Senegal parrot horrible story

[Lintini]

Hey, I am so sorry for your loss, they are so adorable and it hurts to know they were so loved and now gone.

I wanted to tell you that I keep that same plant in with my panther chameleon. It is animal safe and he loves chilling on it. It came with the risks of bugs and fertilizer but I do a quarantine on my plants and I put small rocks on top of the soil to keep him out of it and have never had issues. I would rule out the plant in my opinion.

Again, so sorry for your loss

 

[WideO]

Update: the autopsy showed that Ollie had exactly the same symptoms as Nadi (who had been looked at by the emergency vet).

They found no obvious reason for the intestine lining erosion and do not think it is related to food. Both the university and the vet ruled out the grit - as has been said here, it should have been visible in their digestive tract, and there was none, nothing.

The plant was ruled out by both, and if there was fertilizer in the soil - which they doubt, as do we - it would have made them sick, but would not cause the symptoms they had found.

They now asked for permission to search both their blood samples for viruses. It was one of the vet's guesses, and the uni says it's the only thing they still suspect.

Although that adds a bit to the total cost (and yes, it's coming close to the price of the bird; we are not that rich, but we still feel it's our duty to find out as much as possible), we gave them the go-ahead. They might not find anything, but at least that way we can rule out another possible cause.

The only additional thought I had was that my neighbour keeps pigeons - a lot of them. We live in pigeon country, and they are located about 5 meters flight distance (with one glass wall, and two wooden ones in between) from where our birds lived. I don't know how close they needed to be to be infected (if it's a virus), I'm pretty sure there was no direct contact, drinking from the same water, sharing food etc. It would have to be airborne and able to travel 5-10 meters.

Does that sound like a possible cause?

PS: still miss them.

 

[Boysmom]

Thanks for the update WideO. You have certainly been diligent to find out what happened to your beloved birds. I hope you get an answer from the blood work of what caused their death.

I am not sure if that distance could have transferred an airborne illness. Could the neighbor perhaps used fans that could have blown the air your way ? Have you spoken to the neighbor with the pigeons to see if any are sick ?

 

[Billy29]

I had a sun conure who died unexpectedly at 5 years old. The vet wanted a necropsy done and I had mixed feelings on it. I ended up burying him and it took me 7 years to get another bird. Don't make the mistake I made and wait so long. I forgot how much happiness they bring into you life.
You sound like a very responsible bird owner so don't blame yourself, you did everything you were supposed to. I just hope in time you bring another bird into your life.

 

[MonicaMc]

I have no other ideas atm other than a virus or something. I hope that they can find out the cause of death.

 

[WideO]

Haven't spoken to the neighbour yet. We are on a friendly basis for 17 years and going, and I don't want to "accuse" him of something before I'm sure it was a virus. I will ask him though if it turns out to be. (he was building a new housing for the pigeons when all this happened)

One of our cats once killed one of his pigeons, we were horrified but immediately came clean with him. He said that the pigeon would have been ill, as normally a healthy one wouldn't venture on the ground/fences where they would be easy prey for felines. And if it wouldn't have been my cat, it would have been one of the others that roam around. Still, great reaction.

Same goes for fish BTW: a healthy fish in my pond will always be quicker than even the most patient cat, but they once caught a sick one who had jumped on shore. Anyway...

I'm flip-flopping on the "get another bird (or two)". Some days I think "ah, just go for it, you were just unlucky", other days "but not until you are very sure what happened, and besides, it seems that people with dogs or cats can not be good bird owners". I read that a lot.

I have looked at rescue animals, but most of their websites seem to snub me off with "people shouldn't get parrots anyway, but only care for local birds". Uh. OK.

Last possibility: our friends that were with us when we bought the birds came back a couple of days before this all happened. They had been looking for/at birds themselves at different places that week. So they were in contact with other birds and then with ours. Again, not accusing, they wouldn't have been aware anyway. Just picking my own brain.

We'll see what the blood work turns up.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

You can have cats, dogs and birds. We have a hyperactive 5lb yorkie and an older cat. The dog used to stare at the birds quite a bit, at first. Anytime she would try to go nose to nose with their cages, we'd shoo her away. Same with the cat. He's way more curious, though. His front paws are declawed but he still wants to go up to the cages sometimes. He gets shooed away, too. Sometimes his ears go flat against his head and he looks irritated when my conures go into their very loud am and pm calls, lol.

