Bingo's prognosis is guarded.

[Terry57]

Yup, but only provided it in very tiny amounts to create interest in eating. If they do not eat, they die.

I'd read this awhile back:

"Parrots can eat pasteurized honey because it will have been heated before packing, and the heat kills clostridium botulinum. Unfortunately, it also kills off the goodness found in honey. Honey and parrots aren’t a safe combination. At best, your parrot will consume empty calories; at worst, its life will be in danger. There are safer ways to satisfy a parrot’s sweet tooth."

Here's another one, click here to read the whole article.

"

Is Honey Safe for Parrots?​

It is important to understand that honey is not a staple of a parrot’s diet and should only be an occasional treat due to its high sugar content. Excessive amounts of honey can lead to health issues such as obesity, tooth decay and gastrointestinal issues. In addition, honey may contain botulism spores which can be potentially fatal for birds. It is recommended that if you choose to give honey to your parrot, only stick with no-sugar-added and organic varieties for additional safety precautions.

In general, feed only a small amount of honey at a time or mix it with other food items such as bird-safe fruits or vegetables like apples, bananas, blueberries and spinach. You can also use simple syrup, which is made from 1 part sugar dissolved in 1 part water. If you opt for this recipe, make sure that all the sugar has completely dissolved before serving it to your feathered friend. If possible use pesticide free produce for added safety measures at all times. Keep in mind that some parrot species are more sensitive than others when it comes to food allergies so observe any sudden changes in behavior after eating anything new and consult with your veterinarian as soon as possible if any reactions occur."

I've also seen some articles that say that ALL honey is bad for them.

As long as it's pasteurized, I would use this on my own flock in the way that Steven mentioned if they were in the same situation as Bingo.

 

[ravvlet]

Why on the good lord’s green earth did they accept your appointment for an ultrasound and then try to change it to a CT? That’s a jerk move, I’m kind of pissed off for you. I’d be so stressed and angry.

 

[Terry57]

Got a prescription for that pain med meticam ?
may help him be more comfortable and help reduce swelling.
He is eating some of the oatmeal/baby formula as I type this.
Will give him his first dose of pain med in afternoon out of cage time.

I bet the Metacam will make him more comfortable, for sure. One of my budgies had hurt his leg somehow, and the vet prescribed Metacam for him and it made such a difference. It also calmed him down, which may be comforting to Bingo as well.

 

[wrench13]

Ditto, Salty's taken that before when he hurt his beak, likely sprained it. It seemed to help a lot.

 

[texsize]

I gave some to Pacho on his last night on earth.
It helped him fall asleep peacefully in the end.

 

[Birds lover from Hawaii]

I got a call this morning from the place I WAS going to take Bingo tomorrow.

They wanted to change the game plan from ultrasound to.
CT scan.
Another blood test.
endoscope.
For a total cost of $6,000. 00 US.
I told them my last name is not Musk or Rockefeller.
If I could spend that kind of money and bring home a health bird I might do it even at that cost but this will only find out what's wrong (maybe).
It's quit possible whatever is wrong might not BE fixable.

There is a local vet that already said they can do a CT scan and even recommended it as a next step for a lot less than 6,000.
It was still a lot of money but IDK . I want to talk with my CAV and see what he says about all this.

I am totally speechless and frustrated as you are!! Guess this is what "upselling" technique is about. Just never expect the vet clinics supposed to be a place that is full of animal loving people who may be more passionate over money. Now proved that it is something in the past no longer exists in present world.

On the other hand, a CT scan vs ultrasound or x-ray is probably more useful as they can obtain a much higher level of details. However, they should have discussed with you when you made the appointment.

Being frustrated and angry is not going to help poor Bingo. Please be strong for him and make sure to take good care of yourself too. At least you have a CAV to consult with so take a deep breath, calm down and figure out what the next step should be.

