- Jan 19, 2014
- 14,247
- 222
- Parrots
- Red Bellied Parrot /
Ruppell's Parrot /
Bronze Winged Pionus /
English Budgie
- Thread starter
- #21
Yes! It does make sense to me. Thanks Mark. From following other threads, I know there are people here who firmly believe ONLY in the other method (Heidenreich's as an example), but as was discussed before in this thread, these old school ways for certain birds DO give results and I know this, I just wanted to see some support since my other group chastized me for it and made me question the old tried and true.
As I went to try the 'other method only' this time around with Raven... target training, (passive) positive reinforcement - even after some time, we got nowhere with a bird who isn't big on food treats, and who's first priority was to prove to me that he will get his way no matter what.
I had to show him what I needed him to do and if I needed it done NOW because I have to leave the house for example, he doesn't get a choice (as I look at my watch) or bedtime, or whatever which needs to be done at a certain time and can't wait til he feels like it.
I have not had to towel him, but I do gently pry his foot up to step up. If we have time, then I ladder him, put him down and repeat. He will yell and complain, but he does GET IT. If he is not "doing anything important" such as eating, preening, sleeping, he will not step up most times because he is testing me. He looks at my finger then back up at me, looks at my finger then back at me again. Or he'll act like he wants to come out, then bite. I ignore his painful (yet still not full strength bites) and stare him in the eye with a firm no. With that, I will say "gentle... gentle" in a soft voice while having calm body language. He finally is GETTING BETTER about that and will many times tone down his bites and make them softer, since he is learning what "gentle" means, and that biting isn't getting him anywhere. Of course still had bad days though like all of us.
This is an exceptionally stubborn bird in my experience who will try to test me constantly (especially for a species not known to be this way) so thank you again to all who support the "old school" methods being appropriate for CERTAIN BIRDS. If the bird is NOT scared, and is being very headstrong and seeing just what he can get away with for the heck of it, I know that the "old school" ways do produce faster results. I've done it before, and it is not cruel. Of course then the positive reinforcement comes like Birdman said, just in a different way.
OF COURSE that being said - with a scared or timid bird, different methods are called for as to not cause the bird to become more fearful or untrusting. That should be common sense!
*It all depends on the bird* how we go about it, but there will ALWAYS be controversy on this topic!!!
I think it all boils down to "There's more than one way to skin a cat" ... not that I want to skin cats :52:
As I went to try the 'other method only' this time around with Raven... target training, (passive) positive reinforcement - even after some time, we got nowhere with a bird who isn't big on food treats, and who's first priority was to prove to me that he will get his way no matter what.
I had to show him what I needed him to do and if I needed it done NOW because I have to leave the house for example, he doesn't get a choice (as I look at my watch) or bedtime, or whatever which needs to be done at a certain time and can't wait til he feels like it.
I have not had to towel him, but I do gently pry his foot up to step up. If we have time, then I ladder him, put him down and repeat. He will yell and complain, but he does GET IT. If he is not "doing anything important" such as eating, preening, sleeping, he will not step up most times because he is testing me. He looks at my finger then back up at me, looks at my finger then back at me again. Or he'll act like he wants to come out, then bite. I ignore his painful (yet still not full strength bites) and stare him in the eye with a firm no. With that, I will say "gentle... gentle" in a soft voice while having calm body language. He finally is GETTING BETTER about that and will many times tone down his bites and make them softer, since he is learning what "gentle" means, and that biting isn't getting him anywhere. Of course still had bad days though like all of us.
This is an exceptionally stubborn bird in my experience who will try to test me constantly (especially for a species not known to be this way) so thank you again to all who support the "old school" methods being appropriate for CERTAIN BIRDS. If the bird is NOT scared, and is being very headstrong and seeing just what he can get away with for the heck of it, I know that the "old school" ways do produce faster results. I've done it before, and it is not cruel. Of course then the positive reinforcement comes like Birdman said, just in a different way.
OF COURSE that being said - with a scared or timid bird, different methods are called for as to not cause the bird to become more fearful or untrusting. That should be common sense!
*It all depends on the bird* how we go about it, but there will ALWAYS be controversy on this topic!!!
I think it all boils down to "There's more than one way to skin a cat" ... not that I want to skin cats :52: