Rudy at Brandywine Park Wilmington DE

[Anansi]

LOL. So I tried tossing a tissue over Kiwi's head to see if it would make him more "docile". It had a rather opposite effect and angered/greatly offended the green demon. I'm still getting the stink eye from him over it

Ouch. "Don't make him angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry." (Any Bill Bixby fans in the house?)

 

[DiscoDuck]

LOL. So I tried tossing a tissue over Kiwi's head to see if it would make him more "docile". It had a rather opposite effect and angered/greatly offended the green demon. I'm still getting the stink eye from him over it

Its difficult for me to write so that things aren't taken out of context. the following will be what I consider as my bulleted thoughts.

• 
  I have observed Rudy responsive to new stimuli he hasn't seen before.
  I have seen Rudy go completely docile when his eyes are covered.
  I dont remember any negativity on his part when first introduced to "hooding"
  I call it "hooding" from what they similarly do with BOP's
  To me draping a thin peice of tee shirt material is nearly the same as wrapping his cage before bed time.
  What do they call what Matadors do with Bulls?
  I think you just tried to tame a bull and he won.
  I would have draped a light weight tee shirt material quickly over his head.
  I have no experience of how any parrot would react to that cloth material blocking his or her eyesight.
  I can only draw correlations to what I have seen other professionals similarly do.

There is no doubt in my mind that parrots are very adaptive to their environment and members of their flock. Now whether their Adaptive behavior is good or bad depends on what the Parronts post. I dont think there is any one good or bad way.

Id like to think that if another parrot is friendly to me, then any future interaction will likely have what I consider positive results. Including hooding. I would love to put this to the test. I can not remember having held any more than a couple birds at the pet store.

Everything I have done with Rudy has been waaaaay easier than I thought "training" him would be.

send me your bird!!

 

[Kiwibird]

Its difficult for me to write so that things aren't taken out of context. the following will be what I consider as my bulleted thoughts.

• 
  I have observed Rudy responsive to new stimuli he hasn't seen before.
  I have seen Rudy go completely docile when his eyes are covered.
  I dont remember any negativity on his part when first introduced to "hooding"
  I call it "hooding" from what they similarly do with BOP's
  To me draping a thin peice of tee shirt material is nearly the same as wrapping his cage before bed time.
  What do they call what Matadors do with Bulls?
  I think you just tried to tame a bull and he won.
  I would have draped a light weight tee shirt material quickly over his head.
  I have no experience of how any parrot would react to that cloth material blocking his or her eyesight.
  I can only draw correlations to what I have seen other professionals similarly do.

There is no doubt in my mind that parrots are very adaptive to their environment and members of their flock. Now whether their Adaptive behavior is good or bad depends on what the Parronts post. I dont think there is any one good or bad way.

Id like to think that if another parrot is friendly to me, then any future interaction will likely have what I consider positive results. Including hooding. I would love to put this to the test. I can not remember having held any more than a couple birds at the pet store.

Everything I have done with Rudy has been waaaaay easier than I thought "training" him would be.

send me your bird!!

No offense or anything taken

Rudy is a young bird, presumably hand raised by a reputable breeder and loved all his life. He is also a GW macaw, a species known for being "lap birds" (by that I mean very affectionate and receptive to human contact). It's not surprising to me he responds in that way to a cloth over his head. Kiwi, on the other hand, is a roughly 20 y/o rescue bird who has been through several homes and was thoroughly traumatized in his past. I have an extensive list of reasons why, but suffice to say I strongly suspect he was parent raised and not hand fed. He is also a male BFA, a species known for being more hands off if not a tad aggressive after sexual maturity, especially the males. It wasn't exactly shocking he was not amused to have a tissue tossed on his head He's actually a pretty good boy and better trained than most birds at this point and actually does become quite docile in low lighting. But a cloth over the head? That was never going to fly. Just me harassing him because I knew I could get away with it...once

 

[DiscoDuck]

Thank you for the info Kiwi. As you may know I had a BFA also. He came in thru the port of San Diego. His actual birthdate was unknown. anyways Teri pointed out what might be some helpful interactions.

She mentions playing with your bird with material that you might able to flip onto his head. the one thing that we have seen numerous times is how that "hooding" does seemingly turn the bird "docile".

You have given me an item for me to add to my "bucket list" Thanks!

