Salty is in trouble with plucking

[wrench13]

I've been reluctant to post this. Oddly, when your parrot starts to pluck, it makes the owner feel so inadequate, so much of a failure, I was quite overtaken with it and embarrassed!

About 2 months ago. we noticed a disturbance in his feathers on his upper breast. IT slowly progressed to the point where we knew there were feathers missing, and has now progressed to the point where there is bare skin showing. He has gone to his Avian vet 6 weeks ago and received a treatment for feather mites, even though the vet did not see any signs of them. Did not work and the condition continued. Then, 4 weeks ago, after discussion, the vet gave him the first of 2 Lupron shots, in the theory that his unusually strong mating season behavior this year was causing him to pluck. He got the second shot 1 week ago. It has not stopped the behavior so far and the bare spot continues to grow.

the vet did a full blood panel etc etc on the initial visit, everything is normal except his weight which is high and I've adjusted his diet to get him to trim down a bit.

What is really weird is - there are no feathers to be found, anywhere - not on the floor , not in his cage, nothing. Is It possible he is eating the feathers, totally, after he plucks them? Also weird is we never ever see him doing the plucking, only time possible could be when he is covered up for the night, which is 10PM to 10 AM.

Any ideas, anyone? Its so unusual for Amazons to pluck, but he is not the first Yellow Shoulder I have seen doing it. There is another one locally, and she is badly plucked. I've started to mist him every 2-3 days with water, but previously for the last 9 years its been more like 2-3 months, since his species is from an arid, dry environment.

Any thoughts, advice or comments? Trust me, for those of you whose parrots don't do this, if your parrot starts plucking , it is totally demoralizing!!

 

[LaManuka]

Master Wrench I'm so sorry you and Salty are going through this. I've never had a plucker, I did once have a quaker who exhibited some behaviour that I thought was plucking but thankfully it turned out to be something else altogether, but yes, it did make me feel like I'd failed him somehow. Most perplexing that you're not finding the plucked feathers anywhere though. But Salty could not be in better hands, if there is a solution to be found for this I know you will find it!

 

[rheashard2]

I sympathize with you. My first CAG started plucking and eating his feathers after a wing feather trim. Avian vet stated plucking is rare in wild parrots. Eating them is known across many species of wild birds. He recommended bitter apple spray. He said it didn't seem to stop plucking. It did seem to discourage eating. I gave it a try with limited visible effect. I did try a remedy a friend who had a severe plucker used. He used birdie poop suits. He sewed narrow short strips of fabric to breast. His macaw would work on the fabric strips. I used the poop suits but without strips (laziness). This was a long time ago. I don't even know if bitter apple spray is still used. My CAG stopped plucking. His macaw decreased plucking regrew most of his feathers. I am very paranoid about feather plucking.

 

[kme3388]

I’m very sorry that Salty, and his loved ones have to go through this. I hope he gets better. Feather plucking is not well understood from what I’ve gathered. I tried everything under the sun to help my feather pluckers. My mind expands endlessly on what causes this phenomenon in parrots because I want to help. Unfortunately I am not intelligent enough to figure this out. I wish I could. Salty is still beautiful, and he’s such a smart Amazon. I’ve always enjoyed watching the tricks you’ve trained him on.

 

[JjEjFjF]

Is It possible he is eating the feathers, totally, after he plucks them?

I was told by a guy who makes and sells probiotics. Supposedly he has worked with Lafebers in past years.
Anyhow, he claims if a bird is lacking protein they will eat their own feathers. (feathers are made up of protein)He did mention chest feathers specifically.
If you don’t already, i suggest feeding him some scrambled eggs a couple days a week. Or egg food.

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

TROUBLE is right. If that sassafrasing bird does not stop it right now.

oh no!!! feeling for you and Salty.
You are the best paront ever, not one thing that you did caused this.

In the end, end, end they are just not supposed to live with us.

