Not splinting okay?

I don't know. I guess this is how I see it, if you think your child, dog, cat, tortoise, etc possibly has a broken bone how do you not take it/them to the doc.?
 
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Well, that went horrifically. I was preparing myself for the worst, but I was in no way prepared for what happened.

First, you may as well see the message I sent her yesterday. This was about 4 days after the baby hurt his leg. Three days after he'd hurt himself, I asked about his condition and whether it was going to be splinted or what, and she said she was going to let it heal on its own because she'd had birds with splints still heal poorly.

So, that was when I started to feel a little uncomfortable and came her to ask you guys what to do.

Here's the message I sent her after I talked to many people who were similarly uncomfortable with the handling of the situation. I have not been trying to make any demands or be confrontational. This message was meant to clarify things and open discussion. PLEASE feel free to comment and critique this message. I am trying to see where I screwed up.

Here it is:
"May I ask why the baby has not seen an avian vet for an expert opinion on how best to treat his leg?[FONT=Calibri,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]
I would really like to see him get well. It's extremely difficult not to get attached through the photos and watching the little babies grow up.

When I started looking for a breeder of green cheeks, I contacted you with great excitement because of your glowing reputation and obvious love for and knowledge of birds and all creatures. I stand by my choice and still think you're certainly one of the best bird breeders I could have chosen, by far.

But, I can't help but feel that as a breeder and caretaker, it should be in your best interest to get avian vet care and opinions when the health of your babies as well as the reputation of your business is at stake. I was a little surprised that a seemingly severe injury has not been looked at by a doctor; I presumed that would be the first course of action, as it surely would be if it happened here.

I hope this message does not come across as offensive. I mean no harm, and I love and greatly respect everything that you do. I am still very interested in this baby, but I am predominantly interested in his complete well-being. I'm not 100% sure how I'd feel buying one from the next clutch, knowing that this one may have been okay with vet care.

If I have stepped on toes or overstepped bounds, I greatly apologize. I just wanted to make sure I spoke my feelings on this matter, since any bird is a very long-term investment and I'm being very careful in my decisions.

Thanks, and I hope to hear back from you soon.
Best wishes always,
~(name)"

Her only response to this message was to ask for my phone number. I was a little nervous, but assumed she just wanted to talk in real time to get things nicely figured out.

NOPE.

She called to be upset with me and refuse to work with me, and that's all.
She started by being offended that I had dared to call her work a business. I didn't mean any harm by it!! When you breed and sell animals and make taxable income on it... is that an inappropriate term? I didn't think I'd cheapened her work by saying that - I made it clear in my message that I admire what she does. :/ But she wouldn't say anything else to me before clarifying that it's a "passion", not a business. Okie dokie then.

The only other thing she had to say was that it's clear that I don't "trust" her and so she's sending my deposit back. I was completely baffled and caught off guard, so I wasn't sure how to react.

I managed to say that I was very confused and wanted to work something out. There was a long pause, and then she just repeated that I obviously didn't trust her.

And that was that.

Keep in mind again, this is the most reputable breeder I could find... refusing to sell to me, not really because I didn't TRUST her. Did I not make it clear in my message that I thought she was a great breeder and I just was concerned about the health of this baby?

I have NO idea what to make of this or how to handle it. I would like to get the word out so people know that this well-known breeder won't take your baby to a vet if it gets hurt, and will just refuse to sell it to you if you dare to suggest it should maybe see the vet. Any good ideas how to put this word out?

I really do want to say something to her about all this as well. I was caught COMPLETELY off guard and really would have liked to actually ask questions or open some kind of discussion about what the heck was going on. I feel like I have no closure. I thought things were going to be worked out, I was stepping carefully and just looking for some comfort and assurance that the baby would be alright. And then she just calls me up and stonewalls all discussion, just saying she's sending my money back and refusing to talk about it at all. It's really weird. But would saying anything more be a good idea at this point (obviously, I'd wait until after the money comes back).

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As always, thoughts, comments, advice, or anything else would be appreciated.


