Bingo's prognosis is guarded.

[texsize]

What did you take out of the cage? I think it’s more long-term, but some toys/bells/carabiners etc can be pot metal or even galvanized which causes heavy metal poisoning. It’s gotta be good stainless steel for everything, sometimes stainless bells have pot metal balls in them. I am very curious about this. If it was something scary…stress can actually cause elevated blood sugar and diabetes in birds!

There is a place maybe near….Oakley? Called California Medical Center for Birds. https://www.medicalcenterforbirds.com/

I know it’s too far, but they might be able to recommend someone near you. They regularly post excellent health info for birds on their website and social media.

There are some conditions that can’t be diagnosed with a single blood test. Diabetes is very hard to diagnose in parrots…their normal blood sugar levels can be four times a mammal’s. It takes multiple tests in a row to confirm that they are experiencing a diabetic condition and not a transient spike. I’m not suggesting that’s the problem, just that there could be a reason to repeat a test. The vet should be able to explain why it’s worth drawing fresh blood for another test.

I come back to my initial question, which is what will you do with the test results. I ask this all the time about things. What difference would knowing an answer make? what Is the test supposed to find? If the answer is expensive surgery, you have a difficult decision to make. Birds are delicate and often don’t survive surgery. Six thousand bucks is a lot of money for just the rest. I don’t say to not spend money on a beloved pet…this is a personal decision that everyone has to make. But balance the cost with how hard the treatment will be for the bird, and how much more time they will gain, and what their quality of life will be. Some people - not here - might guilt trip you for “wasting” money on a bird, and some will do it if you don’t spend your last dime. If you make your decision with Bingo’s well-being in mind, you will do the right thing, whatever it turns out to be.

I hand bought a…… I think it was a sea grass Matt intended for a reptile enclosure. It was triangular in shape and I tied it to the top inside of his cage.
Thought he would climb/hang from it but he never did.
When Bingo started spending more time at the back of his cage near the heater I think he started biting on it.
was finding pieces of it on bottom of cage.
I believe the cause of my Pacho’s death was from ingesting a rope (cotton) perch.
So I removed the sea grass whachamacalit.

Yes I love Bingo dearly but I can’t spend all my money on him and leave nothing for emergencies for my other birds.
Not to mention health care for the wife too.

Giving him the pain meds and watching his weight closely.
Hoping he will feel better when we get to warmer weather (he usually does).

hope that answers your questions.

 

[Birds lover from Hawaii]

I hand bought a…… I think it was a sea grass Matt intended for a reptile enclosure. It was triangular in shape and I tied it to the top inside of his cage.
Thought he would climb/hang from it but he never did.
When Bingo started spending more time at the back of his cage near the heater I think he started biting on it.
was finding pieces of it on bottom of cage.
I believe the cause of my Pacho’s death was from ingesting a rope (cotton) perch.
So I removed the sea grass whachamacalit.

Yes I love Bingo dearly but I can’t spend all my money on him and leave nothing for emergencies for my other birds.
Not to mention health care for the wife too.

Giving him the pain meds and watching his weight closely.
Hoping he will feel better when we get to warmer weather (he usually does).

hope that answers your questions.

It may possibly be a good sign that Bingo munched on the seagrass matt purely out of boredom as a sick bird wouldn't have the energy or interest to do that.

Do you have a humidifier in the house? I am guessing the humidity may be too low for Bingo and other birdies especially in winter when the heat is on. As we all know, parrots thrive in humid climate. If you don't, it's worthwhile to get one to put into Bingo's sleeping area to see if his condition improves. Also, get a outdoor/indoor thermometer with wireless sensor to monitor the temperature and humidity inside and outside of your house. I have one from Amazon (Brand: Unni) for about $30 and it works great.

Give it a try, much cheaper than $6000 testing and it may surprise you.

 

[texsize]

It may possibly be a good sign that Bingo munched on the seagrass matt purely out of boredom as a sick bird wouldn't have the energy or interest to do that.

