Smoking with birds in a car ?????

[antoinette]

I took Mishka to the vet early this morning in the pouring rain, 70km there and back, happy to say he behaved in the car.

My son Sean met me at the vet, wanted to experience Mishka having his wings clipped and nails trimmed, oh how sweet of him.

We arrived there at the same time, sat in my car still had 20 minutes to wait till they opened.

A couple pulled up next to us, a conure sitting the the ladies shoulder and an African Grey on the guys shoulder.

We greeted them with a wave and smile.

WAS I EVER SO SORRY.............................

Not a minute later they both began smoking in the car, WITH THE BIRDS ON THEIR SHOULDERS.........

Not one window was opened due to the rain.

I was livid and wanted to tell them tell them off.
Just then Dr Russell pulled up next to them, got out the car and approached them. A few words were exchanged, an argument heat up.

The couple drove off very upset.

When seeing to Mishka Dr Russell told us he refuses to see to people who put their birds lives at risk. Apparently he had spoken to them previously, again they bluntly ignored his advice.

Some people should not have birds, or any pets endangering their lives on a daily basis. OMG imagine how many cigarettes those poor birds "smoke"per day.

 

[Jtbirds]

It is soo sad that people just can't wait to smoke until they aren't arou d there birds. My dad is a smoker and he will go outside even it is pouring rain or blowing a blizzard just so he doesn't harm our animals. I would have said something to them honestly I have before. The owner of a bird club was talking to me one with his m2 on his shoulder(I never trust cockatoos on my shoulder they are just to unpredictable), then he lights up a cig with the bird on him. He says o it's ok we are outside... I was so mad we exchanged some words and it ended up he walked away very mad..

 

[sodakat]

Well, IMO, clipping your bird's wings to prevent flight is putting them at risk. Their anatomy requires flight to achieve maximum air passing into their air sacs to produce oxygen for their lungs.

I don't smoke and am always surprised by the number of parrot owners who smoke, but I'm equally surprised at the number of parrot owners who refuse to let their birds fly.

Unfortunately there are veterinarians who convince owners that birds should not fly.

 

[antoinette]

Well, IMO, clipping your bird's wings to prevent flight is putting them at risk. Their anatomy requires flight to achieve maximum air passing into their air sacs to produce oxygen for their lungs.

I don't smoke and am always surprised by the number of parrot owners who smoke, but I'm equally surprised at the number of parrot owners who refuse to let their birds fly.

Unfortunately there are veterinarians who convince owners that birds should not fly.

[FONT=&quot]IMO IT IS the guardians choice to clip or not to clip.

I did a lot of research before hand, getting many different opinions from different vets.


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Clipping a bird's wings is done mainly for their own safety. Birds can fly into ceiling fans, windows, doors, and any number of places in the home where they can injure themselves. A clipped bird is free to be out his cage, since he won’t be able to fly around and cause damage to household items. [/FONT]

Mishka is a healthy happy and content bird, I KNOW I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jtbirds]

Well soda I agree with you on most things but this is one thing I don't... I keep all of my birds clipped for many of the same reasons ant listed and as well I've heard of to many flying right out of doors. Sadly my house isn't set up with two doors with an air space in between to accommodate a free flight house like I'd love to. I exercise my birds daily through flapping they have climbing ropes, swings, outside and inside there cages. All of my playgyms are multiple levels so they can move around and exercise. This keeps mine all in a very healthy state I believe.

I'd say most vets suggest to clip as most people are not remotely enough in Another word responsible enough to take care of there birds and with this being pointed out even manage a free flighted bird. Guaranteeing some vets I have no idea were they got a lisence from because of how erm well dumb they can be, but I'd say most knowledgable vets suggest clipping due to the lack of knowledge on the owners part. That's just my two cents worth on the vets not educating people though so it probably doesn't mean much.

 

[Peeker]

That would bother me so much. I'm glad your vet said something to them! My birds came from a home that smoked and their feathers reeked of cigarette smoke when I got them. I didn't say anything to them because I was taking the birds out of there and the family had a lot going on at the time. It wouldn't wash off and they had that smell for awhile until their feathers molted out.

I'm sure they were around the smoke a lot. Tina used to "do" a smokers cough. *sigh

 

[Featheredsamurai]

That's so terrible that they were smoking around the birds. I have never smoked and don't plan to ever do such a unhealthy thing. It slowly kills you, and would do so even faster with for a parrot.

I agree it is up to us to choose whether to clip or not.

I keep Rosie fully flighted, and she is now a fairly skilled flier. She flies a few times a day, but she isn't a big flier. I still am always there to supervise her when she is out.

I honestly see no reason to clip Kenji, he has no skill in flying, although I would like to one day change that so he at least flutters to the ground. When unclipped they can get their primaries stuck in toys or the bars and break a wing. But when clipped he may fall even faster and possibly break his keel. I also want to avoid changing things even more, he has never plucked and I don't want to give him a reason to.

