We really need to talk about parrot aggression and training methods.

[Blancaej]

The honeymoon is over for me, I don't think it will be any better for ya! LOL!

 

[Mayden]

I'm agreeing with both sides here, both have raised some really good points.

A lot of the issue is basically people not understanding how birds work. Why does a parrot do XYZ? How can I go about rectifying their RESPONSE to a stimulus? (aka. bite to my presence!) its all so sad...

 

[Birdman666]

To me, the hard age for macaws isn't the so called terrible twos...

It's the 7 to 12 age, when they are hormonal for the first few seasons, short tempered, and going out of their mind, regurging and masterbating and such... and don't understand why.

THAT TO ME IS THE HARDEST AGE...

Thank god mine are both past that stuff!

 

[JerseyWendy]

To me, the hard age for macaws isn't the so called terrible twos...

It's the 7 to 12 age, when they are hormonal for the first few seasons, short tempered, and going out of their mind, regurging and masterbating and such... and don't understand why.

THAT TO ME IS THE HARDEST AGE...

Thank god mine are both past that stuff!

I admit, I am NOT looking forward to that experience - at all!!!! I may lose all the appendages I grew when that happens here. :11:

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[Birdman666]

I admit, I am NOT looking forward to that experience - at all!!!! I may lose all the appendages I grew when that happens here. :11:

One of the places I volunteered with had approximately 40 large macaws, with approximately 25 of them in the 7 to 12 range...

It's pretty simple math.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I admit, I am NOT looking forward to that experience - at all!!!! I may lose all the appendages I grew when that happens here. :11:

One of the places I volunteered with had approximately 40 large macaws, with approximately 25 of them in the 7 to 12 range...

It's pretty simple math.

What should I be calculating? How many appendages you lost??? JUST KIDDING!!!!!

 

[Blancaej]

Coqui is 10 years old. She is the bird I just brought home 2 weeks ago. I wonder if she is going through that phase right now. If so, I think I will have a very sweet girl in a year or two!

 

[Birdman666]

I wish I could teach them the ol' sock on the doorknob trick! lool

Ahhh...yes.... birdie masterbation.

Another lovely topic in and of itself.

My worst experience EVER on this one, happened to be with a fully cognitive and evil to the core, dusky conure. (We were the 5th home for this bird because he had Eviled his way out of the other four.)

He started off by buying me dinner... but rather than actually feeding me, or just regurging into my hand like all the others do... he decides to stick it in the most convenient hole. (He was on my shoulder at the time.)

Oh look, he just filled my ear hole, with bird puke! Isn't that charming? He loves me... Before I got over the shock of that one, he Latched onto the side of my ears with both feet and his beak, and "mounted up" attempting to fill my ear hole with something else...

Needless to say, he was quite upset when I didn't let him finish! Apparently, after buying me dinner, he felt he had certain rights to my body... which I absolutely did not agree with. And I promptly put his little butt on the floor.
Made him sit there begging to be picked up too, until I finished cleaning out my ear...

The moral of this story is that steam cleaning toys doesn't seem nearly as bad anymore. In fact, I really don't mind it at all!

I allow my big macs to regurg, but trained them to keep it all for themselves. Don't bring it up if you don't intend to finish it.

 

[Birdman666]

I admit, I am NOT looking forward to that experience - at all!!!! I may lose all the appendages I grew when that happens here. :11:

One of the places I volunteered with had approximately 40 large macaws, with approximately 25 of them in the 7 to 12 range...

It's pretty simple math.

What should I be calculating? How many appendages you lost??? JUST KIDDING!!!!!

Well, that seemed to be the age macaws got dumped... for "problem behaviors." (With toos it was age 5. A poorly trained too will become a hellion scream and pluck around Age 5. And it absolutely relates back to how they were handled and trained - or not trained to self entertain, more accurately.)

It isn't that bad, if they are well trained going into it, they just get a bit moody/grumpy. And masterbate... a lot... and are not exactly shy about when, and in front of whom.

 

[Birdman666]

B
In the wild. Cages and relying on people for food is not wild...

One thing you will do well to remember is that Parrots are not so domesticated as to have lost all their wild instincts.

When analyzing a "problem" bird behavior, always factor in their wild instincts, breeding season behaviors, and the like. As you handle more and more of these, you will realize that their wild instincts and behaviors absolutely still apply in captivity.

Never more so than with Amazons, and Female Eckies...

 

[Birdman666]

This has actually happened to me. Not with a big mac, but THE meanest, biggest YN Amazon I have EVER seen.

This bird meant business. He also meant harm. I am not exaggerating in the least, I swear! He would demolish any perch I'd try to get him to step up to. He even chewed through a towel.

Then you know exactly what I was talking about... Napes can take a finger off (possible), and they can also inflict severe de-gloving injuries (probable), or inflict a wound that needed stitches to close (most likely).


