion. Can't we have an academic discussion when we have so many people in the forum having quite a bit of first hand experience? I think this thread has taken the earlier articles one step forward because earlier articles had less of first hand information and relied more on arbitrary anecdotes. I think if this discussion continues in a healthy way with more members sharing their experience and reliable information, we can arrive at a reasonably accurate answer."

That's your personal opinion. You are entitled to have your opinion and I am entitled to mine. If you could have put a fraction of the effort you have put in to criticize, in shedding light over the topic instead of all irrelevant things, it might have resulted in a insightful and enlightening discussion.

I reiterate that what you have stated about my thinking of the members is your personal opinion in your personal perspective. I categorically deny it.


I have maintained that I will stick to the topic and not digress, but I am constrained to do so due to your unfair criticism and personal attacks on me.

I'm sorry, but a plurality of members have repeatedly and kindly asked you to elaborate the motive(s) for this thread. It is a natural and conversational curiosity you seemed adamant to ignore. So, let us try this again in the spirit of starting anew: Are you conducting original research, merely interested in an academic discussion, and/or motivated to acquire a companion parrot, or something else?

 

[Scott]

The link below has the summary of the voluminous data collected and compiled.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289156/table/T2/

Interesting table of results!

I was dismayed to see Goffins Cockatoos scoring a low maximal of 30.39 years. I have two wild-caught Goffins documented well in excess of 40 years and going very strong.

 

[niraj]

Thank-you, for after all this time, to come to a simple and honest description of what was the underlying reason for this Thread: An Academic Discussion!

The vast majority and likely even more of the membership would have been just as active and just as open had you simply been Honest and Upfront! Your need to 'actively hide' the 'why' from the membership has stolen from this exchange. Cheapened it, if you will with your low opinion of us.

It saddens me that you think so very little of us that if we somehow knew that this Thread was a Academic Discussion, that we would not have been as open, honest or had not participated.

Take a long and extensive look at what you have stolen from your Thread, by the simple lack of honesty.



"There cannot be an exact figure about living creatures. But there can always be a range or an estimate from the data available at hand. The links and articles I have posted establish that I am not the first one to start this discussion. Can't we have an academic discussion when we have so many people in the forum having quite a bit of first hand experience? I think this thread has taken the earlier articles one step forward because earlier articles had less of first hand information and relied more on arbitrary anecdotes. I think if this discussion continues in a healthy way with more members sharing their experience and reliable information, we can arrive at a reasonably accurate answer."

That's your personal opinion. You are entitled to have your opinion and I am entitled to mine. If you could have put a fraction of the effort you have put in to criticize, in shedding light over the topic instead of all irrelevant things, it might have resulted in a insightful and enlightening discussion.

I reiterate that what you have stated about my thinking of the members is your personal opinion in your personal perspective. I categorically deny it.


I have maintained that I will stick to the topic and not digress, but I am constrained to do so due to your unfair criticism and personal attacks on me.

I'm sorry, but a plurality of members have repeatedly and kindly asked you to elaborate the motive(s) for this thread. It is a natural and conversational curiosity you seemed adamant to ignore. So, let us try this again in the spirit of starting anew: Are you conducting original research, merely interested in an academic discussion, and/or motivated to acquire a companion parrot, or something else?

As stated earlier, I am interested in an academic discussion.

 

[LordTriggs]

That's your personal opinion. You are entitled to have your opinion and I am entitled to mine. If you could have put a fraction of the effort you have put in to criticize, in shedding light over the topic instead of all irrelevant things, it might have resulted in a insightful and enlightening discussion.

I reiterate that what you have stated about my thinking of the members is your personal opinion in your personal perspective. I categorically deny it.


I have maintained that I will stick to the topic and not digress, but I am constrained to do so due to your unfair criticism and personal attacks on me.

I'm sorry, but a plurality of members have repeatedly and kindly asked you to elaborate the motive(s) for this thread. It is a natural and conversational curiosity you seemed adamant to ignore. So, let us try this again in the spirit of starting anew: Are you conducting original research, merely interested in an academic discussion, and/or motivated to acquire a companion parrot, or something else?

As stated earlier, I am interested in an academic discussion.

You didn't state that earlier though, you just ignored people asking the question and carried on posting articles without actually entering a dialogue with people asking a very simple question which could have halved the size of this thread.

Out of curiosity for academic purposes takes this thread on a very different path than if you were looking at a companion or something. On here we deal with a lot of people with odd intentions and scammers looking to make their ads more legit seeming to the general populace as I am sure you can assume some people would. We got people asking about the strangest things like, the least chewing birds, the ones with the least down feathers, most mimicry heck even beak size has been the sole requirement some people have asked in the past so you can see why we were concerned.