 

[ravvlet]

I am totally speechless and frustrated as you are!! Guess this is what "upselling" technique is about. Just never expect the vet clinics supposed to be a place that is full of animal loving people who may be more passionate over money. Now proved that it is something in the past no longer exists in present world.

On the other hand, a CT scan vs ultrasound or x-ray is probably more useful as they can obtain a much higher level of details. However, they should have discussed with you when you made the appointment.

Being frustrated and angry is not going to help poor Bingo. Please be strong for him and make sure to take good care of yourself too. At least you have a CAV to consult with so take a deep breath, calm down and figure out what the next step should be.

Huge agree. I don’t understand this anyway, as someone who has had both ultrasounds & a CT - the CT was very much treated as a last resort. You can get plenty of good data from an ultrasound about organ size, tissue abnormalities, and foreign masses. A CT in my experience has been for when they’re really not sure what’s wrong and want to throw the kitchen sink at a problem, or they know what the problem is and need a detailed image without exploratory surgery.

This is clearly the former and not the latter, and asking you to jump straight to a CT instead of trying as many lower cost options as possible seems scummy.

 

[texsize]

Huge agree. I don’t understand this anyway, as someone who has had both ultrasounds & a CT - the CT was very much treated as a last resort. You can get plenty of good data from an ultrasound about organ size, tissue abnormalities, and foreign masses. A CT in my experience has been for when they’re really not sure what’s wrong and want to throw the kitchen sink at a problem, or they know what the problem is and need a detailed image without exploratory surgery.

This is clearly the former and not the latter, and asking you to jump straight to a CT instead of trying as many lower cost options as possible seems scummy.

But the blood test too….
They have the results of the early blood test.
They just want a NEW one, not that there is anything wrong with the previous one. Not that the blood test would check for other things the first one missed or something.
That strikes me as just padding the bill

But at least they DID call first and didn’t spring this on me when I showed up in the morning.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Huge agree. I don’t understand this anyway, as someone who has had both ultrasounds & a CT - the CT was very much treated as a last resort. You can get plenty of good data from an ultrasound about organ size, tissue abnormalities, and foreign masses. A CT in my experience has been for when they’re really not sure what’s wrong and want to throw the kitchen sink at a problem, or they know what the problem is and need a detailed image without exploratory surgery.

This is clearly the former and not the latter, and asking you to jump straight to a CT instead of trying as many lower cost options as possible seems scummy.

What could be gained by performing a CT on a parrot? Spending thousands of dollars trying to diagnose a very sick parrot is one thing (and for academic reasons I support avian specialists efforts to understand avian diseases) but once the bird owner finds out their beloved friend has advanced cancer or liver disease, what can be done to treat the poor bird? Chemotherapy? Major surgery? Hospice care with narcotic pain meds to ease their pain? At what cost in pain and suffering for the sick bird? And at what additional financial cost for the bird's grieving humans? Are these advanced serious diseases even treatable in parrot sized birds? What can be more frustrating than spending $5,000 or $10,000 to find out that your birdie buddy has an illness that's untreatable and incurable in parrots?

 

[Birds lover from Hawaii]

What could be gained by performing a CT on a parrot? Spending thousands of dollars trying to diagnose a very sick parrot is one thing (and for academic reasons I support avian specialists efforts to understand avian diseases) but once the bird owner finds out their beloved friend has advanced cancer or liver disease, what can be done to treat the poor bird? Chemotherapy? Major surgery? Hospice care with narcotic pain meds to ease their pain? At what cost in pain and suffering for the sick bird? And at what additional financial cost for the bird's grieving humans? Are these advanced serious diseases even treatable in parrot sized birds? What can be more frustrating than spending $5,000 or $10,000 to find out that your birdie buddy has an illness that's untreatable and incurable in parrots?

Why would they care? They are running a business so all they care about is only profit, nothing else. It is not the same world we used to live in. We can no longer depend solely on the trained professionals but have to make our own choices.