When the parrots are out, the dog and cat are safely locked away, of course.

Our dog barks a lot. In fact, the bird cages are by a large living room window and that's where the dog looks out and barks at passerbys, the mailman and other dogs.

Well, now the birds squawk VERY loudly whenever the dog barks. They have learned to screech and squawk at things that the dog normally barks at, even if she's not there.

Now most normal people would find this level of noise quite disturbing, but not us. It's actually kind of cool because now we have a guard dog and a couple of nosey guard parrots, too. They let me know if someone's at our door, approaching our house or pulling up the driveway.

I hope you get parrots again. What happened to you was utterly tragic. I lost a 'tiel after I'd only had him a month. My heart was broken but we went and purchased Trixie (GCC) not long after. She really helped me to heal and has been an amazing, mischievous companion. Now we also have Sunny who brings much love into our daily lives. :64:

 

[WideO]

Well, I can keep it short (but not sweet): birds tested positive for PBFD.

It explains a lot... the vet said there was nothing we could have done to save them.

It sadly also makes it very difficult to welcome other birds. But I'm glad we did get a definitive result.

Not sure yet about "next steps"

 

[ruffledfeathers]

I am "glad" for you, that you have an answer at least. It is heartbreaking but at least you know for sure that there is nothing you could have done differently. You gave them love during their short lives. Very sorry for your loss, as it's clear they truly touched your life while you had them.

 

[Billy29]

Just think of it this way, you gave them a wonderful home and they lived out their lives the best they could.

 

[Boysmom]

have you spoken to the shop you purchased them from and told them the results ? They really owe you on this, as you purchased what you thought was healthy birds and invested your heart and the outcome was that they were NOT healthy birds in the first place.

 

[MonicaMc]

Glad you were finally able to get definite results, but so sorry to hear what they were. I agree with Boysmom, you need to get a hold of the shop and notify them.

They should refund you the money you spent buying them, if not reimbursing some/fully for the necropsy costs as well. I wouldn't suggest getting any more birds from that store, though...

And it's hard to determine if it's ok or not to bring in any more birds...

 

[weco]

WideO, if you don't let this experience turn you off to enjoying one or more birds again, you will need to disinfect their cage & any surfaces they may have pooped on or regurgitated on.....

Now, there is information on the internet (for those who just do cursory informational searches...not you WideO) the posts/has erroneous information that there is no disinfectant for PBFD contamination and one of them is Drs. Foster & Smith, at their website: Psittacine Beak and Feather Disease (PBFD) in Birds

In part, they state:

How is PBFD prevented and controlled?

Birds should be purchased from suppliers with disease-free birds. New birds coming into facilities should be quarantined and tested. Repeat testing in 3-4 weeks to allow for the incubation period is recommended. Infected birds should be isolated and removed from breeding programs. Juvenile birds should be housed separately from adults. Bird owners need to understand that if they handle other peoples' birds, it may be possible for them to bring the virus into their home and infect their birds. Good hygiene and sanitation should be used. There is no known disinfectant that kills this virus.

There is a disinfectant and it's the only one recognized by the Australian government.....it is manufactured by DuPont under the trade name Virkon-S:

PBFD Disinfection of a PBFD Contaminated Environment at PsittacineBeakFeatherDisease.com is about PBFD

Here is a link to a MSDS published by Emory University here in Atlanta:

http://www.dar.emory.edu/safety/msds/VIRKON-S EPA REG 62432-1.pdf

And a safety data sheet published by The European Union:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=sR8xu9v-Quu8DMJmjx74fQ&bvm=bv.52164340,d.bGE

The only caution I might offer WideO, is that apparently this stuff is corrosive, but in solution for wiping down the cage, then rinsing, I would think you would be OK.....

For clarification, my interest in pointing out the erroneous information posted on Drs. Foster & Smith's website is to validate my position that even though a recognized website can and does post erroneous information.....we have some members on the forums who cannot understand/believe websites would post such erroneous information and have alluded to the possibility that some posters have embellished their postings.....

Sorry to have jumped into your thread like that WideO.....just thought it was worth pointing out to the few "doubting Thomases" we have around here.....

Good luck.....

 

[SoCalWendy]

Well, I can keep it short (but not sweet): birds tested positive for PBFD.

It explains a lot... the vet said there was nothing we could have done to save them.

It sadly also makes it very difficult to welcome other birds. But I'm glad we did get a definitive result.