 

[Birdlover11]

So irresponsible . He didn't even take the advice from a VET . Do they even know that second by second while smoking in a car with birds their lives are decreasing by the minuite ? I can feel Dr.Russels annoyance , they didn't even try it, and they started a ARGUMENT . The owners probably said " I KNOW what's best for my parrot" . Yeah right .

 

[ConureCrazy]

OMG... I would have told them off as well!! :angry:

My parents smoke too, but they smoke outside no matter the weather and wash their hands even after just touching a cigarette... They're very careful about everything.

 

[weco]

My vet refuses to treat smoker's birds also & if the bird gets to the exam room before smoke stink is discovered, whatever the charge for the scheduled service is is charged to the owner.....there is a notice prominently posted at the receptionist's desk about them not treating smoker's birds & that full charges would be billed accordingly.....it's also on the form you sign OK'ing treatment/service, so people can't complain.....

 

[Jtbirds]

So they won't even treat someone who smokes bird even if they don't do it around them. I mean my dad and the owner of the rescue smoke, but they would never smoke around the birds and they always wash hands and face before touching again. To clarify they do it outside never in a different room or some other half.... Excuse.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

Not treating a bird because it's owner smokes is cruel. If a owner is willing to bring their bird in that's already more than most people will do. Just use every incounter to tell them not to smoke around the birds.

 

[Echo]

Well, IMO, clipping your bird's wings to prevent flight is putting them at risk. Their anatomy requires flight to achieve maximum air passing into their air sacs to produce oxygen for their lungs.

I don't smoke and am always surprised by the number of parrot owners who smoke, but I'm equally surprised at the number of parrot owners who refuse to let their birds fly.

Unfortunately there are veterinarians who convince owners that birds should not fly.

People have a misconception about clipping, and this post reinforces this. Clipping is not meant to handicap the bird by preventing it to fly! A well done trim should allow flight, however should slow down speed and prevent the bird from flying too far upward.
The WRONG way to trim is to cut all primary AND secondary feathers, which unfortunately some do! Then yes, the bird is not able to fly and you now have a pet rock instead of a bird! .

The number of flight feathers you trim depend on the species. The heavier the bird, the fewer feathers you should clip. I have never had to clip more that 6 feathers (each wing) on any of my birds to achieve the desired result.
I own BOTH CLIPPED AND FULL FLIGHTED birds. All of them are able to develop chest muscles and exercise through flight.

I know this post is not about clipping but I'm sick of hearing people judging bird owners who trim their birds flight feathers based on their misconception or what they have witnessed with a bird who received a bad clip.

 

[riaria]

I know people in the US tend to have different views on animal care than many here in the UK, but I'd hoped that they'd at least acknowledge that almost ALL parrots that are clipped are so not for their own safety, but for the *owner's convenience*. I don't know any decent, experienced avian vet that would encourage wing clipping. Saying that a clipped parrot cannot be happy is like saying that a child in a wheelchair cannot be happy, but that doesn't mean that we should put a child in a wheelchair just because it's easier for us if they can't run around. If you can't cope with a flying animal, then don't get a bird. There are plenty of other animals that are by nature confined to the ground.

 

[riaria]

Well, IMO, clipping your bird's wings to prevent flight is putting them at risk. Their anatomy requires flight to achieve maximum air passing into their air sacs to produce oxygen for their lungs.

I don't smoke and am always surprised by the number of parrot owners who smoke, but I'm equally surprised at the number of parrot owners who refuse to let their birds fly.

Unfortunately there are veterinarians who convince owners that birds should not fly.

People have a misconception about clipping, and this post reinforces this. Clipping is not meant to handicap the bird by preventing it to fly! A well done trim should allow flight, however should slow down speed and prevent the bird from flying too far upward.
The WRONG way to trim is to cut all primary AND secondary feathers, which unfortunately some do! Then yes, the bird is not able to fly and you now have a pet rock instead of a bird! .

The number of flight feathers you trim depend on the species. The heavier the bird, the fewer feathers you should clip. I have never had to clip more that 6 feathers (each wing) on any of my birds to achieve the desired result.
I own BOTH CLIPPED AND FULL FLIGHTED birds. All of them are able to develop chest muscles and exercise through flight.

I know this post is not about clipping but I'm sick of hearing people judging bird owners who trim their birds flight feathers based on their misconception or what they have witnessed with a bird who received a bad clip.

This is how it should be, ideally, if one insists on clipping. However, then the whole "for their own safety" argument doesn't hold. A properly clipped bird as described above can still fly out an open door, can still fly into a fan, a window, a mirror, into a pan of boiling water. So why then must it be clipped?

 

[sodakat]

Well, IMO, clipping your bird's wings to prevent flight is putting them at risk. Their anatomy requires flight to achieve maximum air passing into their air sacs to produce oxygen for their lungs.

I don't smoke and am always surprised by the number of parrot owners who smoke, but I'm equally surprised at the number of parrot owners who refuse to let their birds fly.

Unfortunately there are veterinarians who convince owners that birds should not fly.

People have a misconception about clipping, and this post reinforces this. Clipping is not meant to handicap the bird by preventing it to fly! A well done trim should allow flight, however should slow down speed and prevent the bird from flying too far upward.
The WRONG way to trim is to cut all primary AND secondary feathers, which unfortunately some do! Then yes, the bird is not able to fly and you now have a pet rock instead of a bird! .