 

[texsize]

Why would they care? They are running a business so all they care about is only profit, nothing else. It is not the same world we used to live in. We can no longer depend solely on the trained professionals but have to make our own choices.

This place seems to deal with zoo animals as well as pets (LA zoo?) so maybe they are use to dealing with deep pockets.

some of my working career was spent in troubleshooting and repairing military electronics.
You always start with the easy stuff first and work your way up to the more difficult.
You don’t start out by tearing down the “whatever it is “ you start with replaceable boards and work your way into the tear down if the easy stuff doesn’t work.

well I gave him his pain meds around 1:30 pm my time.
he’s eating a lot and his crop felt full.
that was about 4.5 hours ago.
will see how much it helps.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

This place seems to deal with zoo animals as well as pets (LA zoo?) so maybe they are use to dealing with deep pockets.

some of my working career was spent in troubleshooting and repairing military electronics.
You always start with the easy stuff first and work your way up to the more difficult.
You don’t start out by tearing down the “whatever it is “ you start with replaceable boards and work your way into the tear down if the easy stuff doesn’t work.

well I gave him his pain meds around 1:30 pm my time.
he’s eating a lot and his crop felt full.
that was about 4.5 hours ago.
will see how much it helps.

The fact that he's eating well is at least half the battle- a very sick bird seldom eats well if at all!

 

[DonnaBudgie]

The fact that he's eating well is at least half the battle- a very sick bird seldom eats well if at all!

Did you ever get an appointment with Dr Frank Lavec at Wilshire Animal Hospital? When I lived in LA for 25 years he was considered the best avian vet in the area. I'm sure there are other good avian vets now too. You're actually very lucky- imagine how hard it is to find a good avian vet here in Maine where I now live! I found a good one here who performed an ultrasound on one of my budgies several months ago after egg binding (she survived) and also diagnosed a fractured femur in the same female budgie a month later (she has some serious issues) and she recovered from the fracture too. He charged $125 for the x ray and $150 for the ultrasound.

 

[texsize]

Did you ever get an appointment with Dr Frank Lavec at Wilshire Animal Hospital? When I lived in LA for 25 years he was considered the best avian vet in the area. I'm sure there are other good avian vets now too. You're actually very lucky- imagine how hard it is to find a good avian vet here in Maine where I now live! I found a good one here who performed an ultrasound on one of my budgies several months ago after egg binding (she survived) and also diagnosed a fractured femur in the same female budgie a month later (she has some serious issues) and she recovered from the fracture too. He charged $125 for the x ray and $150 for the ultrasound.

yes and no
I got the appointment for this Saturday (the one for 6,000) through there office.
The office he works at does not do ultrasound directly, they referred me to this place that is associated with his office/medical group. it's located on Sepulveda Blvd in West LA.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

yes and no
I got the appointment for this Saturday (the one for 6,000) through there office.
The office he works at does not do ultrasound directly, they referred me to this place that is associated with his office/medical group. it's located on Sepulveda Blvd in West LA.

I have to say that there are a lot of very wealthy parrot owners in the Wilshire blvd area who can and do spend obscene amounts on their birds' vet care. I recall spending a few thousand $$ there on my Budgie's pretty intensive medical care back in the early 1990s when I had a lot more $ to spend like that and I can't imagine how much it would cost now, 30 years later but have to admit that Dr Lavec's office saved my little Budgie's life. He lived for an additional 8 years after suffering a very serious wing fracture. They also treated the same budgie for several years for chronic kidney failure and he lived to be 13 before it finally killed him. I wish I had an avian vet here in Maine that had the staff and facility to promptly treat avian emergencies and hospitalize very sick birds. My avian vet here in Maine is only in the office a few days a week and appointments are hard to get.

 

[texsize]

My local CAV is also a part time Dr.
He performed a partial wing amputation on my cockatiel Angel and she pulled through.

She is still doing very well. The surgery with bloodwork was just about a thousand dollars.

