Parrotlet respiratory issue

[Fai]

No, they didn’t even give that option. We were extremely upset and don’t want to leave our bird there. I’m guessing maybe my bird flew into the kitchen one time when my mom was using it but it wasn’t a lot so it slowly built up.

Also we are getting a new pan to replace the Teflon one and my mom is wondering if a ceramic one that claims it’s green and non stick, is that fine?

I have also talked about it with her and we will do yearly visits to the avian.

And update about our bird: she is still eating good with a varied diet, she is extremely active flying for hours and since we’ve got her, she like to hang upside down grooming herself sometimes! I researched that and it said that they like to do that and will hang there for hours? Again her tail isn’t bobbing not even a little, her poop is consistent with her diet, it’s literally only when she sleeps that her breathing is visible.

 

[noodles123]

She could be totally fine-- it is just that the rapid breathing you are describing is not normal compared to her baseline because you said yourself that she didn't always breathe that way. The thing is, it's all guess-work at this point.

I'm not shocked that they didn't mention PTFE if they were non avian certified. Many non-avian vets don't know about this issue.
The fact that she is eating well etc is great, but again, you have noticed a change, which is why I am concerned. Especially given the fact that your last bird died of a respiratory issue. Damage from fumes can be cumulative, but that is not the only possibility.

Your last bird may have also had a contagious disease, and that is another possibility (as some take up to 10 years to incubate fully, while another bird may catch the same disease and show signs within a week).


My favorite pots come from thrift stores--I am a stainless gal but most ceramic (although not all) is safe. It should be noted that heating any oil to 400+ degrees in any pan/cookware can also cause a response similar to teflon toxicosisif it occurs over a period of time (like you might see with a pot-roast or something). We had someone's parrot die from a teflon-free pizza stone that heated the oils in the cheese and meat so high that they became airborne and caused a similar result.

 

[Inger]

I'm with Noodles here. Even if the teflon pan isn't the issue this time, that doesn't mean it won't be in the future. And it certainly could have contributed to your last bird's illness.

Google "teflon poisoning in birds" for a ton of useful information for your mother. Or maybe just buy her a new pan for mother's day??

 

[Fai]

I’m sorry if I said rapid breathing but I meant it’s not fast but visible, I’ve seen rapid breathing and it’s not that, you can see the bottom of her tummy moving and I have seen her visibly breathing when we first got her but my memory was failing to remember but yes you could always seen her breathing when she’s asleep. And the vet did mention Teflon but it was one of many reason she said as to why her chest was expanded, I don’t think the vet mentioned it after the x ray though, I think she only said that fluid was in her lungs and it was compromised- we were in shock so it was very hard to listen but this is what I remember

 

[Fai]

We are getting a new pan and I offered to buy it but she wants to get a ceramic one that is “non stick but green and only made with organic materials” - is that ok?

 

[noodles123]

What is the brand? If you post a link to the one she wants, that would help.

 

[Fai]

I’ll make sure the area is well ventilated and that she’s in a separate room if something is being cooked just in case then as well, thank you!

 

[Fai]

It’shttp://greenpan.us

 

[noodles123]

I’ll make sure the area is well ventilated and that she’s in a separate room if something is being cooked just in case then as well, thank you!

Yeah- that is the key. With Tefflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFCS, you can't really ventilate a home well enough to mitigate the risks (although if you see breathing abnormalities, you should always try and ventilate the area).


Regardless of the pan used, parrots shouldn't be around cooking due to the risk of airborne oils themselves, but don't depend on windows to save your bird from chemicals like Teflon. Again, Teflon can kill even with windows open etc.



I am glad your mom is getting a new pan.


edit- This is a very well-known parrot site and they say the jury is still out on thermolon (the thing in your mom's new pan) https://birdtricksstore.com/blogs/birdtricks-blog/non-stick-cookware-kills-another-parrot


There are 100% ceramic pans out there though that do not use nano-technology. If she is set on this pan, I'd say better that than the alternative, but if she is spending money anyway, I'd get one that is recommended by parrot owners.

 

[Fai]

I posted the link to it^ let me know if I should send it again

 

[Fai]

Do you have any recommendations of brands? My mom still wants to get a non stick pan that is not Teflon and this one is really expensive for it to still be a potential danger to birds

 

[noodles123]

My sister got some expensive brand that I researched to death-- let me text her and see what it was.