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Wow. I've been reading and watching over your thread and I'm completely appalled at how she handled this situation. You were not in the wrong in any way to call it a business- it is something that somebody does that brings in a source of income, be it for support or recreation, it is a business, especially if you are advertising your services in any way. The fact that she denied her "passion" being a business is a red flag.
Not only that, but if birds were her "passion" the avian vet would have been the first place to go after ANY injury or reason for doubt in the health of a bird. That's another red flag.
I think you worded your email very professionally, had I been the breeder I would not have been upset at all by your words(however I'd have been to a vet, since I really am paranoid about the well being of my pets.) so I have no idea why she acted that way.

I, too, am very upset for you and your bird you were so excited about. The poor baby. Not only him, though, how many others will be hurt/deceased because of her negligence and refusal of vet care? You could argue that "nature will take it's course" but when your business is breeding ANYTHING to be a pet or companion, YOU are the parent and must take responsibility for the animals' injuries and illnesses.

About saying anything else; good on your for waiting for the money to come back, I would have been a smart a$$ and said something like "Use my deposit on the vet bill, and let me take the green cheek. I'll get him the care he needs." or something mean.. but honestly, I feel like in this situation if you were to say anything, she wouldn't even answer. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if she ignored emails/phone calls form this point forward, she's already made such a big deal out of it herself there's not much she can do at this point to redeem herself or justify her actions.

I'm so sorry again that this all happened. Everything happens for a reason though, as confusing as it may be. I'm confident that you'll find the perfect bird for you and give him a wonderful life-time home, you seem like you really know what you're getting into and you'll do wonderfully with your new friend when the right time comes along.

~rant over~
 
Personally, I would get my money back, leave a (detailed) review outlining your experience with her (if possible) as a warning to other potential buyers and look into different breeders. I don't think anything you say or do at this point will allow you to bring this baby home. And might I add, this woman sounds like a real piece of work! NOTHING about your email was rude or offensive, and it clearly conveyed (to me at least) all you wanted was reassurance this bird you were going to pay her money for and have in your care for the next x-amount of years in it's lifespan was not disabled unnecessarily. Her response was childish and unprofessional. Even "I have done this before" or "I feel I have this situation handled, but if _______ resolution would make you feel better, then lets work on arranging that". Something like that would have been better than taking her blocks and going home. And in the context she used it, "passion" sounds more like a gimmick she defends feverishly because she knows "passion" is a "hot button" word for potential buyers that sells more birds than "I breed to make a buck". This woman is greedy, uncaring and those traits show. I am so sorry for the injured baby who is not getting the medical care he needs and I am sorry you have to start at square one :(. What an unfortunate situation.
 
We just got home tonight... its funny I thought of you today and was wondering how the phone call went.

I am so sorry for you and I know it has to be upsetting to not be able to bring home this baby after watching him for weeks. BUT.... in the long run, might be in your best interest. I am taking a wild guess that she does not take any of the babies to the vet... Our favorite breeder (Chambersburg, PA) takes every baby to the vet for a check before they go home, even her cockatiels. I know that breeder is passionate about her birds, it shows in all the cute photos she takes, even long after the birds are sold and until they go home. Not just a pic of the bird sitting on the table or on a hand, but she does all these cute little backgrounds and pics with props, etc. And pics of her cuddling on the sofa at night with different babies. And again, every baby sees a vet for an all around wellness, no problems / illness check.

The fact that this woman did not immediately rush the baby to the vet is just a huge warning... she only seems a wonderful caring breeder because she has not been caught in this position before or no one has questioned her... I am sure something similar has happened, but when she said she had experience and this is how she deals with it, someone new to birds would probably be inclined to believe her because she does put on such a good sweet loving facade... The fact you questioned her and challenged her is the show of her true colors. If she was doing the right thing, she would not be upset with you, she would simply explain why or what her logic and reason is... the whole tirade you shared from her is a complete projection to make YOU the problem, to try to make you feel guilty or wrong for questioning her... not sure, but I am guessing she doesn't walk on water...