The number of flight feathers you trim depend on the species. The heavier the bird, the fewer feathers you should clip. I have never had to clip more that 6 feathers (each wing) on any of my birds to achieve the desired result.
I own BOTH CLIPPED AND FULL FLIGHTED birds. All of them are able to develop chest muscles and exercise through flight.

I know this post is not about clipping but I'm sick of hearing people judging bird owners who trim their birds flight feathers based on their misconception or what they have witnessed with a bird who received a bad clip.

I clearly stated I was talking about birds who are clipped to prevent flight.

 

[ParkersMom]

as far as the smoking thing when I took Keiko in for her wellness the vet actually smelled her...lol and they said I guess you don't smoke. he said really I don't care if you do you can kill yourself but my concern is for the bird...lol
As far as clipping both mine fids are clipped for several reasons...I would love to have a fully flighted bird, however I also have several other pets 4 cats and 3 dogs and it's not at all worth the risk...I know keep the birds and other pets separate but I don't think that it is fair to the dogs and cats to be locked away for 3 or more hours a day either. also my house is not at all suited for a flighted Macaw she could very well break a wing just trying to fly down the hall

 

[Jtbirds]

Riaria your argument wouldn't ever work... Sorry more then half of parrot owners clip there birds and do it for many reasons and this will never change sadly. And to compare clipped parrots to kids in wheelchairs is quite um absurd.

Ok soda I gain a clearer understanding of your point my birds are not clipped to the point of no flight I just clip as echo has stated. Thanks for clarify I understand your point better now. I thought the post seemed Alittle out of your element.

 

[Echo]

Well, IMO, clipping your bird's wings to prevent flight is putting them at risk. Their anatomy requires flight to achieve maximum air passing into their air sacs to produce oxygen for their lungs.

I don't smoke and am always surprised by the number of parrot owners who smoke, but I'm equally surprised at the number of parrot owners who refuse to let their birds fly.

Unfortunately there are veterinarians who convince owners that birds should not fly.

People have a misconception about clipping, and this post reinforces this. Clipping is not meant to handicap the bird by preventing it to fly! A well done trim should allow flight, however should slow down speed and prevent the bird from flying too far upward.
The WRONG way to trim is to cut all primary AND secondary feathers, which unfortunately some do! Then yes, the bird is not able to fly and you now have a pet rock instead of a bird! .

The number of flight feathers you trim depend on the species. The heavier the bird, the fewer feathers you should clip. I have never had to clip more that 6 feathers (each wing) on any of my birds to achieve the desired result.
I own BOTH CLIPPED AND FULL FLIGHTED birds. All of them are able to develop chest muscles and exercise through flight.

I know this post is not about clipping but I'm sick of hearing people judging bird owners who trim their birds flight feathers based on their misconception or what they have witnessed with a bird who received a bad clip.

This is how it should be, ideally, if one insists on clipping. However, then the whole "for their own safety" argument doesn't hold. A properly clipped bird as described above can still fly out an open door, can still fly into a fan, a window, a mirror, into a pan of boiling water. So why then must it be clipped?

Have you ever seen a bird fly into a window full speed and brake its neck? By slowing them down you reduce the risk of injury. The bird might be a little disoriented but hopefully recovers without harm. Clipped or not, many dangers lurk in our house and care must be taken when cooking etc.....I can say that I can race my clipped birds and prevent them from getting into trouble, however no way can I compete with my flighted bird's speed!! It is a little more dangerous.

 

[MonicaMc]

Clipping, done for "safety", aggression, convenience/behavior aka lack of training. Clipped birds are also in more danger of flying into something because they can't properly steer. If they do happen to escape, they are in more danger from predators on the ground and in the air. Their ability for escape has been hindered by their clipped wings. For anyone who does clip, I hope that they understand the pros and cons to each side of the argument.

Should you clip your parrot
http://www.jaredworkman.com/macaw.html

I also hate seeing owners lose a bird, then forever swear to clip their birds

I did the opposite... I lost a clipped bird, and I swore I would never clip a bird again... If they were going to escape, they would have to be flighted to give them a bit of a chance of surviving... I did get my bird back, after he was in the wild for a whole agonising week...

Having flighted birds keeps you on your toes, and you don't just open the door, when someone knocks, unless you know exactly where everyone is.

If I had a house full of kids running in and out all day, I would clip or limit the birds' time out of cage...

I live alone and have full control over doors and windows in my house, and I love seeing my birds fly... I don't think there is a more beautiful sight...

On the topic of smoking around pets, I don't agree with it. In fact, I don't think humans should smoke around kids. That said, I grew up with family who smoked. My sister and I are the only ones in my entire family, that I know of, that have never smoked. (not counting my brother in law). In short, we had people smoking around us.



I do feel as if it could be considered animal cruelty to deny seeing someone's pets just because they smoke around their pets. Likewise, I also understand the vets disgust in what the humans are doing to their companions.