That is to seek out others who interact with their birds and see if the Cloth hood can work for them. ( I use a 8"x8" square of white tee shirt) Keep trying, I really believe in the idea of hooding....

which makes me wonder, how do they get those leather hoods on raptors? any ways...

Best of luck! Dont give up!

I fledged Rudy. He came thru the southern DE "Bird Farm" so yes.. Rudy's adaptation was very easy in my eyes comparatively to your involvement .. keep trying things!

 

[DiscoDuck]

We have expanded our territory to include the concrete jungle. Specifically downtown Wilmington and the Riverfront. We are continuing to meet people many of who have parrots at home even going so far as Scarlets and Greenwings.

Rudy bit his first person (semi- severely) a couple of nights ago. Its an interesting story (and I have pics) if anyone wants to hear it.. post up! Type to y'all soon!

 

[DiscoDuck]

Interesting sequence of events from these images.

I dont carry a phone as a general rule with Rudy. He has eaten 2 phones so far. This is the only time I have taken my phone and subsequently nearly documented the exact time this girl had her finger opened up. In retrospect, looking at these couple of shots, I should have noticed. except... it wasn't until Rudy was back on my shoulder that she got bit.

This girl had met Rudy and I previously. Rudy had also sat on her arm previously. THis time things.. uh....escalated.

Not sure how to describe what Rudy may have been thinking. All I know is that when she reached up while Rudy was back on my shoulder is when he latched down on her index finger. Her mother and other family members were there, they informed me she had been drinking. She, I guess, was very continuing to be very comfortable with Rudy and then crossed the proverbial line and got double-crossed.

All comments including the most negative and harsh ones are appreciated!

 

[Anansi]

Wow. First things first, how is she? I hope that she wasn't hurt too badly.

No harsh commentary here, DD. Just some advice. You've mentioned before that Rudy was getting increasingly nippy, so this marks an escalation of an existing pattern. You need to be very careful going forward, both for the safety of the people around you and for Rudy himself. A macaw beak can break a finger if said macaw is so inclined, and I know you don't want anyone getting seriously hurt by Rudy. On top of that is the possibility of Rudy being seriously hurt as well when the bitten person reacts. And finally, you have to consider the legal ramifications should someone seek to take legal action against you.

I think that you need to determine why exactly this is happening. Is it that he's coming into puberty and hormones has him a bit grumpy? Or is there something inherent to the situation itself that is rubbing him the wrong way? Mark you, even if something in this woman's behavior triggered the event, the onus is still on you to prevent it from happening.

Here is a link you might find helpful with your situation: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

Personally, I always take the possibility of my birds biting anyone VERY seriously. And some birds are just less reliable in this regard than others. For instance, only close friends or family who are VERY familiar with Maya and understand all of the inherent risks that come with the Ginsu blade attached to her face are allowed to hold her. A stranger or someone new to her would never be allowed to try and touch her.

Jolly, on the other hand, has literally never bitten anyone. He truly lives up to his name. So if someone was curious about birds and wanted to try having him step up for them, he's the one I'd choose. But only after going over how exactly they should approach him to minimize his anxiety about meeting someone new. And if he eventually did start getting a bit nippy, I'd dial way back on those privileges until he had once again earned my trust in that arena. Or until I'd determined what exactly had triggered the change in his behavior and eliminated it as an issue.

This caution protects the people with whom my birds come into contact, my birds from accidental reflexive harm, and me from any fiscal ramifications.

 

[Scott]

I cannot add a single word to Anansi's comprehensive post other than reiterate how much worse this could have been. Considering the mouth-to-beak image posted, the lady is lucky Rudy chose a finger rather than a nose, lip, earlobe, eyebrow, cheek, etc.

Have you had further contact with her? Is she healing well, any stated intent to file a complaint?

 

[Kiwibird]

Anansi's response is right about what I'd say.

THIS very scenario is why, despite now being harness trained, I still take Kiwi into public situations in the bird backpack. I'm so scared he'll bite someone and we'll end up liable. I've been on the receiving end of Kiwi's bites and in a sue happy world, a stranger being on the receiving end of one is a lawsuit waiting to happen. That protective barrier of the POB keeps him safe from the world and the world safe from him even though I'm fairly certain at this point he wouldn't bite anyone. