Parrotlet respiratory issue

[Scott]

I don't take big risks with my birds, but I also don't avoid things which I believe are a minute risk (same goes for me aswell as my birds - I don't wear a seatbelt for example).

I have just invested in some UV lights and better food though. Does anyone know an equivalent to "Harrisons high potency" food which isn't so expensive?

The only avian vet near me advertises as avian, but also sees any pet. I think they have some vets for avian and some for others, as I've been told I have to come in on certain days. So you shouldn't always assume just because a vet practice sees dogs that they're unsuitable for parrots.

How well qualified are you to quantify risks with your birds? Not wearing a seatbelt in contravention of law in many venues and statistically fraught with disaster gives one pause. I respectfully dispute that as "minute risk."

Harrison's commands premium price due to organic ingredients and proprietary additives. A reasonable alternative for many species is their Adult Lifetime Coarse.

Many practices accept varied species and have certified avian vets. Others advertise treatment of "exotics" loosely defined as birds and atypical companions such as lizards, turtles, ferrets, etc. Perusing website (if available) or speaking to receptionist ought clarify.

 

[Laurasea]

I don't take big risks with my birds, but I also don't avoid things which I believe are a minute risk (same goes for me aswell as my birds - I don't wear a seatbelt for example).

I have just invested in some UV lights and better food though. Does anyone know an equivalent to "Harrisons high potency" food which isn't so expensive?

The only avian vet near me advertises as avian, but also sees any pet. I think they have some vets for avian and some for others, as I've been told I have to come in on certain days. So you shouldn't always assume just because a vet practice sees dogs that they're unsuitable for parrots.

Because all lights aren't equal, I have a link about lights for birds.
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/2018/06/05/lighting-needs-could-your-parrot-be-uv-deficient/

TOPS pellets are good, I aldo like Oven Bajed Bites by All Living Things and my parrots do to, not expensive.

The seat belt thing...I grew up next to a highway, ive seen what not wearing a seat belt does, one person dead ejected through the window, tge person with seat belt on not a scratch on them.... not something you forget, and not a minor choice. Their choice left them dead.

 

[PaulCollins]

How well qualified are you to quantify risks with your birds?

20 years of experience.

Not wearing a seatbelt in contravention of law in many venues and statistically fraught with disaster gives one pause. I respectfully dispute that as "minute risk."

But my risk to take, and none of the business of the police, who are easy to outsmart.

Harrison's commands premium price due to organic ingredients and proprietary additives. A reasonable alternative for many species is their Adult Lifetime Coarse.

Are there no other makes of similar quality?

Many practices accept varied species and have certified avian vets. Others advertise treatment of "exotics" loosely defined as birds and atypical companions such as lizards, turtles, ferrets, etc. Perusing website (if available) or speaking to receptionist ought clarify.

I have never actually asked if they are certified, but they seem knowledgeable, apart from the vet I saw last, who claimed I should have a CITES (UK) certificate for my blue fronted amazons! Those aren't on the UK's endangered list and need no certificate. Other Amazons are. I'll let her off, she's foreign and maybe not familiar with UK law, but hopefully familiar with parrots.

 

[PaulCollins]

Because all lights aren't equal, I have a link about lights for birds.
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/2018/06/05/lighting-needs-could-your-parrot-be-uv-deficient/

I bought Arcadia, after reading good reviews. Are they ok?

TOPS pellets are good, I aldo like Oven Bajed Bites by All Living Things and my parrots do to, not expensive.

Are they as good as Harrisons? Because I have one bird who is (not my doing, just got her) unwell, and a lot who are breeding or attempting to breed.

The seat belt thing...I grew up next to a highway, ive seen what not wearing a seat belt does, one person dead ejected through the window, tge person with seat belt on not a scratch on them.... not something you forget, and not a minor choice. Their choice left them dead.

I've seen people saved by not wearing one, ejected clear of the inferno. And I've read of people unable to escape from the car due to it trapping them. But the point is, the chances of you needing one (if you're a decent driver) are so small that it's not worth the discomfort and hassle.

 

[noodles123]

Because all lights aren't equal, I have a link about lights for birds.
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/2018/06/05/lighting-needs-could-your-parrot-be-uv-deficient/

I bought Arcadia, after reading good reviews. Are they ok?

TOPS pellets are good, I aldo like Oven Bajed Bites by All Living Things and my parrots do to, not expensive.

Are they as good as Harrisons? Because I have one bird who is (not my doing, just got her) unwell, and a lot who are breeding or attempting to breed.

The seat belt thing...I grew up next to a highway, ive seen what not wearing a seat belt does, one person dead ejected through the window, the person with seat belt on not a scratch on them.... not something you forget, and not a minor choice. Their choice left them dead.