Do you have a humidifier in the house? I am guessing the humidity may be too low for Bingo and other birdies especially in winter when the heat is on. As we all know, parrots thrive in humid climate. If you don't, it's worthwhile to get one to put into Bingo's sleeping area to see if his condition improves. Also, get a outdoor/indoor thermometer with wireless sensor to monitor the temperature and humidity inside and outside of your house. I have one from Amazon (Brand: Unni) for about $30 and it works great.

Give it a try, much cheaper than $6000 testing and it may surprise you.

I have been using a humidifier in the winter for the last two years. It does help him it’s just his symptoms had worsened in different ways.

pain meds helping him move better, more rapidly.
He’s no Sonic but better. Takes more interest in what is going on around hm (except at night).

At night when anyone in the family goes into the kitchen and starts making noise Bingo is right at the corner of the cage to see if it’s something he wants.
Not now. He just stays next to his heater, even if we put a treat in his food bowl he doesn’t move.

 

[Birds lover from Hawaii]

I have been using a humidifier in the winter for the last two years. It does help him it’s just his symptoms had worsened in different ways.

pain meds helping him move better, more rapidly.
He’s no Sonic but better. Takes more interest in what is going on around hm (except at night).

At night when anyone in the family goes into the kitchen and starts making noise Bingo is right at the corner of the cage to see if it’s something he wants.
Not now. He just stays next to his heater, even if we put a treat in his food bowl he doesn’t move.

How did you know he is in pain? Did you get a chance to talk with your CAV again?

 

[texsize]

How did you know he is in pain? Did you get a chance to talk with your CAV again?

I don’t know he is in pain.
But the x ray showed swelling in the abdomen and the pain meds can relieve swelling as well as pain.

Yes I got them through speaking with my CAV over th3 phone.
He will be out next week but I will take him back in when he comes back.

 

[Birds lover from Hawaii]

I don’t know he is in pain.
But the x ray showed swelling in the abdomen and the pain meds can relieve swelling as well as pain.

Yes I got them through speaking with my CAV over th3 phone.
He will be out next week but I will take him back in when he comes back.

I see. Glad to hear that you have a trusted CAV to consult with and not on this alone.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I don’t know he is in pain.
But the x ray showed swelling in the abdomen and the pain meds can relieve swelling as well as pain.

Yes I got them through speaking with my CAV over th3 phone.
He will be out next week but I will take him back in when he comes back.

I doubt he's in much pain if he's eating and acting pretty normal, thank God!

 

[HeatherG]

I got a call this morning from the place I WAS going to take Bingo tomorrow.

They wanted to change the game plan from ultrasound to.
CT scan.
Another blood test.
endoscope.
For a total cost of $6,000. 00 US.
I told them my last name is not Musk or Rockefeller.
If I could spend that kind of money and bring home a health bird I might do it even at that cost but this will only find out what's wrong (maybe).
It's quit possible whatever is wrong might not BE fixable.

There is a local vet that already said they can do a CT scan and even recommended it as a next step for a lot less than 6,000.
It was still a lot of money but IDK . I want to talk with my CAV and see what he says about all this.

What about endoscopy or laparoscopy vs. the ct or ultrasound? I paid for endoscopy on a Quaker (20 yrs ago) when I was an undergraduate. And we got very useful info and visualized the lesions that were sickening my bird. I would guess that closer to $1000 or less. ?

I am sorry you are going through this and I hope that Bingo continues to do better (as I understand he’s been sometimes).

 

[DonnaBudgie]

What about endoscopy or laparoscopy vs. the ct or ultrasound? I paid for endoscopy on a Quaker (20 yrs ago) when I was an undergraduate. And we got very useful info and visualized the lesions that were sickening my bird. I would guess that closer to $1000 or less. ?

I am sorry you are going through this and I hope that Bingo continues to do better (as I understand he’s been sometimes).