I named him RAMBO. :54:......and gave him to my GF with whom he actually developed a VERY good relationship. Go figure that one!!!

Two words: Amazon Crush. It's an instant like, or an instant dislike, and no one knows why. But if it's dislike, watch your fingers and toes!

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[Birdman666]

I do know that they like to sleep in tree hollows, so I made a man cave for Stevie and he only goes in there to sleep every night. It's super freaking cute.

Have you ever seen those cuddle tubes? He might like those.


As you start doing rescue work, you will see a lot of problem behaviors that relate back to natural pair bond reaction (i.e. things like mate aggression, where the "bird mate" is human.) Or trying to drive the significant other out of the nest.... that's a typical evil macaw trick! Or the typical over bonding, one person behaviors.

And simple things such as natural territorial and nesting behaviors. My bird "suddenly hates me." (You'll hear a lot of that!) No, it's the start of mating season and he is establishing his territory. Take him out of his territory and he WON'T attack you... STICK HANDLE HIM AROUND THE CAGE.

These all relate back to their wild instincts, and those are typical "problem behavior" scenarios, usually made worse by lack of training or overbonding.

 

[Birdman666]

In a cage they don't have that option so biting to the point of inflicting injury will happen much more than it would in the wild.

Actually I am going to throw you a curve ball.

A domestically hand raised bird WILL ABSOLUTELY BITE HARDER and is SIGNIFICANTLY MORE LIKELY to inflict serious injury than a wild caught bird, or a wild bird would... Can you guess why?!

 

[Birdman666]

The answer of course is that neither the wild bird, nor the wild caught bird, have lost their fear of humans. Both will bite. Neither will want to be handled.
But they are not biting to inflict injury. They are posturing for an avenue to escape.

A hand raised parrot, when throwing a temper tantrum, can and will use more bite pressure, and at times, something approaching full bite pressure precisely because IT IS NOT AFRAID OF YOU AND DOES NOT THINK YOU WILL RESPOND BY HURTING IT!!! So, you get more bite pressure, rather than less.

Which goes back to bite pressure training is job number 1, especially with the tantrum throwers!

 

[Birdman666]

I do kinda miss teaching this stuff... But I need to get back to work.

 

[strudel]

A lot of the issue is basically people not understanding how birds work. Why does a parrot do XYZ?

I think the question is "why does THIS parrot do XYZ?" I think you need to consider the individual characteristics and personality of the particular animal. This was mentioned by a bloke we have on TV (Don Burke) in relation to dog training. Burke's Backyard > Fact Sheets > Know your Dog's Mind I agree with considering the "person" you are dealing with. For example, at training we were taught never to growl at a dog when doing a recall because they'd get all upset and not come. My dog would simply ignore any nice "come" commands. Until I went all growly voice and growled, "Come here", she'd just carry on (it was just like that little girl in Kindergarten Cop eating all the other kids' lunches). She was "peculiar" in this regard based on the "here's how you have to do training" mindset. I think the problem is when you misunderstand either the technique, or the behaviour being presented. My dog was being a bossy little madam. I'd had her since a puppy and I knew her, I knew when she was about to run off, or get all bossy with another dog. Another dog might be ignoring a recall command because it is afraid. Assuming THAT dog is being a bossy little madam and getting all "sergeant major" on it would be a huge mistake.

This also goes back to me saying that it is the trainer who needs to learn. When a trainer has a lot of experience and that experience means that they are correctly interpreting the animal's behaviour, techniques other than positive reinforcement can be used, but when you don't know what you are doing and don't have a lot of experience, realize that you are possibly/likely getting it wrong both in interpreting the behaviour to be corrected and in applying whatever it is you think you are doing. I agree with birdman that corrections will be required when there are dangerous problem behaviours involved and that it is the REWARD that is important. The problem for those not as experienced as he is is that they might have picked up bad advice, misunderstood it, applying it to an animal for whom it will be counter-productive, not be applying it correctly and effectively, and ending up making everything worse.

I don't think there are any absolute, one-size-fits-all instructions to be followed. Anyone inexperienced should ONLY use positive reinforcement because it means they won't be causing problems, but when you are talking about behavioural issues in animals with a "bad background", they may need interventions over and above what your average owner should be applying, but those interventions would need to only come from somebody with a lot of knowledge and experience or under the guidance of a professional/experienced trainer.

 

[JerseyWendy]

A domestically hand raised bird WILL ABSOLUTELY BITE HARDER and is SIGNIFICANTLY MORE LIKELY to inflict serious injury than a wild caught bird, or a wild bird would... Can you guess why?!

Because a domestically raised bird has lost all fear of humans, while WC parrots are more likely to be afraid of us.

 

[LiL_Caity413]