Sensitive creatures, that can be set off by any disturbance.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Salty is one of the last parrots I would have predicted to pluck. It just goes to show you that even with the best possible care our parrots may pluck. I hope it's a short episode and he stops and regrow. There's a quaker on YouTube named Auggie (the talking, dancing "Makin Bacon Pancakes" bird) who is very well taken care of by the woman who rescued her and despite the great care, Auggie plucks, regrows and plucks again. The owner recently discussed the issue of people automatically thinking a parrot who plucks is neglected and depressed which isn't true. Some neglected depressed parrots pluck and some don't. Some happy healthy parrots pluck and some don't.
Don't be embarrassed. I am glad that budgies very rarely pluck. It would be hard to deal with.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

The Goffins Cockatoo, Casper, I had for five years from 3 months old and rehomed to a friend whos a serious parrot person started plucking soon after I rehomed her. She has tried prescription Haloperidol from her avian vet and I'm not sure how well it worked. Casper wears a "vest" that my friend made for her to protect her skin and feathers and give her something else to chew on. Casper is now 32 years old and seems to be doing well but I know the plucking has been an on and off problem for many years.

 

[Vampiric_Conure]

!!! Poor Salty! I'm sure you'll find a solution! If not, know he is loved and well cared for!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Bless you, Wrenchie, for starting this thread. The Rb went 35+ years without plucking, but then started plucking a bald collar for himself. Everything you said is so so so so true. I'm simultaneously embarrassed and guilty and sad and... and... and...
I hope that when respected people like you acknowledge the problem, it consoles/relieves/absolves others, like me.
I love ya, Wrenchie. I do.

 

[Thechoplady]

Some Avian vets are having great success with Haldol for feather plucking. I know its controversial for some. Personally, im all for it. People have their coping mechanisms, whether it be caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, meds, etc. I think parrots too, need coping mechanisms if need be. I believe Haldol can help parrots cope with captivity, stress, anxiety, etc. It is not your fault. You could do everything 100% right and your bird may still pluck. It is in no way a negative reflection on you.
Haldol for feather plucking

 

[saxguy64]

Al my friend, I feel for you. Plucking is such a complex issue. It's heartbreaking to see it happen. My pluckers came to me with long histories of it. You feel like you're doing right by them as best you can when the start to grow a few feathers back, and then disappointment in yourself when those beautiful new ones disappear. Or inadequate, and all the other feelings you mentioned. I always end up going to "if I could just..." or "I should have..." So hard to accept that it's something out of your control. In Salty's case where it's a new behavior, I'm praying you'll find the root of it, or ways to distract him from continuing. It's obviously not an issue with him being bored because he doesn't get attention and enrichment in his life, with all you do with him. You're an amazing parrot dad, Al. I know it's hard to buy into the "don't beat yourself up over it" idea, cuz that's what we all do, but seriously, don't. I know you'll leave no stone unturned looking for answers, and I hope you are able to find them

 

[JjEjFjF]

MIA
Where are you @wrench13 ?

 

[rheashard2]

Some Avian vets are having great success with Haldol for feather plucking. I know its controversial for some. Personally, im all for it. People have their coping mechanisms, whether it be caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, meds, etc. I think parrots too, need coping mechanisms if need be. I believe Haldol can help parrots cope with captivity, stress, anxiety, etc. It is not your fault. You could do everything 100% right and your bird may still pluck. It is in no way a negative reflection on you.
Haldol for feather plucking

I basically agree but... The situations are created, have to have that cup of coffee, etc. We've created a give a pill and forget society. The creator of penicillin stated care must be used because the risk of antibiotic resistant organisms was a strong possibility. It was ignored. End result is millions spent on creating superior antibiotics, resulting in super bugs. Giving herbs, drugs etc should be a last resort for all pets. In humans the effects positive and negative can and are vebalized. Unfortunately pets can't do this. Dogs, cats can't say they feel like they have 4 left feet. A bird cannot say the perch isn't where they think it is. Neither can they say if/when the effects are accumulating.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Haldol has is not without problems. I was a pharma rep for 12 years (it was an amazing cushy job) and sold Haldol. It's a powerful antipsychotic/neuroleptic used for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder along with agitation and delusions of senile dementia. It can cause temporary effects like sedation and a permanent movement disorder called tardive diskenesia.
However, it has been used in parrots that pluck for decades with varying amounts of success.

