Our new Ekky seems to hate us!!!

[ScottB]

Hi all,
We picked up our new family addition at the weekend; "Fergus" is a male Solomon Island Eclectus. He is my first parrot, and I suppose many of you will consider me foolish for choosing an Eclectus, but in my defense I did my homework on the species and thought that I'd prepared well....however things haven't gone too smoothly!
Fergus was raised with his brother by aviary parents, routinely taken in to a family home and socialized, and eventually permanently separated from the parents in the final weeks before collection. Fergus seemed happy enough on collection but he became quite skittish when we got him home and attempted to fly from us at every opportunity. This was not good as he has had a single wing clip and drops to the ground like a stone! I cannot wait for his new flight feathers to grow because I am so frightened he's going to hurt himself.
I recognize leaving home is a big deal, and he was probably even more traumatized by the couple of crash landings he has had, but he doesn't seem to be settling....I know it hasn't been long but he's really withdrawn and fluffs up when anyone comes near him. He doesn't seem to like to come out of his cage and lunges at your hand when you attempt to pick him up; although there's no real intent there and he does step up really well.
Without blowing my own trumpet too much, I think I've done pretty well with his home set up. I bought him the most amazing (huge) cage which I have decked out with (safe) gum tree branches/perches, thick rope ladders, natural wood bridges/swings/rings, as well as toys (all correct materials, no dye, no zinc), and I include natural foraging materials like tree branches (non toxic), pine cones, bottlebrushes etc. I have also strictly adhered to feeding him when we eat in the morning/evening outside of his cage at a separate platform. Provided he's still not eating I take the food away after 1 hour, and only provide small snacks through the day available only through foraging in his cage.
My biggest concern is that he isn't eating much fruit. To date I have offered him apple (not much, no seeds), pear, mandarin, strawberries, banana, paw paw, kiwi fruit but he hardly touches any of it; someone at a local market told me I should persist and that Ekky's turn on and off to foods frequently (hopefully, because I just froze a months supply of individual day bags of that very mix!). He also doesn't drink water which is even more concerning. He much prefers veggies and of course seed. He loves peas, corn, quinoa, a little brown rice, and steamed pumpkin/sweet potato/carrot. He will not touch any of the peppers or chillies I have offered him and seems to just toss his leafy greens around. I only give him a small quantity of seed each day, but this is the only thing that makes him happy (i had to google beak grinding!).
Also not sure if its relevant but he was really smelly this evening? It's probably my fault because I have held off introducing him to the shower due to how he has been. I have misted him a couple of times but from what I was reading on the forum, this has probably not been enough. I was actually quite impressed at how well he took to the shower.
Sorry I realize this is quite long winded, so some questions:

Am I doing the right thing by backing off him and allowing him space or should I be handling him as frequently as possible?

Am I doing the right thing with feeding patterns; ie. taking to a perch/stand for meals when we eat, and making him forage during the day for snacks?

Should I be more concerned by his lack of interest in fruit at the moment?

Should I be concerned that he's not touching the fresh water I provide? Do you think he would get enough hydration from the stuff he is eating?

How long do you think it will be before he gets new flight feathers? I have read conflicting opinions.

Any opinions regarding offering meat proteins? (does anyone else feel that chicken is wrong? like cannibalism? lol)

Any suggestions regarding fruit; probably all as different as their personalities, but are there fruits that are universally loved by Ekky's?

I want to create a "safe" seed butter to press in to pine cones as a foraging activity; anyone tried this specifically with Ekky's?

Any good chop recipes for beginners anyone like to share?

Thanks to anyone who took the time to wade through all that, any wisdom offered will be gratefully received! Cheers all, look forward to hearing from you, Scott.

 

[ChristaNL]

Not an "ekky-person" myself, but was he used to eat outside the cage before he came home with you?

Just asking because it can do crazy things if they have to eat their main meals where there are not feeling comfortable (yet).

(When D. came with me she would not eat in her cage / she kept her own cage she was used to since she was baby! 14 years ago/ -- or at all, till I remembered she also used to snack from the cats foodbowls in the kitchen ... so I put a stoneware feeding bowl in the windowsil and she reluctantly ate there / but only if I was sitting near her and typing at the same time ... )

That how I learned it is not only about the meal you offer, but also where you give it to them.