I feel so bad for you and Bingo. If it were me and I KNEW that going ahead with all these expensive and traumatizing procedures would (most likely) discover the cause of his illness AND lead to effective treatment that wouldn't make poor Bingo suffer, I would do it- even if others freaked at the cost. To hell with those who say "it's just a bird"! Dog/cat owners spend huge $$$ on vet care and they don't live as half as long as many parrots! And I'm far from super wealthy- that's what those high limit credit cards I have tucked away are for! The problem you face is that you don't know what's wrong with Bingo, and/or whether his condition is treatable/curable. If a dog gets hit by a car, breaks a hip and needs major surgery the owner at least knows the dog will likely recover. You are in a tough spot for sure!
Have you asked the vet what, specifically, they think they may find with a CT (or other high priced diagnostic test)? Have the vet tell you what the possibilities are. For each possibility, ask the vet what course of treatment they plan to pursue (if money's no hurdle) AND what the chances are of success. AND what will Bingo have to endure for treatment AND what risks are there. AND for each possible "condition", what would happen if you did nothing but continue to take great care of Bingo? This is how I approach all my own and all my human loved ones' health issues, too. The vet should be happy to answer these questions.
Best of luck. Keep up this thread.

 

[texsize]

I feel so bad for you and Bingo. If it were me and I KNEW that going ahead with all these expensive and traumatizing procedures would (most likely) discover the cause of his illness AND lead to effective treatment that wouldn't make poor Bingo suffer, I would do it- even if others freaked at the cost. To hell with those who say "it's just a bird"! Dog/cat owners spend huge $$$ on vet care and they don't live as half as long as many parrots! And I'm far from super wealthy- that's what those high limit credit cards I have tucked away are for! The problem you face is that you don't know what's wrong with Bingo, and/or whether his condition is treatable/curable. If a dog gets hit by a car, breaks a hip and needs major surgery the owner at least knows the dog will likely recover. You are in a tough spot for sure!
Have you asked the vet what, specifically, they think they may find with a CT (or other high priced diagnostic test)? Have the vet tell you what the possibilities are. For each possibility, ask the vet what course of treatment they plan to pursue (if money's no hurdle) AND what the chances are of success. AND what will Bingo have to endure for treatment AND what risks are there. AND for each possible "condition", what would happen if you did nothing but continue to take great care of Bingo? This is how I approach all my own and all my human loved ones' health issues, too. The vet should be happy to answer these questions.
Best of luck. Keep up this thread.

I think the main approach to diagnostic testing with Bingo is looking for a mass that should not be there. A tumor or blockage in his intestines.

The x ray did not by itself reveal any differentiation of his enlarged abdominal organs. That was what the ultrasound was supposed to help with.
I also had on vet or another mention force feeding him barium and giving him a series of x rays to chart his intestines and their function.

Having had this procedure done on me some years ago I would not want to force it on my bird who is already feeling poorly. Drinking plaster of Paris would be only mildly worse.

The endoscope may develop some information and I will speak with my CAV when I take him back in next week I think. I still see Bingo looking like he is trying to through up.
If he was a human I would say he is gaging or having the dry heaves.
He bobs' his head up/down 3/4 times but doesn't bring anything up.
He doesn't do this TO me or aimed at any object like regurgitation.
Sometimes I see him do this in the morning when I know he hasn't had anything to eat all night.

Cost is a big part of the problem that is true.
As a retired person on a fixed income (as of early 2020) I can't just put in for some over-time to make up the cost it has to come from savings.
And that savings has to last for a while, it's for human type emergencies too.
And Yes I got several credit cards but I worked hard before retirement getting them paid off first.
Don't know what the going rate is on CC interest but it's tied to prime rate and prime rate has been going up so I am sure the standard interest rate on them is up fairly high as well.

If I could pay that 6,000 and know I had a good chance ( 70% or better) of getting a healthy bird back I would do it. But 6,000 on top of the 1,700 I have already spent just to find out if he has something that even CAN be fixed ....

I did a little googling on the live expectancy of Yellow nape amazons in the wild.
I have found that information like this can be across the board with vastly different answers. I am sure that low survival rates of the very young are what bring down the average lifespan and studying amazon parrots that live high in a jungle gust don't get much study.
Anyway the figure I read was 20 years in the wild.
By that kind of standard bingo at 39 years old is almost double he natural live span.