I've seen people saved by not wearing one, ejected clear of the inferno. And I've read of people unable to escape from the car due to it trapping them. But the point is, the chances of you needing one (if you're a decent driver) are so small that it's not worth the discomfort and hassle.

I am really glad that you are still here etc, because I am sure that your 20 years offer a lot of experience etc (and we are all still learning). Apparently, we are both stubborn, which is good and bad

I will say, that no bird has ever been killed by lack of Teflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFCs and that non-stick pans are far riskier to birds than seat-belts are to humans. Yes, a human can die from a seatbelt, but a parrot (in terms of Teflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFCs vs non) is a poor comparison, as using safe cookware poses no risk (at least when looking at the cookware itself-- obviously burned food/excessively heated oils can still have an impact).

There is just no reason not to transition to safer methods-- they are very cheap if you shop (I am a special ed teacher/behaviorist and I don't make much money).

I get that you made it this far, and I respect that, but you can't just assume that all is well until you make a genuine effort to change.. Don't get me wrong, It is EXTREMELY annoying to have to overthink things--- but it is VERY affordable and doable if you take just a bit of time to research and make purchases cautiously. I will also add that many parrots (whose lifespans have the potential to be 30-100) are cut down by more than half (due to human-imposed conditions that are neither natural nor safe).

In terms of lighting, that is controversial. I have used full-spectrum and the research will drive you a bit mad in terms of the contradictions and worm-holes...Happy reading lol!


I seriously hope you do stick around. I could see feeling like we were this annoying, pretentious forum if you didn't know us, but that really isn't the case. There are a variety of opinions here, but Teflon is a very very heated issue, as so many of us have witnessed the tragedy that it so often brings to birds.


This is all coming from someone who lets kids drink from hoses, eat vegetables from the garden, etc etc.

 

[Fai]

Well I’m not going to risk it especially since the general vet killed my last bird. You aren’t going to get heart surgery from a doctor who doesn’t specialize in it and die because of how inexperienced they were in that subject.

 

[Scott]

How well qualified are you to quantify risks with your birds?

20 years of experience.

Chronological experience less important than education and lessons learned for continual improvement.

Not wearing a seatbelt in contravention of law in many venues and statistically fraught with disaster gives one pause. I respectfully dispute that as "minute risk."

But my risk to take, and none of the business of the police, who are easy to outsmart.

Outsmarting the police charged with enforcing laws/statues of little benefit if you are ejected and severely/mortally wounded. Statistics prove your odds are best properly restrained. In my experience, folks who take craven risks are likely to do so in other areas of life. This appears validated with dismissal of Teflon/PFOA concerns.

Harrison's commands premium price due to organic ingredients and proprietary additives. A reasonable alternative for many species is their Adult Lifetime Coarse.

Are there no other makes of similar quality?

Members advocate the use of variety of quality pellets including Harrison's, Tops, Oven Baked Bites, Mazure, etc.

Many practices accept varied species and have certified avian vets. Others advertise treatment of "exotics" loosely defined as birds and atypical companions such as lizards, turtles, ferrets, etc. Perusing website (if available) or speaking to receptionist ought clarify.

I have never actually asked if they are certified, but they seem knowledgeable, apart from the vet I saw last, who claimed I should have a CITES (UK) certificate for my blue fronted amazons! Those aren't on the UK's endangered list and need no certificate. Other Amazons are. I'll let her off, she's foreign and maybe not familiar with UK law, but hopefully familiar with parrots.

You can verify veterinarian educational and affiliation with veterinary manager or receptionist.

 

[Fai]

If you guys don’t mind me asking, those with birds, when you observe your bird sleeping or resting, do you guys see any movement in the lower stomach area, near the feet, even if it’s the smallest movement is there any at all?

Also with each passing day, it appears that my birds breathing is becoming less and less visible, especially today. She loves to hang upside down but for the last week we have been taking her down from there, but today we decided to let her stay hanging upside down as long as she liked (she hanged upside down for about an hour) after that her breathing seem to be so small I think that hanging upside allowed her to cough up any remaining seed shells since apparently the way to help a choking bird is to hang them upside down + the humidifier may be softening the shells. Her appointment to the vet is on the 21st and they are actually offering free first time visits with healthy animals (no emergencies or second opinions basically) but of course if they find the bird sick then they will charge for any tests etc. I looked at the reviews and they are positive with birds, the person also has their diploma for an avian specialist so I hope they can examine her well.

 

[noodles123]

I can't really see Noodle's belly through her feathers but her feathers sometimes shake in that area a little. I don't think that's exactly what you are describing...If you keep running the humidifier, make sure you use distilled water, as regular water shoots powdery minerals into the air and isn't great for you, the bird, or humidifier.