You did nothing wrong, your email was very polite and not in the least offensive... the only reason she wants you to think you were offensive is because she knows she is wrong. For so many reasons that baby should have seen a vet... she thinks its broken, what if its not, what if something else is wrong, what if there is more damage, what if there is infection? But why did that baby not see a vet... simply because it would have cost her money... Passion my behind... maybe passion about what she wants to buy with the money you will be paying her for that bird, but nothing else.

Again, I am so so sorry for what you are feeling, but when you get the deposit back, you need to post the information about this breeder. Check out birdbreeders.com, see if she has an account. Leave her feedback. Do a general search of her name, anywhere you find her info with options to review, post your story. If she posts on craigslist, post a review, be prepared she will have it removed, but just post it over and over again. Post the info here on the parrotforums.

Good luck!!
 
Wow. So sorry about this:(. I remember it was a very reputable breeder you chose. Shame on her for her overreaction to your concern! I'm a firm believer in things happen for a reason. This either means that your baby is waiting for you in some other breeders home and you will find him soon, or maybe she is having an emotional day and will weigh her reaction and apologize and promise to take your baby to the vet for yours and her peace of mind and the deal will go through. Either way it will work out.

Hugs.
 
I feel so badly for you, and especially for that baby bird, who missed out on a loving home, and who also could be in a lot of pain, if his leg is broken.

Did you sign a contract with her?
 
Holy cow! I am dumb founded. :eek: I certainly didn't expect her to react like this.

There is NOTHING wrong with your email to her, on the contrary, it's well thought out, well written and not accusatory in the least. It clearly shows you have the welfare of the chick at heart.

I personally would wait to get my money refunded (as she promised) and then leave feedback for her everywhere you can. If she's on BirdBreeder, that would be a good start.

You WILL find your special baby, no doubt in my mind about that. I am so sorry you had to listen to her go off on you - that was just plain WRONG for her to do. Her "passion?" Passion my butt! :mad:
 
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Thank you all for the responses! After having slept on it (very poorly... stress messes badly with my sleep), I see more clearly how just plain weird this situation was. And not my fault. It's hard not to let the disappointment and hurt at how she treated me turn into anger.

The fact that this woman did not immediately rush the baby to the vet is just a huge warning... she only seems a wonderful caring breeder because she has not been caught in this position before or no one has questioned her... I am sure something similar has happened, but when she said she had experience and this is how she deals with it, someone new to birds would probably be inclined to believe her because she does put on such a good sweet loving facade... The fact you questioned her and challenged her is the show of her true colors. If she was doing the right thing, she would not be upset with you, she would simply explain why or what her logic and reason is... the whole tirade you shared from her is a complete projection to make YOU the problem, to try to make you feel guilty or wrong for questioning her... not sure, but I am guessing she doesn't walk on water...
And this is why, exactly. You NAILED it. This "you don't trust me" stuff was a mantra she used over the phone. She said it at least two or three times and when I expressed confusion and desire to work things out, she just paused and repeated it.

So, yes, it's hard to interpret this any other way but that she has not been questioned in this situation before and was angry. It was totally shocking to have somebody who seems, through emails and everything on her website, to be just as nice and sweet as can be and care COMPLETELY about the birds... just turn on me like that. And all because I had the nerve, the gall, to suggest that maaaaaaybe a tiny baby bird with a broken leg should see a vet for an expert opinion?

Our favorite breeder (Chambersburg, PA) takes every baby to the vet for a check before they go home, even her cockatiels. I know that breeder is passionate about her birds, it shows in all the cute photos she takes, even long after the birds are sold and until they go home. Not just a pic of the bird sitting on the table or on a hand, but she does all these cute little backgrounds and pics with props, etc. And pics of her cuddling on the sofa at night with different babies. And again, every baby sees a vet for an all around wellness, no problems / illness check.
This breeder (I guess it's okay to mention that this is Pampered Peeps, btw, a well known and supposedly reputable breeder), did all that too! ... minus the vet checks. Such sweet photos of the babies growing up, with flowers and nice backgrounds and all. And email updates of their progress. I was completely smitten with that baby I had reserved. We'd already NAMED him, because he was supposed to come home very soon! And then he hurts himself, and because I dared question her no-vet decision, she ends everything and sends back the money. :/