(after a few weeks she also snacked from the bowl when I put it in the cage with her after she ate outside, and progressed from there)


I can't tell you anything usefull about diet, but I would come over for some of that fruitsalade! It sounds absolutely yummy!
(I do recall they should eat more vegies than fruit anyway- so thats probably going allright?)


Does he smell bad all over the feathers or just from the beak?

 

[chris-md]

Hello Scott

Welcome to the forums. We’ve got quite an active Ekkie population here very willing to help.

You’ve done some research, and are getting there. You’ve asked a LOT of questions, more than could possibly be answered in one thread. You might chunk it out into a few different threads on their own topics. It will help you get concise answers to all your questions. It’s ok to flood the forum with questions

Before I even begin answering about the behavior, a point has been obscured, possibly a language barrier (I’m guessing youre in the U.K.?): was this bird hand reared or parent reared?

Why are you trying to “pick up” the bird? I’m assuming you’re distinguishing betweeen pick up and step up, because you say he steps up fine. Ekkies are a more sensitive species who don’t take to being manhandled well at all. If pick up here really does mean that, please stop. They don’t even really like to be pet, let alone “picked up”.


Regarding food:

Your source is correct. Ekkies are picky children and it takes persistence to get them to eat some stuff. The key is vary up HOW you serve. Kiwis are great for them: if you serves slices and get rejected, serve chunks, or serve up just the whole unadulterated fruit.

I’ve also resorted to sticking almond slivers into the fruit so he has to dig throw the fruit to get to almonds. That has worked for me.

Peppers: try rings, slices, whole fruit, even run it through a food processor and chop it up really fine. Many of us make big batches of chop, and freeze it. Many of the ingredients are run through a food processor so they can’t go through and pick out what they don’t want to eat.

Apples: it took throwing the fruit onto his play stand 5 times or so before he found interest in it. Now he’ll happily go after an apple. But apples aren’t very nutritious, mostly sugar, so offer this up rarely. Tropical fruits, those that are colored throughout the fruit, are more important. Citrus isn’t great, too much acid. Rarely offer this. I love navel oranges and eat them frequently when in season but I don’t offer this up for my boy.

That’s said, take it easy on the fruits. Ekkies need a high fiber/low sugar diet, and fruits are high in sugar. Fruit should be no more than 5-10% of their diet. In a mix of 5-10 ingredients, only one of those should be fruit.

Also, be cautious with corn. Ekkies are particularly suceptible to a condition called toe tapping. It’s a neurological condition that creates involuntary contractions in your birds feet, making the toes tap. The exact cause of toe tapping is unknown, but has been linked to diet. Corn is one of the biggest culprits, though not for every bird. If you notice your bird tapping his toes, back off the corn.

This should get you started but I do need to know more about how the bird was reared first before advising the behavior issue.

Generally speaking you move at the birds pace, and you may be pushing him too far. You’ll need to work at learning his earning sign. Some birds are happy to come out and interact right away, others need time. Yours might need more time.

 

[EllenD]

Welcome to the community, and congrats on your new fid!

I can't help you much with the particulars of an Ekkie diet, as I've not every had much experience with feeding them or even interacting with the much, except the ones that have come into the avian rescue I work at...What I can tell you about their diet, as Chris has already mentioned to you, is that you must be very careful about things that you are feeding them and the quantities of each they are getting, such as corn, seed, etc., as if you're not, they can develop some extremely serious physical, psychological, and behavioral issues quickly. And with any species of bird/parrot (except the Lories and a few other exceptions), you need to think of fresh fruit as the smallest part of their daily diet, if not their every-other-day diet, or even less than that, due to the high sugar content. Other than that, I'll leave the Ekkie diet tips to the Ekkie experts...

What I can help you with is his behavior thus far since you brought him home a few days ago...First of all, regardless of his breeding/raising situation, having a new bird home only for a few days is no time at all, and it's far too soon to start worrying about him being skitterish or unfriendly. He needs to settle-in to his new home and environment, new cage, new toys, and most of all, his new people. That goes for any baby bird going to it's new home...And you must go at HIS PACE, not your pace, as you absolutely cannot force him or push him, that will only make things go backwards.