Doesn't mean I am giving up but age and infirmity catches up with everyone.

 

[SailBoat]

Life expectancy of Yellow-Nape Amazons, other Amazons and other mid to lager Parrots in a companion environment has been collapsing during the last three decades as a result of poorly developed cardiovascular systems and diets based on Human junk food. At present, mid-twenties with death caused by heart failure. Prior to that point, a flighted YNA, eating a good diet was reaching into the 70's and 80's. There are many examples of younger Amazons that have a flighted life with a good diet that will likely live equally long lifes.

I have not heard any comments regarding Bingo's cardiovascular system and would guess that it is good. But, if I recall correctly, Bingo has been fighting issues with airsick /sinus congestion over the years, especially in the Winter. Very long way of saying that Bingo could easily live into his late 50's.

What concerns me, is the inability of the Avian Vets to provide some kind plausible cause is perplexing as they appear to be guessing, near hoping that the high-end tests will show something that they are not feeling with hands-on contact with Bingo's chest. Parrot's very thin skin allows near direct contact and variations in soft /hard and shape is easily determined.

My dear friend, I hope that my near clinical evaluation was not to cold as in fact, my heart is breaking as I hear your deep concern for your longtime family member. Huge Warm Amazon Feather Hugs, Good Friend.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I think the main approach to diagnostic testing with Bingo is looking for a mass that should not be there. A tumor or blockage in his intestines.

The x ray did not by itself reveal any differentiation of his enlarged abdominal organs. That was what the ultrasound was supposed to help with.
I also had on vet or another mention force feeding him barium and giving him a series of x rays to chart his intestines and their function.

Having had this procedure done on me some years ago I would not want to force it on my bird who is already feeling poorly. Drinking plaster of Paris would be only mildly worse.

The endoscope may develop some information and I will speak with my CAV when I take him back in next week I think. I still see Bingo looking like he is trying to through up.
If he was a human I would say he is gaging or having the dry heaves.
He bobs' his head up/down 3/4 times but doesn't bring anything up.
He doesn't do this TO me or aimed at any object like regurgitation.
Sometimes I see him do this in the morning when I know he hasn't had anything to eat all night.

Cost is a big part of the problem that is true.
As a retired person on a fixed income (as of early 2020) I can't just put in for some over-time to make up the cost it has to come from savings.
And that savings has to last for a while, it's for human type emergencies too.
And Yes I got several credit cards but I worked hard before retirement getting them paid off first.
Don't know what the going rate is on CC interest but it's tied to prime rate and prime rate has been going up so I am sure the standard interest rate on them is up fairly high as well.

If I could pay that 6,000 and know I had a good chance ( 70% or better) of getting a healthy bird back I would do it. But 6,000 on top of the 1,700 I have already spent just to find out if he has something that even CAN be fixed ....

I did a little googling on the live expectancy of Yellow nape amazons in the wild.
I have found that information like this can be across the board with vastly different answers. I am sure that low survival rates of the very young are what bring down the average lifespan and studying amazon parrots that live high in a jungle gust don't get much study.
Anyway the figure I read was 20 years in the wild.
By that kind of standard bingo at 39 years old is almost double he natural live span.

Doesn't mean I am giving up but age and infirmity catches up with everyone.

I get your thinking completely. You have obviously kept a clear head as much as you can during an extremely trying time with Bingo. Its so hard to determine lifespan in birds that live longer than 25 or 30 years in captivity for so many reasons. I would think that zoo records would have the most reliable data. At 39, Bingo must be a fairly elderly Amazon, but a very healthy and strong one up until recently. If there's ultimately nothing you can do to effectively treat whatever is ailing Bingo, I suppose you just try to make him comfortable like you would if taking care of a terminally I'll ailing human but how does one do that for a large parrot? It must be so difficult to be in your position.

