Bird mart dangers

At the risk of being known as the most OCD 'avian viral disease freak' on here, if I'm not already :54: this IS no doubt something I feel strongly about so I'm gonna say it, and for good reason...
Through personal experience AND the experiences of people I have known, I KNOW for a fact how common these deadly and contagious viral diseases are. IMO, This issue really shouldn't be thought of as "oh that sort of thing doesn't happen to ME, or MY birds, that happens to OTHER people".

I was going to post this article (blue link) before (and it has been posted back in 2008), but now seems like as good of a time as any since there is once again some excitement about upcoming bird marts, bird fairs, bird show or whatever you want to call it.

Under this link (in the middle of the article) it shows the experiment done where they swabbed tables in the mart, and tested for viral particles of a few of the more common diseases, where not surprisingly there were positives. IF THERE WAS AN ACCURATE TEST FOR PDD, IT WOULD BE EVERYWHERE TOO, as that is probably the most common.

Many of the so called "breeders" who are vendors there selling their birds don't have a clue about this, that's why it's so rampant.

Bird Marts by Ernie Colaizzi

YES, a while ago I HAVE shopped at bird marts. THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN that your adult birds with healthy strong immune systems can't fight off these organisms if God forbid you brought something contaminated home, but you just can never tell.

Not that you really give a rats *** what I think, but what DO I think about people attending bird fairs? IT'S FINE TO GO! ITS LOTS OF FUN! IT'S INTERESTING! JUST AS LONG AS YOU KNOW THE RISKS AND ARE PERSONALLY OKAY WITH IT.

At least to CUT DOWN THE RISK, I've heard recommendations to take clothes off in the garage (hard if you live in an apartment, you don't want to strip outdoors) but at least remove shoes and sanitize outside, go immediately to shower, change clothes, sanitize the heck out of products you bought...

I'd LOVE to go to a bird mart again... I PERSONALLY just don't want to risk it that's just me. If you think I'm overboard, that's okay too just ignore me!

I agree with you. My boyfriend works at Petland for a summer job, and he has to keep his work shoes separate from our other shoes and take off his work clothes and wash them before coming near me or Avery. We talked to their management about bringing birds in, and they don't recommend it.

It's hard to be perfect... it's like being a germaphobe with a child. You want to keep then safe, but you can't be in a bubble. It all comes down to common sense and a bit of education on the topic methinks

The 'germs'? Not so worried about that. It's the scarier stuff that's out there.

Oh how scary! My birds are tough cookies just because of the stuff they've been exposed to in the past thanks to my ignorance of birds(when we first got the conures) but KNOWING that these diseases are practically crawling at these things makes me sad.

I was planning on attending a mart in August, even bringing one of the fids with me! (Depending on who did better with a harness.) but after reading this I don't want to bring my birds anywhere near that. I can clean my clothes, change outside of my apartment, etc, that's no big deal.

I guess it's sort of like bringing your healthy child in for a check up and being stuck in the waiting room with all the sick kids. (Only, not quite an unhealthy picture.)

Thanks for the info. If any of mine came down with PDD or PFBD because of something I did out of ignorance I'd never forgive myself.

I do get where your coming from, and while I've 'thought' about it a few times (going to a bird fair) I can never bring myself to go to one for this very reason. So many vendors, some may not be so 'reputable' and especially with all the online shopping nowadays, it just doesn't seem worth it. The vet is the place I'm most paranoid about and avoid taking Kiwi unless truly necessary. Even then, I coordinate with my husband so he can wait in the car with Kiwi until we are called to minimize exposure, and I bring our own towels (one for handling, one to cover the examination table) and scale. I don't care if the vet gets offended either. Bringing my healthy bird (regarding serious diseases) around potentially sick and contagious birds scares me to death, and you are most likely to encounter a sick bird at a vets office. If it was offered, I'd pay extra for home calls.