Ultimately as stated by others we just plain don't have enough info yet on captive bred parrots. I personally believe that a captive bred U2 or Hycanith Macaw given the top care for the entirety of its life from birth could quite possibly outlive a human by years considering many of these birds can live to nearly a century in our current good but with room for improvement care

 

[SilverSage]

So, in the spirit of academic discussion, what sorts of studies should be done in order to find this out? I feel like it would actually need to be a compilation of individual species studies.

If all the babies of a certain species from multiple breeders (the more the better) that were produced in a 20 year stretch were tracked through their whole lives and necropsies done on each dead bird to eliminate accidental death and focus on natural death, we could get a picture of how long that species was living in captivity in whichever country the study took place. The long time frame of 2 decades should show of lifespan was increasing as our knowledge of avian husbandry increased.


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[niraj]

So, in the spirit of academic discussion, what sorts of studies should be done in order to find this out? I feel like it would actually need to be a compilation of individual species studies.

If all the babies of a certain species from multiple breeders (the more the better) that were produced in a 20 year stretch were tracked through their whole lives and necropsies done on each dead bird to eliminate accidental death and focus on natural death, we could get a picture of how long that species was living in captivity in whichever country the study took place. The long time frame of 2 decades should show of lifespan was increasing as our knowledge of avian husbandry increased.


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Thank you for your suggestion. I think what you have suggested can give a reliable conclusion.

However, what is your opinion about the two research papers I have posted earlier ? They are quite comprehensive. In your opinion, how reliable their conclusions are?

 

[GaleriaGila]

Scott, that is a great resource! (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289156/table/T2/)

It states that the maximum life expectancy for Rickeybirds is 34 years. Creeps me out that he is about 60 days short of that.

I think we've done a good job of sharing informing despite the twists and turns.

In the interest of academic discussion, niraj, may we know a bit about your research... are you just collecting data: how will you analyze/present it? What's its purpose, likely design/analysis of research, if you are planning any, and eventual audience?

I'll take a closer look at those studies you mentioned.

I love experimental design and statistics!


Edit... the articles are intended for very general public information. I like Scott's reference much better.

 

[niraj]

I'm sorry, but a plurality of members have repeatedly and kindly asked you to elaborate the motive(s) for this thread. It is a natural and conversational curiosity you seemed adamant to ignore. So, let us try this again in the spirit of starting anew: Are you conducting original research, merely interested in an academic discussion, and/or motivated to acquire a companion parrot, or something else?

As stated earlier, I am interested in an academic discussion.

You didn't state that earlier though, you just ignored people asking the question and carried on posting articles without actually entering a dialogue with people asking a very simple question which could have halved the size of this thread.

Out of curiosity for academic purposes takes this thread on a very different path than if you were looking at a companion or something. On here we deal with a lot of people with odd intentions and scammers looking to make their ads more legit seeming to the general populace as I am sure you can assume some people would. We got people asking about the strangest things like, the least chewing birds, the ones with the least down feathers, most mimicry heck even beak size has been the sole requirement some people have asked in the past so you can see why we were concerned.

Ultimately as stated by others we just plain don't have enough info yet on captive bred parrots. I personally believe that a captive bred U2 or Hycanith Macaw given the top care for the entirety of its life from birth could quite possibly outlive a human by years considering many of these birds can live to nearly a century in our current good but with room for improvement care

Can you kindly elaborate on your consideration of Umbrella Cockatoo and Hycanith Macaw?

I do agree that larger parrots live longer and Hycanith is the largest of them all. But, the data suggests that the Green winged Macaw is the longest living among Macaws. Among Cockatoos, after Black Palm Cockatoo, Salmon Crested Moluccan Cockatoo and the Sulphur Crested Cockatoos are the largest and considered the longest living as per the data available. It's a close one between the Moluccan and the Sulphur Crested Cockatoo though.

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

Scott, that is a great resource! (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289156/table/T2/)

It states that the maximum life expectancy for Rickeybirds is 34 years. Creeps me out that he is about 60 days short of that.

I think we've done a good job of sharing informing despite the twists and turns.

In the interest of academic discussion, niraj, may we know a bit about your research... are you just collecting data: how will you analyze/present it? What's its purpose, likely design/analysis of research, if you are planning any, and eventual audience?

I'll take a closer look at those studies you mentioned.

I love experimental design and statistics!


Edit... the articles are intended for very general public information. I like Scott's reference much better.

Academic discussion desired? Academic Venus was offered.......... on the half-shell, dude.