 

[SailBoat]

I get your thinking completely. You have obviously kept a clear head as much as you can during an extremely trying time with Bingo. Its so hard to determine lifespan in birds that live longer than 25 or 30 years in captivity for so many reasons. I would think that zoo records would have the most reliable data. At 39, Bingo must be a fairly elderly Amazon, but a very healthy and strong one up until recently. If there's ultimately nothing you can do to effectively treat whatever is ailing Bingo, I suppose you just try to make him comfortable like you would if taking care of a terminally I'll ailing human but how does one do that for a large parrot? It must be so difficult to be in your position.

Life span of Amazons, especially the Big Hot Three (BFA, YNA & DYHA) and Mealy has had a long history of 'Elderly' starting north of 50 years. It has only been recently with the heavy belief in not allowing them to fully fledge that their life expectance has collapsed.

The currently much lower life span is being driven by the "Parrot as a Designer Feature" rather than a flighted family member.

Remember that Zoo Parrots are commonly donated from the public and more specifically elderly owners donating their Parrots. Zoo records would be surprisingly short as they are only in their care for 10 to 15 years. There are rare cases in which a young Parrot is donated.

 

[texsize]

Life expectancy of Yellow-Nape Amazons, other Amazons and other mid to lager Parrots in a companion environment has been collapsing during the last three decades as a result of poorly developed cardiovascular systems and diets based on Human junk food. At present, mid-twenties with death caused by heart failure. Prior to that point, a flighted YNA, eating a good diet was reaching into the 70's and 80's. There are many examples of younger Amazons that have a flighted life with a good diet that will likely live equally long lifes.

I have not heard any comments regarding Bingo's cardiovascular system and would guess that it is good. But, if I recall correctly, Bingo has been fighting issues with airsick /sinus congestion over the years, especially in the Winter. Very long way of saying that Bingo could easily live into his late 50's.

What concerns me, is the inability of the Avian Vets to provide some kind plausible cause is perplexing as they appear to be guessing, near hoping that the high-end tests will show something that they are not feeling with hands-on contact with Bingo's chest. Parrot's very thin skin allows near direct contact and variations in soft /hard and shape is easily determined.

My dear friend, I hope that my near clinical evaluation was not to cold as in fact, my heart is breaking as I hear your deep concern for your longtime family member. Huge Warm Amazon Feather Hugs, Good Friend.

Well my CAV did a good job of feeling up my...bird when I took him in and he had his second x ray (the good one).
He specifically said he couldn't feel anything wrong with digital examination.
At least he admits he doesn't know instead of troughing more exotic antibiotics or who knows what.
He gave me his best recommendation the ultrasound.
The only place I found withing 1 1/2 hours driving was this place that wanted to change up the testing without even seeing Bingo (just based on the info from my CAV).

Bingo is not in misery or Imediat distress.
It's just all the little things that just aren't RIGHT.
He doesn't play fight, not with me or his toys.
I do think is appetite is a bit off and that shows up/ has showed up in his weight.
Been weighing him ever day for a couple of weeks.
low is 505 grams and high was 517 grams.
No playing in his box.

He has taken a unusual (read strong) interest in going into the kitchen.
I have not fully figured this out.
Maybe cuz he knows it's where to food comes from.
Maybe cuz he wants to walk around on the counter top and destroy/throw stuff over the edge.
Maybe cuz Bella likes it in there so he figures it's the place to be.
IDK I just work hear.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Well my CAV did a good job of feeling up my...bird when I took him in and he had his second x ray (the good one).
He specifically said he couldn't feel anything wrong with digital examination.
At least he admits he doesn't know instead of troughing more exotic antibiotics or who knows what.
He gave me his best recommendation the ultrasound.
The only place I found withing 1 1/2 hours driving was this place that wanted to change up the testing without even seeing Bingo (just based on the info from my CAV).

Bingo is not in misery or Imediat distress.
It's just all the little things that just aren't RIGHT.
He doesn't play fight, not with me or his toys.
I do think is appetite is a bit off and that shows up/ has showed up in his weight.
Been weighing him ever day for a couple of weeks.
low is 505 grams and high was 517 grams.
No playing in his box.