***That being said, I'm guessing from the way you described his breeding set-up that he is a parent-raised bird, not a hand-raised or hand-fed bird; this in and of itself is not a huge deal, it's very possible to hand-tame a parent-raised parrot, especially one who is still a very young baby, it's just about committing to spending a good amount of time with him every single day, giving him out-of-cage-time every single day with a minimum of 4-5 hours a day, locating his main-cage in the "room where the action is" in your home, meaning the room in your home where the people spend most of their time when they're home, usually the living room, family room, TV room, etc., so that even if he is not being "directly" interacted with and is in his cage, he's still in the presence of his people, he can still see the people who are home, and he will become comfortable with people much more quickly, and feel comfortable and secure enough to entertain himself inside of his cage with his toys just because he's among his family. Also, a bird that can hear people are home but can't see them, usually because they are put in a spare bedroom or a "bird room", usually starts screaming and will not typically entertain themselves at all...So if you're watching TV, reading a book, talking, playing a video game, eating meals, etc., you want his cage in the room that you do these things in most of the time...

****That being said, I think what you explained/meant in your post is that his parents were kept in an outdoor-aviary, they were not indoor birds, and so the babies were raised outdoors as well, as opposed to being raised inside the home with people...This can create an added-element to the "parent-raised" baby bird behavior, as most parent-raised parrots are still around people, or at least one person (the breeder), all day long, every day...So even though they are not fed by a person or handled quite as much (if at all) by a person while they are growing up, they still see and hear people all day long, have people walking past them all day long, etc...With a parent-raised baby that was raised in an outdoor aviary, they didn't get that extra layer of human-interaction...

I know you mentioned that he was "brought inside every day for time with the people", but obviously he wasn't handled much, if at all, and it's just simply not the same thing as having even a parent-raised baby being raised inside the house where they are constantly hearing and seeing people. Just hearing people talking all day long puts them way ahead on the human-interaction...So the bottom-line is that your guy very-well may take some extra time to simply settle-down and feel comfortable around people enough for him to cooperate with training...It's just all about committing to working with him every single day, and trying to incorporate him in any household/family activities and time together as you can. Just having him in the same room with you/people in the house as much as possible will help incredibly. He has to become accustom to people being around him all day long, which he just hasn't had up until this point...It will happen, it's just about time and great patience...

*************Something that alarmed me greatly was what you said about his wing-clipping...Forgetting that they obviously clipped way too many feathers and took more than just a few primaries if he's "dropping like a stone" (horrible for a breeder to do this, by the way), but did you mean that the breeder only clipped ONE OF HIS WINGS? Meaning just the right wing, or just the left wing, and not both equally? If so, this is extremely dangerous and needs to be corrected ASAP by someone who knows how to clip wings. I can't believe that an actual breeder would clip only one wing...that's crazy...let alone clip so much that he cannot glide to the floor (although only having one side clipped may have a great deal to do with him dropping like a stone too)...When they have only one wing clipped they have absolutely no control at all, none! Usually when a bird only has one wing clipped they become injured at some point, it's very common for that to happen. They cannot glide to land, they cannot turn to avoid anything, they are simply helpless and basically handicapped, and at extreme risk for severely injuring themselves. This isn't done at all anymore that I'm aware of, as people wised-up and realized how dangerous it is...that's why I'm shocked that his breeder would do that to him...maybe I misunderstood what you meant, I hope so...But if not, if he only has one of his wings clipped, please get him to someone like a vet, a pet shop that has birds, etc. who can clip the other wing...And also, they should only take the outermost 3-4 Primary Flight Feathers when they clip them...

 

[ScottB]

Hi ChistaNL

Thank you for taking the time.

He did eat outside the cage with the breeder; I was told that he was taken in from the aviary regularly and offered snacks prior to being permanently separated, and then pretty much resided on a large stand/gym indoors where he was fed. Initially I did feed him in his cage, mainly because of how freaked out he was, but now I have bought a stand that looks very much like the one he used and have him out and eating whilst my family and I are eating.