I'm glad you are seeing an avian specialist! Again, even if all is well, you should always establish care before serious illness (so make sure you remind your mom that if she says that nothing turned out to be wrong lol)

 

[Laurasea]

I will have to watch my birds sleeping, and get back to you. But I know there is some movement of tail. Because I'm always watching for tail bob.

I hope that shell she coughed up was the issue! That would be great!!!

 

[Fai]

Actually, her breathing is most visible when she’s fluffy and has her foot up! Her feathers look they are the ones moving and not her actual stomach, I think it maybe the fact that her feathers are exaggerating the breathing which is when I got scared. And I’m hoping it’s the seed shells as well, the weird thing is, I don’t even see the smallest tail bob they have when balancing

 

[Laurasea]

I have watched my parrots , and when taking a nap. I do not see breathing feather movement, not under tail not anyplace, or so very subtle...

 

[Fai]

I’ve tried to take videos of it, but it isn’t visible in videos, you have to get somewhat close to my bird to see it, this is before the seed was coughed out though. Now you have to be extremely close to see any breathing. It isn’t her chest that’s moving which I would be scared to see because that would probably indicate something worse, but regardless, I hope if there is still seed shells that she can get them out, but we are bringing her to the vet so we should get an answer soon.

If she was exposed to Teflon, I hope she can still live a very long life and I will try my best to provide the best support I can to help her breathe and we may never know and hope they develop a medicine/treatment to birds exposed to Teflon since it has happen to many owners.

 

[Fai]

After doing some much more research, I finally found specific article relating to inhaled seed of especially millets. My bird eats a tiny bit of seeds, then pellets, but she also eats millets when it comes to her seed part of the diet (apart from the veggies and fruit diet we give her) and it looks like there’s a lot of incidents where birds inhale especially millets and it explains a lot because after studying her some more, she has respiratory distress while she eats which is a symptom of inhaled seeds; this will also explain as to why she isn’t acting sick and I haven’t caught the early signs of sickness either (weight and poop)

The treatments for this kinda of scare me because sometimes they have to do surgery and the others sound difficult as well but the one that looked lower risk was where they a bird a mist to inhale to dissolve the seed. I hope after the vet they can take it out (if she has indeed inhaled one) or maybe she can spit it out because it looks like the seed shell she coughed out may have not been the only one.

Also, we have been boiling the water for the humidifier which I believe is what you are supposed to do? But I think we are trying to limit the humidifier to 1-3 hours a day as fungal infections can grow from hot and humid air quality and I don’t want to risk it as I don’t know what she has yet.

Thank you guys for being very informative, I would have never found this much information by myself, and for the past 8 and a half years I didn’t even know this which I wish I would have known for my other bird but i hope she lived a very happy life <3

 

[noodles123]

After doing some much more research, I finally found specific article relating to inhaled seed of especially millets. My bird eats a tiny bit of seeds, then pellets, but she also eats millets when it comes to her seed part of the diet (apart from the veggies and fruit diet we give her) and it looks like there’s a lot of incidents where birds inhale especially millets and it explains a lot because after studying her some more, she has respiratory distress while she eats which is a symptom of inhaled seeds; this will also explain as to why she isn’t acting sick and I haven’t caught the early signs of sickness either (weight and poop)

The treatments for this kinda of scare me because sometimes they have to do surgery and the others sound difficult as well but the one that looked lower risk was where they a bird a mist to inhale to dissolve the seed. I hope after the vet they can take it out (if she has indeed inhaled one) or maybe she can spit it out because it looks like the seed shell she coughed out may have not been the only one.

Also, we have been boiling the water for the humidifier which I believe is what you are supposed to do? But I think we are trying to limit the humidifier to 1-3 hours a day as fungal infections can grow from hot and humid air quality and I don’t want to risk it as I don’t know what she has yet.

Thank you guys for being very informative, I would have never found this much information by myself, and for the past 8 and a half years I didn’t even know this which I wish I would have known for my other bird but i hope she lived a very happy life <3

distilled water doesn't have the mineral content that regular water does. Boiling won't remove those- https://airfuji.com/can-you-use-tap-water-in-a-humidifier/


Boiling will kill bacteria etc but it doesn't remove deposits--- distilled had minerals removed and is clean/no need to boil

 

[PaulCollins]

I am really glad that you are still here etc, because I am sure that your 20 years offer a lot of experience etc (and we are all still learning). Apparently, we are both stubborn, which is good and bad

So I'm changing to this "wonderful" pellet food, and I find that apparently European breeders don't like it (preferring to make their own mixes of seeds/etc/etc), and American ones do. My opinion is the pellets should be easier for me, and stop them selecting which foods they eat, so not getting the right nutrition. They could do with better feathers and more keenness on breeding. I'm assuming the lack of desire is lack of nutrition. I've found Harrisons, Nutribird, and Hagen to look like they're decent quality (judging by the ingredients and advertising spiel), and since Harrisons is over twice the price, I'll use the other two (whichever I can get hold of, many suppliers are out of stock).