What I do go to is *reputable* bird stores. I know there is always a risk, but if a place has a good reputation, and is clean+sanitary, I may go in a few times a year. However, if I don't like the looks of a place, I won't go back and will not purchase things there. It's happened before, and I won't ever be back based on the looks and vibes of the place. didn't seem clean, birds didn't seem well cared for and I'm thankful Kiwi did not come with me that time or he might've gotten a 'precautionary' vet visit. I also don't bring Kiwi to places that sell birds. In AZ, the bird store we went to didn't sell live birds (well sometimes they had budgies and parrolettes the bred, and the owners were extremely diligent bird people), just supplies. I (wrongly) assumed this was probably the 'norm' these days with more and more home breeders and people being aware of shelters. Anyways, I went to a bird store in Portland not too long ago and just merrily brought Kiwi along with me assuming it would be like the old bird store I went to. They must've had 20 birds there I was a bit freaked out, but they do have a good reputation and were very clean/birds all looked well cared for/healthy. I will go back there for sure, just not with Kiwi in tow. My fault for not checking before I went in, but I was keeping my extra-paroinoid eyes on him in the days following the visit for signs of illness. I guess the best we can do is *try* to protect them and *try* to keep them away from situations that breed disease.

O, and I do sterilize all new toys and branches before he gets them. If they can't be boiled or at least be rinsed with vinegar and 'vigorously' washed in hot water, I don't buy them. Thankfully, Kiwi doesn't tend to like the kinds of toys that can't be anyways.

Sterling1113 said:

Thanks for the info. If any of mine came down with PDD or PFBD because of something I did out of ignorance I'd never forgive myself.

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Unfortunately sometimes it's not something we "do". Believe it or not I was very disease conscious already at the time I got my first Pionus who died.

I trusted them, but I should have asked where they get their birds. I guess I wasn't 'in a bubble' enough?! Really though, most of us just use common sense and "live".
Anyway, I found out after the fact my (beautiful looking) bird who died from PDD came from a 'broker' who got them from who knows who's backyard!

RavensGryf said:

Sterling1113 said:

Thanks for the info. If any of mine came down with PDD or PFBD because of something I did out of ignorance I'd never forgive myself.

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Unfortunately sometimes it's not something we "do". Believe it or not I was very disease conscious already at the time I got my first Pionus who died.

I trusted them, but I should have asked where they get their birds. I guess I wasn't 'in a bubble' enough?! Really though, most of us just use common sense and "live".
Anyway, I found out after the fact my (beautiful looking) bird who died from PDD came from a 'broker' who got them from who knows who's backyard!

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Oh no, that's awful.
Live and learn, right? Even if we do 'live in a bubble' there's nothing that can promise a 100% healthy life, for any living thing. The important part is we're doing what we can with what he have, be it knowledge, medicine, etc.
It's just rough learning that the hard way sometimes.

I have been to a couple of bird marts, but I was paranoid the whole time about the bird diseases. I didn't buy anything, I just wanted to see the birds. But honestly...they were all so sad and stressed out, it depressed me. The vendors (backyard breeders) didn't even seem to care that the birds were scared, or crammed in a little cage. It was just a business to them. OH, and seeing a bunch of screaming little kids running around, poking at the birds...

I will never go to one again. Now that I am a "bird person," it hurts me to see birds treated like a commodity, instead of the sensitive, intelligent beings they are.

Okay, Julie. Now you done did it! I read that article and now there's no way I can go to a bird fare! Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhh! The thought of going to one was so cool, too! (Granted, who knows if I'd EVER have gotten around to going, but it was a nice abstract dream!) Ah, well. Smh.

Seriously, though. Thank you for that info. You are, without a doubt, my absolute favorite OCD 'avian viral disease freak' EVER!

Well now you make me feel bad for depriving you of such a wonderful, fascinating, and delightful experience Stephen! Darn!

I would just say "go" :54:, as obviously you're not going to ALWAYS bring home viruses, and truth is, many NEVER bring home viruses. BUT, since there is NO GUARANTEE about it... I can see Bixby with little worried eyebrows shaking his head no! LOL! Kidding, it's your judgement call my friend

Anansi said:

Okay, Julie. Now you done did it! I read that article and now there's no way I can go to a bird fare!

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You can still go, just put all your clothes in a trash bag and jump in the shower when you get home !!

BTW: What fair you goin to neighbor ?

Joe

Talking about paranoia... here's one for you. I stumbled across this when reading for days on end about ABV, after I took in an unwanted parrot that tested positive for it and died 11 days later.