 

[JjEjFjF]

We've created a give a pill and forget society.

Fact.
Every time a person goes to the dr,, they would rather give pills instead of finding the root cause. And then perhaps another pill to cover up the ill effects of the first pill. Its really sad.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Some Avian vets are having great success with Haldol for feather plucking. I know its controversial for some. Personally, im all for it. People have their coping mechanisms, whether it be caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, meds, etc. I think parrots too, need coping mechanisms if need be. I believe Haldol can help parrots cope with captivity, stress, anxiety, etc. It is not your fault. You could do everything 100% right and your bird may still pluck. It is in no way a negative reflection on you.
Haldol for feather plucking

I found this video link absolutely fascinating and enlightening. I must say, although many people are against giving these birds drugs because it isn't solving the root problem and isnt natural, Dr Jenkins made a really good point that we put these birds that are supposed to be wild, parent raised creatures into a very unnatural environment and expect to be able to satisfy all their needs when it probably isn't possible for most of us. If giving these birds that pluck Haldol to give them a chance to live a happier life free of self mutilation. I'm all for it if alternatives fail, which according to Dr Jenkins, they ultimately will fail, because the bird's brain has learned that plucking makes it feel good. Just like human obsessive compulsive behaviors, it becomes automatic, but as intelligent as these birds are, they aren't capable of understanding why they need to stop and can't use cognitive behavior modification to achieve that goal like humans can.

 

[Thechoplady]

I found this video link absolutely fascinating and enlightening. I must say, although many people are against giving these birds drugs because it isn't solving the root problem and isnt natural, Dr Jenkins made a really good point that we put these birds that are supposed to be wild, parent raised creatures into a very unnatural environment and expect to be able to satisfy all their needs when it probably isn't possible for most of us. If giving these birds that pluck Haldol to give them a chance to live a happier life free of self mutilation. I'm all for it if alternatives fail, which according to Dr Jenkins, they ultimately will fail, because the bird's brain has learned that plucking makes it feel good. Just like human obsessive compulsive behaviors, it becomes automatic, but as intelligent as these birds are, they aren't capable of understanding why they need to stop and can't use cognitive behavior modification to achieve that goal like humans can.

Well said and I agree.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Fact.
Every time a person goes to the dr,, they would rather give pills instead of finding the root cause. And then perhaps another pill to cover up the ill effects of the first pill. Its really sad.

I think we need to give the Drs a bit of a break here. People are very often NOT willing to do the things required to prevent or reverse medical problems caused in part by lifestyle and diet, in part by genetics, and in part by plain old bad luck. For example. Dr's DO tell type two diabetics to eat better, lose weight, and exercise but it's easier for people to take a pill than do all those things. Same with many cases of high blood pressure, coronary artery disease, and, often a contributing underlying cause of high cholesterol. Isn't it easier to take a statin than change your diet? We can't change our genetics and bad luck. Same with most COPD. Many smokers claim they can't stop and without medication can't breathe well.

As for things like allergies, Dr's DO tell people to avoid the allergen and people try but some allergens are hard to avoid so they take a pill.

 

[rheashard2]

The above was truer 60+ yrs ago in the days of Marcus Welby, MD television series. It is less true now. People want a fast solution. They want, expect that pill or procedure to cure them. Doctors are becoming quota oriented. Haldol is a first generation antipsychotic drug. It's market is shrinking. How can a company prop up dwindling profits? Find another market, look for 'plausible' truths and then the door is cracked open. A few of the common side effects are annoying in a human. These same effects can be fatal in birds. Documented over decades: need for increased dosage to get same effects, uncontrolled muscle spasm in face, eyes, mouth; difficulty swallowing, tight throat; mood swings, trouble breathing and so much more. Note these are common problems. Can your pet be it bird, dog, cat or whatever tell you these are bothering it? No, only observation can.