Why are some people against hybrids?

[JerseyWendy]

Here is a portion of a link I found:


"What are Hybrid Macaws?

• Hybridization
  Hybrid Macaws are typical Macaws, but they are not pure species Macaws. A hybrid Macaw parrot is basically the result of crossing two different Macaw species. Those produced by two different species within the same genus are sometimes known as 'interspecific hybrids' or 'crosses'. Hybrids between different sub-species, within a species, are known as intra-specific hybrids."

THIS is the entire link: Hybrid Macaws, About Hybrid Macaw Parrots, Types of Hybrid Macaws

The mere thought of breeding 2 totally unrelated birds gives me the hee-bee-jee-bees.

 

[lene1949]

wholeheartedly against it unless it happens naturally in the wild. This reminds me of "designer" dog breeds, mankind has screwed up enough things on this planet already. Sorry, this is a sore subject for me and I feel pretty strongly about it.

That's merely cross breeding, but the fact that they sell them as designer dogs for a price to match is really sad...

How did it happen? How did we get so many different breeds of dogs? I believe the species is true, no hybridization (is that really a word?)

 

[mcw009]

Some of you seem to be mixing up "Breeds" with "Species." They are NOT the same thing. Comparing crossing 2 different macaws is NOT the same as crossing 2 different dogs; it's a bad analogy.
All dogs are the same species. They're only different breeds. In human terms, this would be like an Italian person marrying a Japanese person.
Parrots, however, are different species. Mating a Scarlet Macaw with a Blue and Gold Macaw would be more like that Italian person marrying a chimpanzee.
And mating a macaw to a cockatoo would be kind of like the Italian marrying a spider monkey.

It's essential to understand these differences in order to speak intelligently about hybrids.

(Nothing against Italians; just the first nationality to pop in my head!)

 

[lene1949]

Here is a portion of a link I found:


"What are Hybrid Macaws?

• Hybridization
  Hybrid Macaws are typical Macaws, but they are not pure species Macaws. A hybrid Macaw parrot is basically the result of crossing two different Macaw species. Those produced by two different species within the same genus are sometimes known as 'interspecific hybrids' or 'crosses'. Hybrids between different sub-species, within a species, are known as intra-specific hybrids."

THIS is the entire link: Hybrid Macaws, About Hybrid Macaw Parrots, Types of Hybrid Macaws

The mere thought of breeding 2 totally unrelated birds gives me the hee-bee-jee-bees.

And... after this... I looked into human subspecies, and they say there aren't any... But... we all look different, smell different.. etc... so surely we would be a sub species.. We have many cross breeds, but so far no hybrids? I think... lolol...

 

[lene1949]

Some of you seem to be mixing up "Breeds" with "Species." They are NOT the same thing. Comparing crossing 2 different macaws is NOT the same as crossing 2 different dogs; it's a bad analogy.
All dogs are the same species. They're only different breeds. In human terms, this would be like an Italian person marrying a Japanese person.
Parrots, however, are different species. Mating a Scarlet Macaw with a Blue and Gold Macaw would be more like that Italian person marrying a chimpanzee.
And mating a macaw to a cockatoo would be kind of like the Italian marrying a spider monkey.

It's essential to understand these differences in order to speak intelligently about hybrids.

(Nothing against Italians; just the first nationality to pop in my head!)

So a human mating with a chimpanzee would make the offspring a hybrid? Could there ever be an offspring? It's a frightening thought...

 

[PortaPerch]

Hybridizing is just a gross jump of selective breeding, which happens all the time. What about breeding for red greys?

 

[JerseyWendy]

And... after this... I looked into human subspecies, and they say there aren't any... But... we all look different, smell different.. etc... so surely we would be a sub species.. We have many cross breeds, but so far no hybrids? I think... lolol...

Well one of my dogs is most definitely a human subspecies. His facial expressions are simply....human. :11: ( <-- joke)

 

[Echo]

So a human mating with a chimpanzee would make the offspring a hybrid? Could there ever be an offspring? It's a frightening thought...

That is silly LOL....