I've been reading a lot about how the presentation of food can determine its acceptance; fussy much?! I started this morning by chopping some capsicum and chilli in a different way; had to fly for work so don't know how successful its been yet.

The odour was all over. It wasn't just a "birdy" smell (rescued a few injured birds over the years and this is the only way I can describe that common smell), it was really quite unpleasant. Showering allowed me to check him closely for any wounds are infected areas and there was nothing to see. He smells much better this morning; I've keep up with the showers!

Thanks again!
Scott.

 

[ScottB]

Hi all,

Thank you all for the fantastic response; I aim to get back to each of you but at work at the moment so will take me a little time!
Scott.

 

[ScottB]

Hi chris-md,

Thank you for taking the time to respond! and yes, it was a little bit of an overload sorry, bit of a combination of worry and excitement I think, plus there seems to be so much variation in opinion regarding Eclectus.

That was a really good spot; I am from the UK but I actually call Australia home.

Fergus was parent reared I suppose; he was apparently taken from the aviary frequently and introduced to people in the household, and then finally separated permanently from his parents a couple of weeks before I collected him. He seemed extremely comfortable around the couple who sold him, and with me and my two children handling him in their company.

Yeah sorry, to clarify, when I stated "pick up" I really mean offer my hand for Fergus to "step up". Fergus is quite clear about he prefers to be handled!

Thank you for all the great stuff about food. I have been reading quite a bit since I posted about the importance of the presentation of food; I have a few days off work coming up and intend to use this time to experiment. Read a fair bit about toe tapping and wing flipping but didn't realize corn was a culprit, thank you.

I'm all for giving him the time he needs to adjust; my biggest concern really was that a delay, or a break in the continuity of human contact might be a set back. I talk to him a fair bit but only handle him a minimal amount at the moment. His cage is currently in the living space so that he can acclimatize to the family, but I am keeping the children away from him for now (much to their frustration!) so that he is not overloaded.

Thanks again for all the info.
Scott.

 

[ScottB]

Hi EllenD,

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, some really useful stuff!

I totally agree about taking things at his pace, I suppose I was just uncertain and didn't want to potentially make things worse by backing off. Sounds like parent raised birds require additional patience in the beginning; I can do that.

I have set him up in our living room at home so that he can get used to us all, but I do plan to move his cage outside during the day when the weather starts to warm up...just need to keep an eye out for pythons! (I wouldn't leave him outside unattended).

Yeah, I read a lot about wing clipping before I collected Fergus. I know it's a hotly debated topic, although most can agree that a single wing clip is unwise. But this is what he has, and its pretty severe too. His right wing is half the size of his left, when I take him out on to the lawn during the day he attempts to take flight and is promptly turned back on himself...he's about as aerially un-dynamic as a bird can get! Do you think that clipping the other wing would help given the extent of the initial clip? I'm more than disappointed by this particularly as I had planned to introduce a flight harness early on in the hope that I wouldn't need to clip.

Thanks again Ellen,
Scott.

 

[ChristaNL]

Just my 2 cents - as horrible as the clip is ... yes, make it symmetrical!
Plze.

That way he can at least use his wings for balancing en playing, talking (yes they also speak by wingposturing a lot!) etc. without flipping himself over.

You'll have to wait till he molts for one wing to grow back in, so clipping the second wont make a difference in that process at all...


(just keep going with the harnesstraining as planned, even if he doesn't fly... learning to tolerate it is a vital step anyway, and even a clipped bird can still run off when you don't want him to / unsafe situations)

 

[Scott]

Welcome to you and Fergus, Scott!!

Ekkies can be rather stoic and appear "dumb" or disinterested. There is a lot going on in their heads, and they are very susceptible to good training and behavior modification techniques.

Is the odor you notice something new? Parrots can have a distinctive aroma, but not typically unpleasant. Has Fergus had a well-check with a certified avian vet or equivalent?

Ekkie dietary needs can be challenging; one solution to ignored veggies is to chop them finely and mix with the "acceptable" items.