Edit-- So I have not personally used them, but my sister knows I have the bird and she had serious cancer recently, so she cares about this stuff too. I researched her brand "Caraway" www.Carawayhome.com and I think it seems safer, as it does not use thermolon, but again, havent used it myself. She likes them though. They aren't cheap, but they last. My parents had a green pan between parrots and it flaked within a few years.


You aren't supposed to use olive oil in a greenpan either.


That having been said, you can get vintage Revere-ware (copper bottom, stainless sides/interior) at a thrift store for next to nothing, and while it isn't non-stick, if you oil it, it isn't an issue. I never use any non-stick and I don't have caked pans. Modern Revere-ware DOES often contain Teflon, so the kind I am describing is totally uncoated..


https://www.natalieinthecity.com/2020/04/caraway-non-toxic-non-stick-parrot-safe-cookware.html <-- this person has birds and uses the carawayhome brand that my sister has.




This website states that when some ceramic cookware starts to chip, that it should be replaced, as it can become harmful for your bird if used when damaged-- https://www.parrotwebsite.com/what-cookware-is-safe-for-parrots/


Also-- when shopping non-stick, silicon is okay, but silicone is not

 

[PaulCollins]

Make sure you are not using teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs in the house--they can be very deadly when heated (even if the bird is on another floor---doesn't matter if a bird survived 1 or 100 exposures- your bird can still suddenly die from them or become extremely ill. These chemicals are seriously SO dangerous and nothing to mess around with or put to chance.


Make sure you are not smoking, vaping or using non-avian cleaners



Make sure you are not using candles, air fresheners, wax warmers, diffusers, aroma-therapy etc. Glade plug-ins are PARTICULARLY BAD.



If you are already doing all of these things, get your bird to the vet, as it could be an infection and they hide illness until things are getting really bad and they can no longer mask it. If you are using these things, that is even more reason to get your bird to a vet (avian certified if at all possible, as it makes a world of difference).

You list a lot of things not to use. Unless I went back to living in a cave, quite a few of those will be in the house.

 

[Inger]

Make sure you are not using teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs in the house--they can be very deadly when heated (even if the bird is on another floor---doesn't matter if a bird survived 1 or 100 exposures- your bird can still suddenly die from them or become extremely ill. These chemicals are seriously SO dangerous and nothing to mess around with or put to chance.


Make sure you are not smoking, vaping or using non-avian cleaners



Make sure you are not using candles, air fresheners, wax warmers, diffusers, aroma-therapy etc. Glade plug-ins are PARTICULARLY BAD.



If you are already doing all of these things, get your bird to the vet, as it could be an infection and they hide illness until things are getting really bad and they can no longer mask it. If you are using these things, that is even more reason to get your bird to a vet (avian certified if at all possible, as it makes a world of difference).

You list a lot of things not to use. Unless I went back to living in a cave, quite a few of those will be in the house.

Then maybe a bird isn’t right for you.


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[Laurasea]

Paul Collins,
The risks are real, so many parrots die.
I use cast iron and stainless steel sbd glass cookware.

I don't use any of those defuse either. I f
Dont want to inhale them into my body either.

 

[PaulCollins]

Make sure you are not using teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs in the house--they can be very deadly when heated (even if the bird is on another floor---doesn't matter if a bird survived 1 or 100 exposures- your bird can still suddenly die from them or become extremely ill. These chemicals are seriously SO dangerous and nothing to mess around with or put to chance.


Make sure you are not smoking, vaping or using non-avian cleaners



Make sure you are not using candles, air fresheners, wax warmers, diffusers, aroma-therapy etc. Glade plug-ins are PARTICULARLY BAD.



If you are already doing all of these things, get your bird to the vet, as it could be an infection and they hide illness until things are getting really bad and they can no longer mask it. If you are using these things, that is even more reason to get your bird to a vet (avian certified if at all possible, as it makes a world of difference).

You list a lot of things not to use. Unless I went back to living in a cave, quite a few of those will be in the house.

Then maybe a bird isn’t right for you.


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I'll thank you not to be so rude. I've owned parrots for 20 years without problems. I don't take absurd precautions, just as nobody I know takes absurd precautions with their kids. I sometimes see people that claim to actually lock any cupboards with bleach etc in them incase their toddler gets in there. My parents didn't do that, neither does anyone I know. I don't know anyone who drank bleach.

 

[noodles123]

You list a lot of things not to use. Unless I went back to living in a cave, quite a few of those will be in the house.

Then maybe a bird isn’t right for you.