Not sure yet about "next steps"

OMG wasn't expecting to hear it was that! I don't really know what I expected to hear. Please definitely go back to where you got them and inform them. Maybe they will offer to reimburse some of your costs. I wouldn't purchase any thing from them again. If and you decide to purchase another Senegal (some where else) make sure there is some sort of guarantee and immediate take the bird to the vet to get tested. As for as your cage and the area around your cage, I would clean it and clean it well. I hope someone else chimes in as to how to clean it, because from what I was told about the disease is that is sluffs off in the feces.

Your poor babies didn't have a chance. The place you got needs to be notified. I am so sorry.

Edited: So I went back to your first post. I read where you said that you had only had your baby Sennies for 14 days, that you purchased dog food from them, and they have known you for at least 8 years - you trust them. They may not even know they have a problem. They will need to contact whomever else they sold a bird to, or do something to make the public aware that they have a problem. There is no cure for this disease, so who knows how many other birds in their possession or have sold may be infected too. Please keep us updated.

 

[ShellyBorg]

clean, bleach then put your cage out in the sunlight for a good week. Sunlight kils so many germs.

Just to throw out a idea. There are shelters all over the country that need long term foster care for birds who have PDFD. Many will not adopt out these birds so they cover all vet costs. All you provide is a loving, caring home and food for a bird who needs it way more than most.

 

[WideO]

Thanks all, again very much appreciated. Yeah, ironically it turns out we did provide them with the best we could, they were happy until the end, and euthanizing the second bird (not an easy decision...) was the most "humane" thing to do, as the bird must have been in terrible pain by then.

Thanks for the further info on cleaning. I had been reading up yesterday, and got confused as you whether you can or can not disinfect the area they had been living in.

I know there's a lot of posts in this thread: we did contact the shop immediately after the birds had died, and after a first knee-jerk reaction of one employee ("there's not a single bird here that got sick too"), they made sounds like they wanted to make good, and mumbled about unscrupulous breeders. After the diagnosis, this all makes sense.

To make matters more interesting (well, not the best choice of word), a friend of ours who lives near the shop, buys the food for her pet rabbit there, and is planning to buy a bird too, noticed last week that all birds that used to be in the shop were gone, replaced by new ones...

Although technically it's my wife's money, I am starting to feel like they indeed owe me/her a full refund, as they sold us two young birds that had 0% chance of survival, and a contaminated cage and toys etc.

Furthermore, given how contagious and persistent this virus is, I'm now wondering how many birds in that shop caught it, and how many owners who looked at other birds may have infected their own healthy birds. That's a lot of heartbreak...

I will inform them today, although I'm still wondering if this could have happened without the knowledge of at least the breeder. Can that happen? I'm having a hard time to believe that, and the literature seems to indicate that often it's breeders who don't want to let go of their "investment" who promote this virus.

I don't want to be unreasonable, but I really think a full refund is in order, and I think it's fair to not want other birds from them.

Something that may interest you: they did not find a secondary infection. The birds tested negative for all known bacteria, parasites, and other viruses. So they really died directly from PBFD causing malnutrition and anemia.

I also wonder if there's an official body where we can send our information/confirmation/autopsy report, as I'm sure this is potentially valuable information when it comes to disease control.

Finally, we did look at shelters, but that was before we knew about PBFD. My head is spinning a bit, but I'll keep that option open.

Also: no "new" birds unless I have a certificate and a thorough check by our vet. (and a thorough decontamination...)

To be continued...

 

[SoCalWendy]

Thanks all, again very much appreciated. Yeah, ironically it turns out we did provide them with the best we could, they were happy until the end, and euthanizing the second bird (not an easy decision...) was the most "humane" thing to do, as the bird must have been in terrible pain by then.

Thanks for the further info on cleaning. I had been reading up yesterday, and got confused as you whether you can or can not disinfect the area they had been living in.

I know there's a lot of posts in this thread: we did contact the shop immediately after the birds had died, and after a first knee-jerk reaction of one employee ("there's not a single bird here that got sick too"), they made sounds like they wanted to make good, and mumbled about unscrupulous breeders. After the diagnosis, this all makes sense.

To make matters more interesting (well, not the best choice of word), a friend of ours who lives near the shop, buys the food for her pet rabbit there, and is planning to buy a bird too, noticed last week that all birds that used to be in the shop were gone, replaced by new ones...