 

[EllenD]

Absolutely you need to get the other wing clipped ASAP and make them as symmetrical as possible, though I wouldn't dare clip the other wing to the extent that the one is now...You just want to clip the outermost 4 or so primary flight feathers on the other wing...Exactly what you described is what I feared, the fact that he is "Turning-over on himself", that's exactly what I've seen happen in the past when someone does this to a bird, and it always seems to end in a bad injury to the bird, usually to one of the wings, because they are constantly trying to gain control when trying to fly or trying to descend to the ground, and they end-up not ever being able to land on their feet, but rather on their face, on their outstretched wing, etc.

You need to do this for his protection and safety. Keep something in-mind, I am a lot more "lenient" in my views about wing-clipping, I've clipped many a non-tame bird's wings right before starting the hand-taming process, and I've recommended doing this to many new members who are having issues taming their birds...I've also taken some heat about my views on this, but the fact remains that if their wings are clipped properly then it's completely safe, painless, and very temporary. If you only clip the outermost 3-4 primary flight feathers on each wing, and you only take-off enough on the end of each wing that you can't see the cut-edges when they are sitting normally, they will grow-back and regain their ability to fly within 1-2 months. I don't personally believe in keeping a bird clipped long-term unless there is a situation in the home, a situation with a person in the home, a health problem with the bird, etc., something going on that makes keeping the bird from flying a must...But doing a proper, temporary clip of the outermost 3-4 primaries on both wings is totally acceptable for a month or two in order to gain trust and for training...That's my belief...So I'm not at all a stickler on not clipping wings...

However, all of that being said, clipping their wings incredibly short like this breeder did is both totally unnecessary and serves absolutely no purpose at all, but it also makes the re-growth time excessively long....BUT, when someone only clips one of the bird's wings and it's not a symmetric clip, this is endangering the bird's well-being and potentially their life, and it can result in some enormously high Avian Vet bills for surgery to repair broken wings, broken legs, and ruptured air-sacs (I've seen this a few times in birds who had really bad landings)...So yes, please go and get his other wing clipped, I think you'll be shocked to see how much better he's going to be able to "glide" to the floor and control his descents...If you feel comfortable clipping it, since you have some experience with birds, then by all means go ahead...But since you're going to no-doubt have to towel him to do it, be sure to make the towel the "bad guy" by letting him attach it, chew on it, etc...This is the main reason I suggested finding an Avian Vet or an Exotic's Vet, or a bird shop employee to do it, so that you're not the "bad guy"...Just make sure to tell them that you only want the outermost 3-4 primaries clipped and that's it, otherwise they might try to match it up with the butchered wing, and you don't want that...It's probably going to be necessary to clip this other wing more than just one time, as it will need to give time for the butchered wing to catch-up in the re-growth process..

I absolutely cannot believe that an Eclectus breeder would do this to one of their babies...I hope to God that they at least allowed him to fully-fledge before they decided to butcher one of his wings...This just blows me away...

 

[ScottB]

Hi Scott,
Thanks for taking the time to respond, and sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

The odour seemed to resolve well after the shower I gave Fergus. Since then I have been misting him every other day which he isn't particularly found of, but this seems to be keeping him smelling ok

I took him to a local vet for a health check and clip (to even him out) last week but I wasn't that impressed with the service and plan to take him next week to an exclusively avian practice down the coast.


Thanks for the advice about the veggies, its been working quite well! I read somewhere before I collected Fergus that the Eclectus can be a messy eater; they weren't kidding!!!


Thanks again,

Scott.

 

[ScottB]

Hi EllenD,

Thanks again for the advice. I took Fergus to a local vet the next day but was really disappointed with there stance regarding clipping; not sure whether it was purely based on "principal" or whether in fact it was rooted in inexperience but the vet was insistent that she would only trip a few of the primary flight feathers (could only have been one or two from what I can see) which hasn't made an awful lot of difference.


Your stance regarding clipping in general is pretty well aligned with my own; I was going to get a minimal (bilateral!) clip myself to get me through the bonding process and the time necessary to acclimatize to a flight harness, but longer term I would prefer that Fergus is able to use his wings despite the potential for disaster.