She had told me that she was holding onto one of the next babies for me in case this one didn't heal well. But as I said in that message above to her, I just felt a little funny getting attached to one baby, and then finding that instead of getting full care, I'm just being offered another one. This isn't a TV screen with a dead pixel; you can't just swap them out like commodities. Trying to make this about my "trust" feels like a coverup for an inability to deal with the mildest questioning or anything that could be perceived as criticism.

But THANK YOU, Jenphilly, for mentioning that your breeder did vet checks. That is such a relief to know that people DO do that. I was starting to wonder whether they just never do, and I sound like a huge jerkasaurus suggesting she change common business practice for me.

I don't think this woman is going to change her mind or snap out of this sensitive hissy-fit she got herself in over a client's concern for a baby's health. It seems odd to me that she would refuse to sell to me, considering I think I've made it clear that I'm a very caring owner and would do best by the bird. But it's more important to her that everyone thinks she's the best and agrees with her. I don't think she wants to have to explain to me why babies in her care don't see vets about broken legs... because there isn't a good reason. ....Except, maybe the fact that there's another "passion" at play here, for something green that doesn't have feathers...

This was a very disturbing, shocking, and hurtful situation. What a NIGHTMARE. I went and chose a distant breeder for reputability, and was so happy in my choice. It's been weeks and weeks of waiting, and now this happens. Just such an emotional roller coaster. I never could have guessed something like this would go down. I loved, LOVED that little baby and when I found out it was male, I was so happy I literally jumped up and down. How did this happen... at the end of all this, ultimately the feeling that comes out on top is just utter sadness. I don't think I've cried that hard in years. Confusion, anger, frustration, guilt, disappointment, and everything are all mixed in, but mostly I'm just completely broken-hearted.

But there's no use stewing about it. I had started wondering if I was choosing a bird the right way anyway. I sent a breeder in my state an email last night and I'm going to start seeing about taking little road trips around. I want to look at some Poicephalus babies and see how I feel about them, as well as some other conures... I really wanted a greencheek and I especially wanted a yellowsided. But I only wanted a male (lost my tiel to egg-laying, not ready for a female). Maybe it wouldn't matter so much with one of the larger birds, and with pois and other conures, I don't have to think about the color mutations. Anyway, I'm going to be openminded about species now, since there have been quite a few I think sound nice. Sigh. Back to the drawing board, but there's a certain amount of excitement in having open possibilities again. I do kind of want a slightly larger bird. ;)
 
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Oh and you may want to talk to the breeder at Something Cheeky, I spoke with her on the phone last week and she was so nice and loves her babies! She may have what you are looking for.
 
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I'm not really sure if I want to jump right into contacting a distant breeder and doing all this long-distance again. I really do feel kind of uneasy and wary of breeders I can't meet in person, since Pampered Peeps seemed SO awesome until suddenly she got mean. I think I might try to look more local at least until I've reassured myself that a greencheek is what I really want. But thank you for the suggestions. This is so hard. :C
 
Totally understandable:(. Wish you were close to me. We have two at our local reputable bird shop. We could bird shop together since my husband hates when I drag him there. Lol
 
Hi. I went to their site to see what the place was like. If I found the right place, it's in Arizona, it looks as if the lady's husband also works with her. Perhaps you can try contacting him? Maybe he is less of a psycho than his wife is? I'm just suggesting this, because I know if I were waiting for a bird, as you were, and planning his future, I don't think I could just let it go like this. It's not just about ANY bird, it's about YOUR bird. I would have to give it a try, or it would plague me forever.
Just my thoughts.
 
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How far is this place from you? In a Pickle Parrot Shop - Home

They're about 3 hours away. They're definitely one I'm keeping in mind.