I will say, that no bird has ever been killed by lack of Teflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFCs and that non-stick pans are far riskier to birds than seat-belts are to humans. Yes, a human can die from a seatbelt, but a parrot (in terms of Teflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFCs vs non) is a poor comparison, as using safe cookware poses no risk (at least when looking at the cookware itself-- obviously burned food/excessively heated oils can still have an impact).

The problem with "non-non-stick" pans is well.... most people burn food onto them! Irrelevant really, I use a microwave only! You'll probably tell me off for using aerosol deoderants. I'm surprised they're allowed to put highly flammable butane into those things. The CFC ones were probably better! (Unless you're a teenager using them as flamethrowers).

There is just no reason not to transition to safer methods-- they are very cheap if you shop (I am a special ed teacher/behaviorist and I don't make much money).

I think the most dangerous thing is electrical cables. Hide one and they find another! I actually disconnected the earth from my microwave when I saw a parrot sat on it chewing the cord. If you know anything about electricity, you'll know you need to complete the circuit. Earth on the feet and live on the beak is bad. Earth is a stupid idea anyway, even for humans - knee on the washing machine and finger on a live cable, current goes through your heart. No earth on the washing machine, no circuit, no shock.

In terms of lighting, that is controversial. I have used full-spectrum and the research will drive you a bit mad in terms of the contradictions and worm-holes...Happy reading lol!

I have bought four 23W arcadia lamps. The only thing I can be sure of is that they need to be avian lamps - different proportions of UV than reptile and disco UV lamps. Unfortunately that means they're all those antique fluorescent (or compact fluorescent) inefficient short lifetime things, I can't find LED avian ones anywhere.

I seriously hope you do stick around. I could see feeling like we were this annoying, pretentious forum if you didn't know us, but that really isn't the case.

I'd say this was the second most pretentious forum I use. The other isn't a pet forum. Most people here are very aggressive and pounce on anyone not doing things their way.

There are a variety of opinions here, but Teflon is a very very heated issue,

That's exactly what you're not meant to do to Teflon

This is all coming from someone who lets kids drink from hoses, eat vegetables from the garden, etc etc.

And so you should, to build their immune systems. Kids are way tougher than parrots.

 

[PaulCollins]

Chronological experience less important than education and lessons learned for continual improvement.

I was including those in the experience.

Outsmarting the police charged with enforcing laws/statues of little benefit if you are ejected and severely/mortally wounded. Statistics prove your odds are best properly restrained. In my experience, folks who take craven risks are likely to do so in other areas of life. This appears validated with dismissal of Teflon/PFOA concerns.

The chances of me needing a seatbelt are so small it's not worth the bother. I'd put one on if I was on race track. But at below 100mph speeds on straight roads, why bother?

You can verify veterinarian educational and affiliation with veterinary manager or receptionist.

They can produce a certificate? I'd feel I was being a bit rude, but I guess they get asked it all the time. Is there an official qualification?

 

[PaulCollins]

Also, we have been boiling the water for the humidifier which I believe is what you are supposed to do? But I think we are trying to limit the humidifier to 1-3 hours a day as fungal infections can grow from hot and humid air quality and I don’t want to risk it as I don’t know what she has yet.

I read something online that you shouldn't go as high as 60% as that's when mould starts growing, but parrots shouldn't go below 50%, which leaves not a lot of margin for error. Does your humidifier have a digital humidistat? Don't trust one that doesn't have an actual digital setting, they can be very inaccurate.

 

[Fai]

Also, we have been boiling the water for the humidifier which I believe is what you are supposed to do? But I think we are trying to limit the humidifier to 1-3 hours a day as fungal infections can grow from hot and humid air quality and I don’t want to risk it as I don’t know what she has yet.

I read something online that you shouldn't go as high as 60% as that's when mould starts growing, but parrots shouldn't go below 50%, which leaves not a lot of margin for error. Does your humidifier have a digital humidistat? Don't trust one that doesn't have an actual digital setting, they can be very inaccurate.

It does not unfortunately, the one we got was the only one we could find since we never really needed one before as parakeets lived in dry and hot places. When we got our parrotlet it took awhile to find a humidifier but the one we got has a high mode and a low mode, I should look into it then.

 

[noodles123]

You can buy super cheap humidity/temp monitors at Wal-Mart for under 8 bucks.