IDK the only excuse I can see is they want to make up the cost of the equipment.
I already spent 1,700 on Bingo without finding the bottom line cause.
Was willing and expecting to spend another 1,500 but not 6 thousand. You have to draw the line somewhere.

When you set out to save someone else’s life you first have to make sure you aren’t endangering your own .

You see someone drowning you don’t jump in to save them if you can’t swim yourself (if you know what I mean)

 

[ravvlet]

Absolutely. Take care of yourself, this sounds like such a stressful ordeal. Your other birdies depend on you too, and we like having you around as well!

 

[texsize]

So, Um.
I don't want to jump the gun here but I made a change in Bingo's cage a day or two ago. I removed something that I thought he had no interest in but noticed pieces of this... thing on the floor of the cage indicating he had been chewing on it.

This morning he was DANCING. Doing his Steve Wonder dance for my wife and even calling her name.

I have been fooled before, thinking he was getting better only to be disappointed..

As a completely unrelated problem it's not bad enough that the gas company is charging an arm and both legs for gas the &^$#&%! stole $3,000 out of my checking account.

I wrote them a check for $320.00 and the bank shows the check going through for.
$3.220.00
Yes it's somewhat easy to see at first glance the 2 key got pressed twice but I think there is more to it.

I have both the bank and the gas company looking into it.
I hope they correct the problem before we get too low on food.

 

[Birds lover from Hawaii]

So, Um.
I don't want to jump the gun here but I made a change in Bingo's cage a day or two ago. I removed something that I thought he had no interest in but noticed pieces of this... thing on the floor of the cage indicating he had been chewing on it.

This morning he was DANCING. Doing his Steve Wonder dance for my wife and even calling her name.

I have been fooled before, thinking he was getting better only to be disappointed..

As a completely unrelated problem it's not bad enough that the gas company is charging an arm and both legs for gas the &^$#&%! stole $3,000 out of my checking account.

I wrote them a check for $320.00 and the bank shows the check going through for.
$3.220.00
Yes it's somewhat easy to see at first glance the 2 key got pressed twice but I think there is more to it.

I have both the bank and the gas company looking into it.
I hope they correct the problem before we get too low on food.

Smart move on clearing out unwanted and suspicious stuff from the cage

 

[Kentuckienne]

What did you take out of the cage? I think it’s more long-term, but some toys/bells/carabiners etc can be pot metal or even galvanized which causes heavy metal poisoning. It’s gotta be good stainless steel for everything, sometimes stainless bells have pot metal balls in them. I am very curious about this. If it was something scary…stress can actually cause elevated blood sugar and diabetes in birds!

There is a place maybe near….Oakley? Called California Medical Center for Birds. https://www.medicalcenterforbirds.com/

I know it’s too far, but they might be able to recommend someone near you. They regularly post excellent health info for birds on their website and social media.

There are some conditions that can’t be diagnosed with a single blood test. Diabetes is very hard to diagnose in parrots…their normal blood sugar levels can be four times a mammal’s. It takes multiple tests in a row to confirm that they are experiencing a diabetic condition and not a transient spike. I’m not suggesting that’s the problem, just that there could be a reason to repeat a test. The vet should be able to explain why it’s worth drawing fresh blood for another test.

I come back to my initial question, which is what will you do with the test results. I ask this all the time about things. What difference would knowing an answer make? what Is the test supposed to find? If the answer is expensive surgery, you have a difficult decision to make. Birds are delicate and often don’t survive surgery. Six thousand bucks is a lot of money for just the rest. I don’t say to not spend money on a beloved pet…this is a personal decision that everyone has to make. But balance the cost with how hard the treatment will be for the bird, and how much more time they will gain, and what their quality of life will be. Some people - not here - might guilt trip you for “wasting” money on a bird, and some will do it if you don’t spend your last dime. If you make your decision with Bingo’s well-being in mind, you will do the right thing, whatever it turns out to be.