I have an appointment with another vet that specializes exclusively in bird care but I'm not sure how it'll go regarding the clipping; they do not provide a clipping service normally, but I hope that they will assist in this case so that Fergus is safe.
In the meantime I've been really careful during contact with Fergus, and I'm pleased that he is beginning to seem more at ease around me....perhaps he doesn't hate me at all!


Thanks again for all your input.


Scott.

 

[Ekkyparrotlet125]

Hi! I read your post and had to respond because your eckie sounds just like mine when I first got him! It took mine a good month and a half to warm up to me and feel comfortable in our house (he was adopted at age 7), so don't stress it. He'll warm up. I found that keeping mine in a busier part of the house where he could hear but not be forced into the action really helped get him out of his shell. Keep trying the fruit, and I completely agree with Chris-md; try presenting his food differently/ cutting it up smaller or larger. Mine seems to love anything cut small like rice.. that's the only way I can get him to eat broccoli, cauliflower, etc. I'm a newbie with large parrots as well and the eclectus is definitely a bit of a challenge compared to my parrotlet, but once you get into the groove of things it'll become much easier. It helps to keep frozen organic fruits and veggies in the freezer for quick meals, and prepare some staples such as brown rice/oatmeal at the beginning of the week so you will have it on hand to mix in. Good luck with your new little guy!!

 

[Scott]

Hi Scott,
Thanks for taking the time to respond, and sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

The odour seemed to resolve well after the shower I gave Fergus. Since then I have been misting him every other day which he isn't particularly found of, but this seems to be keeping him smelling ok

I took him to a local vet for a health check and clip (to even him out) last week but I wasn't that impressed with the service and plan to take him next week to an exclusively avian practice down the coast.


Thanks for the advice about the veggies, its been working quite well! I read somewhere before I collected Fergus that the Eclectus can be a messy eater; they weren't kidding!!!


Thanks again,

Scott.

Glad the odour resolved after showering, must have been dirty! Periodic water treatment should keep Fergus more pleasant and healthier!

Another solution to the finicky eater syndrome is to prepare two bowls of veggies/fruits; one for you, the other for Fergus. Start eating the problematic foods, bob your head, make mmmm sounds like a little kid. Birds are flock-eaters; when one begins the others typically follow, and you are part of his flock!

 

[Taw5106]

Hi there,

Sounds like you have done well with the food options and home setup, it may take some time for your Ekkie to adjust. When we brought Venus home (female Ekkie), she was picky about food AND we kept her in her cage. After she came home with us she displayed some aggression at night, over a few weeks she warmed up. She became the queen of the house, she roamed all in and out of her cage, each morning our routine was I would scoop her her off her cage, we’d make coffee, parrot breakfast, feed the dogs, let the dogs outside, sit and I’d drink my coffee, she’d eat her breakfast and try to drink my coffee.

Continue what you are doing, give him time, keep offering a wide variety of food options. It takes time and patience but he will come around and get his groove on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ScottB]

Hi Ekkyparrotlet125,

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Always nice to know that someone has been there before! hopefully I can turn things around as well as you have.

I have already found out (the hard way!) about the presentation of food; fussy much?! ha,ha I have had some success with freezing various mixes, I have found that some fruit doesn't de-frost well and seems to spoil everything that's with it (annoying). Fergus loves lentils, brown rice, and quinoa; sunday afternoons will never be the same!

Thanks again,
Scott.

 

[ScottB]

Hi Scott,
Thanks again!

Yeah, he really was quite smelly! I've been spraying him every other day since his shower and this has helped heaps.

I have been trying the "eating in front of the parrot routine" with Fergus, but clearly I have not been putting enough effort in to it! ha,ha I didn't bob my head but will now you mention it! lol


Cheers,
Scott.

 

[ScottB]

Hi Taw5106,

Thank you for taking the time to respond!

I guess patience is the key! Its good to know that so many others have experienced the same teething problems though. I'm not sure what I was expecting really, just wasn't expecting to be so worried about everything he does or doesn't do! ha,ha

Thanks again,
Scott.