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I'll thank you not to be so rude. I've owned parrots for 20 years without problems. I don't take absurd precautions, just as nobody I know takes absurd precautions with their kids. I sometimes see people that claim to actually lock any cupboards with bleach etc in them incase their toddler gets in there. My parents didn't do that, neither does anyone I know. I don't know anyone who drank bleach.

I'm sorry you feel that way (mostly, for your birds). This isn't about feelings though. There are plenty of hard facts out there and I truly hope that you never experience the deadly consequences of disregarding these warnings.

Also, if living without Teflon is living in a cave, then sign me up. FOR CENTURIES people were just fine without Teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs.
PTFE/PFOA/PFCs/Teflon are inconsistent in their impacts but deadly (confirmed via necroscopy) at much lower temperatures than those cited by manufacturers. They are the biggest killer of captive birds and if you still choose to use them knowing that, then pride goeth before the fall...Also, the cumulative impacts are real, even if your bird seems fine at the moment.


As a child, one of our parakeets lasted for a long time (despite many unhealthy habits in the home, including Teflon). That having been said, other birds have died from much less and it is a very quantifiable and severe risk --it is also SO UNNECESSARY. My food doesn't stick...It's easy to cook without chemical non-stick...It's cheap to buy stainless second-hand...I have nice pots and pans and I bet I didn't spend more than $100 on 10 of them collectively.

This is like saying that you would risk your bird's life for a petty convenience because it hasn't died YET...because you know the risk, but choose it anyway. Citing your own risky behavior (as opposed to the statistics, or CLEAR-CUT advice from certified avian vets) as a means of keeping risky-behaviors in place for others is like citing a 100-year-old alcoholic smoker to justify excessive drinking and pack-a-day smoking (it worked for them, right? Does that mean that because you have lucked out that you have no obligation to learn about the intricacies of avian respiratory anatomy?) The efficiency of their bodies' needs to supply muscles etc with high amounts of oxygen quickly makes them far more vulnerable to basic household products than a mammal of any sort.

Last thought for now: Teflon is also passed from human mother to baby via breast-milk and wasn't even invented prior to 1938 (let alone mass-marketed). So if we just broke free from the cave-men in 1938, that is news to me, as those people were made of sterner stuff than many of us today. Most of humanity was built on the backs of those "cave-men" you speak of....Including electricity and automobiles (all of which preceded Teflon by a long-shot)..I'm not sure we have it right today...Newer isn't always better.

 

[Fai]

Update: We have ordered new pans with no Teflon in them but even if they don’t have Teflon we are probably going to take the same precautions as before as if we had Teflon just in case.

We are taking her to the vet soon, the nearest certified vet is about an hour away and I hope they can check her out

I’ve continued to monitor our birds weight and poop and both is still fine, she is still eating quite a lot a day, and she is still very active

What I’ve been paranoid about is that when I look at her closely, you can see the bottom of her stomach (NOT her chest) move very slightly like less than a centimeter but you can see her wings move rarely to it (this happens only when she’s sleeping/resting) I have also observed that while she eats that every few days it looks like she will eat then look like she is trying to get the food down (somewhat like a bob) and a few days ago she was just chirping and flying then a dark brown seed shell comes out of her mouth and I was suspecting that ever since her companion left that she has had a hard time eating and inhaled that seed shell which would explain why she doesn’t exhibit other sick symptoms. I’m not sure though if I’m being paranoid and that’s how birds breathe?

Edit: Also to add, as no one said that humidifiers were bad to my earlier post and I’ve researched it, since parrotlets live in a warm humid environment I’ve been using one and I’m hoping that it’ll help her breathe and hoping that it helped her cough out that seed shell as it was soft- also I’m not sure if it was stuck in her airway, this is all pure speculation but we are taking her to the vet soon and I’ll update you guys on that

 

[noodles123]

It could have been the seed for sure. Even so, it is really good that you are getting established with an avian vet, because you don't want to wait until it is an emergency to do that. Plus, this way, they have a decent idea of what your bird is like when he/she is not showing major signs of illness (as opposed to them just meeting her when she's super sick)

 

[PaulCollins]

I don't take big risks with my birds, but I also don't avoid things which I believe are a minute risk (same goes for me aswell as my birds - I don't wear a seatbelt for example).

I have just invested in some UV lights and better food though. Does anyone know an equivalent to "Harrisons high potency" food which isn't so expensive?

The only avian vet near me advertises as avian, but also sees any pet. I think they have some vets for avian and some for others, as I've been told I have to come in on certain days. So you shouldn't always assume just because a vet practice sees dogs that they're unsuitable for parrots.