Well, humans and chimps are from the same family (Hominidae). However, they are a different species.
Boy! Hybrid or Crossbreed, an offspring would be some hairy dude! LOL.....Wait! I think I might have seen a few on the beach this summer!! Ahahah

 

[RescueMe]

I think the concern for so called "hybrid" birds really do pollute the gene pool. Dogs are not genetically pure and are not the same as a wolf in the wild. Genetically speaking a blue and gold in captivity is the "same" as a wild blue and gold macaw. This is important to preserve as the future for many of these birds is not certain. The Spix macaw is now extinct in the wild, the only breeding populations are in captivity which means that they need to be kept as genetically diverse to prevent inbreeding and obviously crossbreeding would be unethical. The bird trade is so determined to focus on looks and vanity that we rarely look to the future of others.

 

[Mayden]

Some of you seem to be mixing up "Breeds" with "Species." They are NOT the same thing. Comparing crossing 2 different macaws is NOT the same as crossing 2 different dogs; it's a bad analogy.
All dogs are the same species. They're only different breeds. In human terms, this would be like an Italian person marrying a Japanese person.
Parrots, however, are different species. Mating a Scarlet Macaw with a Blue and Gold Macaw would be more like that Italian person marrying a chimpanzee.
And mating a macaw to a cockatoo would be kind of like the Italian marrying a spider monkey.

It's essential to understand these differences in order to speak intelligently about hybrids.

(Nothing against Italians; just the first nationality to pop in my head!)

Unfortunately you're the closest to the best explanation atm, but you're wrong.

Mating a b&g macaw with a scarlet is not like a human+chimpanzee because all macaws can mate with all different macaws (artificial insemination or not) and produce fertile offspring. Just as a cockatiel can mate with a galah (both cockatoos). unlike a human and chimpanzee who don't have enough 'matching dna' to produce offspring.

Hybrid and cross breeds are exactly the same thing, as well as 'interbreeding'.

You cannot cross a bird such as a sun conure and a senegal, as they are different species. + so do not have enough matching dna, alleles and chromosomes to produce offspring (especially fertile).

I don't mind birds being cross bred, if it's a case of, they're all in an aviary together and just happen to pair up. So 'natural' conjuring hybrids - but I don't like the idea of them being bred to be hybrids and especially not with the 'rare' species, such as the panama amazons, hyacinth macaws, black tailed too's etc. as henpecked mentioned before because we will lose these as 'pure' species and will end up with mushed up hybrids.

I think cross breeding can be a good thing with health as it can mean less genetic problems that can happen with inbreeding for 'pure' birds. But that's just 'bad' breeding problems and not really something that should be worried about in natural conditions...

Zzzzz, so much biology, making my head hurt. Basically; macaw x macaw, is not a 'bad' thing and will produce fertile offspring. conure x poi is impossible and if genetically meddled with, would produce sterile offspring.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

i am not totally comfortable with it. i guess i even think of (maybe bad example) all the bred variations in budgies. the variations themselves i don't suppose are what have caused the multitude of health problems in those lovely birds, but the "irresponsible" breeding has. And that's not even a 'hybrid' but just fancy selective breeding.
and besides, the natural parrots are awesome as they are. i feel a tiny pang of guilt about having them in captivity as it is, but i feel worse about "genetically devaluing" them. ha, i guess i'm getting too sensitive about it but, it's just how i feel. i don't think it's EVIL or anything to create hybrids and i have purchased budgies in spite of poor breeding.

 

[Pookamama]

Are there cockatiel/galah crosses? That sounds interesting, off to google that one.
I am finding it interesting comparing this to human races. Are there any non-human animals that have the equivalent of 'races'?

 

[Pookamama]

Oh, very yes. Galatiels exist! Weird!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/CheetaZeus/hybrid108.jpg

 

[WharfRat]

bottom line.........people that do it just to make an "extra" buck or "let's see what happens". I don't care if it's dogs, birds or whatever. As stated by me before, unless it happens by nature in the wild, leave it the H*** alone. As I said, I feel pretty strongly about it. Mankind has screwed up enough things on this planet as it is. All those so-called "designer" dogs set me off on this years ago.

just my opinion

 

[ConureCrazy]

I once had seen a hahns that breeded with a jenday. I am totally against that. :/

Is that even possible?

Not my pic. I have seen it in person, but the bird was already sold and I have no pictures. I have never seen galahtiels, but now that I do I would have to say I'm against that too.

 

[tab_xo]

i agree with wharfRat! i think we shouldnt be 'designing' our birds to make them prettier and such. I think its fine if the birds in captivity just happen to bond, but when people keep breeding 2nd and 3rd gen hybrids its going a bit far!
Hybrid Macaws, About Hybrid Macaw Parrots, Types of Hybrid Macaws
thought that site was good, it shows all the hybrid macaws!