He has taken a unusual (read strong) interest in going into the kitchen.
I have not fully figured this out.
Maybe cuz he knows it's where to food comes from.
Maybe cuz he wants to walk around on the counter top and destroy/throw stuff over the edge.
Maybe cuz Bella likes it in there so he figures it's the place to be.
IDK I just work hear.

It sounds like he's still very curious if he's not as interested in the old stuff and wants to explore the kitchen. Good luck keeping him out of there now and hope that your clothes closet isn't next!

 

[HeatherG]

Well my CAV did a good job of feeling up my...bird when I took him in and he had his second x ray (the good one).
He specifically said he couldn't feel anything wrong with digital examination.
At least he admits he doesn't know instead of troughing more exotic antibiotics or who knows what.
He gave me his best recommendation the ultrasound.
The only place I found withing 1 1/2 hours driving was this place that wanted to change up the testing without even seeing Bingo (just based on the info from my CAV).

Bingo is not in misery or Imediat distress.
It's just all the little things that just aren't RIGHT.
He doesn't play fight, not with me or his toys.
I do think is appetite is a bit off and that shows up/ has showed up in his weight.
Been weighing him ever day for a couple of weeks.
low is 505 grams and high was 517 grams.
No playing in his box.

He has taken a unusual (read strong) interest in going into the kitchen.
I have not fully figured this out.
Maybe cuz he knows it's where to food comes from.
Maybe cuz he wants to walk around on the counter top and destroy/throw stuff over the edge.
Maybe cuz Bella likes it in there so he figures it's the place to be.
IDK I just work hear.

Have you had avian viruses checked?

 

[texsize]

Have you had avian viruses checked?

I’m not sure. What would they look at, blood?
The exotic vet sent in samples of some slides for a PCR or is it PRC and it came back negative

Bingo has been having some trouble on his main perch.
Slipping and near falling a couple of times.
I just wrapped it with the self adhesive bandage for extra grip.
He stood on it right away but it’s late now and he’s in the back with his heater.
when I carry him around he doesn’t grip my fingers very tightly. I need to do some gripping of my own.
Most of my birds I try not to hold onto their toes cuz they can try to fly away.
Bingo can’t fly and now he has trouble with grip strength??
This could be why he hasn’t been interested in sitting high up in the window, he’s afraid of falling.

The kitchen has lower wide surface’s, window to look out

 

[ravvlet]

I’m not sure. What would they look at, blood?
The exotic vet sent in samples of some slides for a PCR or is it PRC and it came back negative

Bingo has been having some trouble on his main perch.
Slipping and near falling a couple of times.
I just wrapped it with the self adhesive bandage for extra grip.
He stood on it right away but it’s late now and he’s in the back with his heater.
when I carry him around he doesn’t grip my fingers very tightly. I need to do some gripping of my own.
Most of my birds I try not to hold onto their toes cuz they can try to fly away.
Bingo can’t fly and now he has trouble with grip strength??
This could be why he hasn’t been interested in sitting high up in the window, he’s afraid of falling.

The kitchen has lower wide surface’s, window to look out

Kirby’s grip strength is pretty garbage. His vet feels it’s a combo of heart disease and arthritis. It’s part of why he’s on enalapril now.

How’s his ticker? Heart disease can cause water retention, although I don’t think to the degree of swelling the organs reflected on that X-ray.

Yep, a PCR test is used to test for specific viruses. So it sounds like that avenue has been explored.

 

[HeatherG]

Kirby’s grip strength is pretty garbage. His vet feels it’s a combo of heart disease and arthritis. It’s part of why he’s on enalapril now.

How’s his ticker? Heart disease can cause water retention, although I don’t think to the degree of swelling the organs reflected on that X-ray.

Yep, a PCR test is used to test for specific viruses. So it sounds like that avenue has been explored.

I would check on PDD if it has not been checked. That disorder does respond to nsaids and maybe steroids.

 

[HeatherG]

I would check on PDD if it has not been checked. That disorder does respond to nsaids and maybe steroids.

I’m guessing this would be a blood sample. Tissue samples would be even better but those aren’t normally available.