"ABV appears to be endemic in North
American waterfowl, in comparison to what appears to be an emerging disease in parrots. It is not known whether ABV can spread between waterfowl and parrots. The discovery of ABV infection in North American waterfowl suggests that European waterfowl should be evaluated for the presence of ABV, and also as a possible reservoir species for Borna disease virus (BDV)"

Could it be possible that our birds (especially those who keep them outside in the summer) have gotten it from our own wildlife? We have geese all over in MI and IL, due to the great lakes. They really are not sure, as there are so many strains of it... and only a few seem to cause problems.

And yes, I have become extra paranoid ever since, but.... you do have to try to take a step back, because viruses and bacteria are everywhere, and they do evolve. I had someone tell me to enjoy the days you do have with your loved ones and animals, as you'll he happier over all, then spending every day worrying about where the next virus is going to enter the house from. I'm not saying to be reckless, of course! I have noticed that the day Kimi came into my life, and for the next few months, I was a wreck, and scared, and stressed... which ended up making me sick, too. So gotta keep that in mind, too! Stress can cause more problems than anything! A living creature's immune system does do a really good job at eradicating issues, as long as its not suppressed, like from stress.

Sorry for blabbing, but I think it's important to realize that its good to take precautions, but not really worth the stress to go overboard.

95talongirl said:

Talking about paranoia... here's one for you. I stumbled across this when reading for days on end about ABV, after I took in an unwanted parrot that tested positive for it and died 11 days later.

"ABV appears to be endemic in North
American waterfowl, in comparison to what appears to be an emerging disease in parrots. It is not known whether ABV can spread between waterfowl and parrots. The discovery of ABV infection in North American waterfowl suggests that European waterfowl should be evaluated for the presence of ABV, and also as a possible reservoir species for Borna disease virus (BDV)"

Could it be possible that our birds (especially those who keep them outside in the summer) have gotten it from our own wildlife? We have geese all over in MI and IL, due to the great lakes. They really are not sure, as there are so many strains of it... and only a few seem to cause problems.

And yes, I have become extra paranoid ever since, but.... you do have to try to take a step back, because viruses and bacteria are everywhere, and they do evolve. I had someone tell me to enjoy the days you do have with your loved ones and animals, as you'll he happier over all, then spending every day worrying about where the next virus is going to enter the house from. I'm not saying to be reckless, of course! I have noticed that the day Kimi came into my life, and for the next few months, I was a wreck, and scared, and stressed... which ended up making me sick, too. So gotta keep that in mind, too! Stress can cause more problems than anything! A living creature's immune system does do a really good job at eradicating issues, as long as its not suppressed, like from stress.

Sorry for blabbing, but I think it's important to realize that its good to take precautions, but not really worth the stress to go overboard.

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Oh no! I LOVE ducks!! I'll just be careful not to step on duck poo. :52:
Whenever I see wild ducks at a pond, I go to see them... The other day I was able to get within 4' or so of a goose family (mom, dad, and 1 older child with a fuzzy butt)! It's cute to those of us who live in the suburbs and don't usually get to see wildlife or farm animals. Once I was at a man made pond at the right time of year apparently, and I counted over 10 different duck species (couldn't believe my eyes), including ones that looked really exotic like a Mandarin!

Thanks for the reminder of keeping paranoia in check... Especially for those like us who have unfortunately gone through "what can happen" first hand. Enjoy instead of always wondering where and when the next virus will enter. That feeling can make you crazy so you can't even enjoy. Now that I'm taking Robin and Raven to the vet, it's a worry lots of people have, but I bet it's still very rare to pick up something deadly from the vet office.

RavensGryf said:

Well now you make me feel bad for depriving you of such a wonderful, fascinating, and delightful experience Stephen! Darn!

I would just say "go" :54:, as obviously you're not going to ALWAYS bring home viruses, and truth is, many NEVER bring home viruses. BUT, since there is NO GUARANTEE about it... I can see Bixby with little worried eyebrows shaking his head no! LOL! Kidding, it's your judgement call my friend

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Lol! Julie, you are such a nut! Well, either that or Bixby's spokeswoman.

GW.Joe said:

You can still go, just put all your clothes in a trash bag and jump in the shower when you get home !!

BTW: What fair you goin to neighbor ?

Joe

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Nah, Joe. I know myself waaaaay too well to try that. I'd just end up all stressed and paranoid... exactly what 95talongirl was trying to warn against. Lol! Better to just err on the side of caution, I believe.

Oh, and I never had any concrete plans to go to one. It was just more of an abstract fancy, you know?