Although technically it's my wife's money, I am starting to feel like they indeed owe me/her a full refund, as they sold us two young birds that had 0% chance of survival, and a contaminated cage and toys etc.

Furthermore, given how contagious and persistent this virus is, I'm now wondering how many birds in that shop caught it, and how many owners who looked at other birds may have infected their own healthy birds. That's a lot of heartbreak...

I will inform them today, although I'm still wondering if this could have happened without the knowledge of at least the breeder. Can that happen? I'm having a hard time to believe that, and the literature seems to indicate that often it's breeders who don't want to let go of their "investment" who promote this virus.

I don't want to be unreasonable, but I really think a full refund is in order, and I think it's fair to not want other birds from them.

Something that may interest you: they did not find a secondary infection. The birds tested negative for all known bacteria, parasites, and other viruses. So they really died directly from PBFD causing malnutrition and anemia.

I also wonder if there's an official body where we can send our information/confirmation/autopsy report, as I'm sure this is potentially valuable information when it comes to disease control.

Finally, we did look at shelters, but that was before we knew about PBFD. My head is spinning a bit, but I'll keep that option open.

Also: no "new" birds unless I have a certificate and a thorough check by our vet. (and a thorough decontamination...)

To be continued...

Thank you so much for keeping us updated on your situation. Kinda scary about what you said about the birds that were there, but aren't anymore and now they have new birds to sell... Hmmm sounds a bit like knew they had a problem. It could be isolated to one breeder they use, but infected the whole lot. Sad, so sad.

You are not being unreasonable at all. I hope you are able to recoup all the money you are out. Did you have some kind of guarantee with the store. Maybe you can find out who the actual breeder is. I don't know where you are located, but if you should decide to try again, seek out a reputable breeder or a bird store, instead of a pet store. We have several bird stores, in the San Diego area, they are dedicated to is birds only. One in particular offers a 30 day guarantee, but they also require the bird see an avian vet with two weeks of purchase.

Officially, maybe animal control could help you to figure out who to contact regarding avian disease control. I know when they were concerned about avian bird flu, if you saw a dead bird we would call animal control and report it.

 

[Echo]

WOW I'm so sorry! At least now you know that you didn't do anything wrong. Each bird I get is quarantined and tested for PBFD, along with Chlamydia, Polyoma and Pacheco's no matter where they come from.

If you do get a baby from a breeder, you can ask him to test the baby for all these BEFORE bringing him to your house.

 

[WideO]

I finally have some good news. I went to a vet this morning that specializes in birds/parrots. The practice has an international reputation - he was amazed that I lived in the same city, as most of their customers come from far away (even from across the border)

He put my mind at ease. First off, it's not uncommon for Senegals to lose a bit of weight when they are re-homed, so their weight (90 gram) wouldn't really have been a giveaway. I also showed him the pictures, and it confirmed what he sees mostly in juvenile parrots with PBFD: mostly nothing. According to him, the breeder might not have known, as the parents might look perfectly healthy, as do the young birds, until their immune system gives way. The story about them being OK until 3 PM and dying at 10 PM didn't surprise him either.

Their parents will have been the source with 99.9% certainty.

Obviously, the breeder should have had them tested...

He has a product that he uses in his practice, for patients, and on shows, called F10 SC, that is guaranteed to disinfect the cage/area, and is safe for humans and pets. It specifically mentions PBFD - so maybe this info is useful for other owners who sadly encounter this problem.

Furthermore, as I had read reports from an government website that Psittacosis can jump to humans who become carriers, he corrected me in that it's a different virus (chlamydia) and it's also very rare to infect humans. (sometimes reading too much can be a bad thing...)

This means that I feel confident enough to "try again". He needs one drop of blood and a week time to scan for the most common diseases, and advised me to make an agreement with the breeder that they will take back the birds if they are not 100% healthy. He also advised me to take them home with me after the blood sample, as they could get infected if they are not quarantined.

He further stated that at their age, the virus will not have reached their feathers or beak; it stays completely internal, so physical contact with the birds would not have been a problem: it's the saliva, feces, and (but less so) dust that are the main problem in that stage.

He's also partial to Senegals and said more people should try them, as they make excellent pets.

We will now contact the shop this weekend to see what can be done. I will not settle for half-baked solutions, as I don't want to go through this again, but we'll see what they have to say.

 

[weco]

Just took a quick look around & the "F10 SC" that WideO's new vet recommended is available in the UK, Australia & the U.S, so assume it can be sourced most places around the world.....