I talked to a breeder in Cincinnati. Actually emailed her last night, haha. Not letting the unkind breeder make me waste any time moving on. She has some Meyer's parrots but won't be breeding them again for 6 months or so. Sigh!

I think I'm going to look around and try to rethink what I want to do. Maybe I can find someone else who can help me find a male YSGCC. Otherwise, I have lots of other options. It's just hard to choose. There are a lot of species I'm really interested in.

Hi. I went to their site to see what the place was like. If I found the right place, it's in Arizona, it looks as if the lady's husband also works with her. Perhaps you can try contacting him? Maybe he is less of a psycho than his wife is? I'm just suggesting this, because I know if I were waiting for a bird, as you were, and planning his future, I don't think I could just let it go like this. It's not just about ANY bird, it's about YOUR bird. I would have to give it a try, or it would plague me forever.
Just my thoughts.

Somehow I don't think that will work well. I wouldn't know how to contact him anyway or what to say, and I can't imagine him listening to me when his own wife has shunned me. I really DO wish we could just work something out, though. It is SO hard going back now and deleting all the photos of him that I pored over and adored. I already loved that little baby. All I ever wanted was for him to get well again, at any cost. It feels like such a horrific loss. So much pain...

Right now I'm just not sure how to go about reserving a bird again, because I'm not 100% sure what I want anymore. With the greencheeks, I REALLY wanted a YS, and I really only wanted a male after what happened to my last bird. It was pretty hard to find what I was looking for, especially since the YS is a sex-linked trait. I was so, so happy to have finally found what I really wanted, and from a breeder who seemed so trustworthy, too.

Ugh. This starting over is so hard. I am still reeling from this whole thing... I still am sort of in disbelief.
 
Have you checked out petfinder to see if there is a shelter in the area? Might be a great way to meet a bunch of different types of birds and never know, one might let you know they are the one you should be taking home :)

I am a shelter fan, we have rescues as well as birds from breeders and we are active volunteers at a shelter about 1-1/2 hour from us... not trying to push you in that direction, just a thought. Some really awesome birds waiting in shelters for home thru no fault of their own!!

I am guessing you are near Cincinnati, so our favorite breeder would be too far, almost 8 hours. But I am sure there are other people on here that would have suggestions for where they found wonderful birds in the Ohio area!!!

Good luck and I am very happy that this poor example of a person and breeder is not turning you off from getting a bird!!!
 
I agree with Jen. Not every shelter bird is a vicious plucker with severe behavior issues (though there are birds like that). There are also some very sweet, loving and even very young birds who end up in shelters. Plus, if you go over all the things your looking for in a bird, even if the shelter doesn't have a possible match right this minute, they will contact you when a bird comes in. We waited a very long time for an amazon to come up, but Kiwi was worth the wait :) It really never hurts to look into it, the worst that can happen is none of the birds seem like the right fit.
 
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Have you checked out petfinder to see if there is a shelter in the area? Might be a great way to meet a bunch of different types of birds and never know, one might let you know they are the one you should be taking home :)

Actually, yeah, I've been keeping an eye out on PetFinder and looking around for shelters, even before I'd picked a breeder. There really aren't many rescues nearby enough to just pop in for a visit, though. At least, I'm having a hard time with it. There's one up nearer to Cleveland that I believe I'm now following on Facebook.

Oh, you guys... I'm struggling so hard with this today. I thought I was doing better, but it all hit me at once again. There's this little voice that wants me to email the breeder back and try to get her to reconsider. But maybe that would just be making a fool of myself at this point. That little baby, though... I loved him, and after all this time, I finally had what I was looking for all lined up and ready. I wish I could get through to her. I really thought my concern would show nothing more than that I cared about the baby, but apparently I just screwed everything up. This is all just so tragic and I'm having a super difficult time with it emotionally. :(

I think there's a bird fair in Cleveland this weekend. Maybe I'll drive up there and just ... see what's there. Even when everything kind of sucks, seeing some animals always cheers me up. And maybe it'll help me decide what to do next...
 

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