 

[mcw009]

Some of you seem to be mixing up "Breeds" with "Species." They are NOT the same thing. Comparing crossing 2 different macaws is NOT the same as crossing 2 different dogs; it's a bad analogy.
All dogs are the same species. They're only different breeds. In human terms, this would be like an Italian person marrying a Japanese person.
Parrots, however, are different species. Mating a Scarlet Macaw with a Blue and Gold Macaw would be more like that Italian person marrying a chimpanzee.
And mating a macaw to a cockatoo would be kind of like the Italian marrying a spider monkey.

It's essential to understand these differences in order to speak intelligently about hybrids.

(Nothing against Italians; just the first nationality to pop in my head!)

Unfortunately you're the closest to the best explanation atm, but you're wrong.

Mating a b&g macaw with a scarlet is not like a human+chimpanzee because all macaws can mate with all different macaws (artificial insemination or not) and produce fertile offspring. Just as a cockatiel can mate with a galah (both cockatoos). unlike a human and chimpanzee who don't have enough 'matching dna' to produce offspring.

Hybrid and cross breeds are exactly the same thing, as well as 'interbreeding'.

You cannot cross a bird such as a sun conure and a senegal, as they are different species. + so do not have enough matching dna, alleles and chromosomes to produce offspring (especially fertile).

I don't mind birds being cross bred, if it's a case of, they're all in an aviary together and just happen to pair up. So 'natural' conjuring hybrids - but I don't like the idea of them being bred to be hybrids and especially not with the 'rare' species, such as the panama amazons, hyacinth macaws, black tailed too's etc. as henpecked mentioned before because we will lose these as 'pure' species and will end up with mushed up hybrids.

I think cross breeding can be a good thing with health as it can mean less genetic problems that can happen with inbreeding for 'pure' birds. But that's just 'bad' breeding problems and not really something that should be worried about in natural conditions...

Zzzzz, so much biology, making my head hurt. Basically; macaw x macaw, is not a 'bad' thing and will produce fertile offspring. conure x poi is impossible and if genetically meddled with, would produce sterile offspring.

A more accurate analogy of Scarlet macaw v. B+G macaw would be Homo sapiens (our species) mating with Homo erectus/australopithecus/habilis... still different species and thus still very different from dog breeds (ALL dogs are Canis familiaris, be they pugs or great danes). I decided not to say that because 1. none of those are extant species and 2. it's not as easily accessible to laymen, so to speak.
Anyway, the point was simply to help people understand that breeds are not the same as species, so that they can develop a more informed opinion.

Perhaps another important point is that one of the hallmarks of a "Species" is reproductive isolation. In nature, these pairings basically never occur- they're almost only seen after human interference. Just because, genetically, they could produce offspring doesn't mean they would- they are distinct, different species.

And fun fact: false killer whales and bottlenose dolphins belong to different genera, but they can produce fertile hybrids. This actually IS analogous to a human mating with a chimp.

 

[DebsFlock]

The original definition of species was that distinct species could not interbreed and produce viable offspring. So horses and donkeys can make mules, but mules are sterile. This is has become significantly watered down, especially in the bird taxonomy.

The breeding of mules does not bother me because there are plenty of horses and plenty of donkeys and neither gene pool is in any kind of danger, plus mules are useful.

OTOH, some species of macaw are threatened and when individuals are taken out of that gene pool and mated (for life) with another macaw species, that's not IMO ethical. Even if the resulting offspring are fertile, it's still diluting a gene pool that can't afford to be diluted.

If the hybridization is between two species that are well-established in the wild and it is done strictly in captivity, and people find the offspring desirable as pets I see no real problem with it. But I'm not sure that's typically the case.

 

[WharfRat]

Ok people, all the "scientific" stuff aside. How do you feel about purposely crossbreeding species/breeds?? I think that's what the thread was intended (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Mare Miller]

Ok, my son happens to be home right now, moving into his third year at UCDavis, majoring in genetics. I just learned from him why different genus breeding produces sterility.

They have a different number of chromosomes from each other and that produces an off-spring that has an odd, rather than even, number of chromosomes. An even number is needed to produce an egg or a sperm. Geez, the kids these days!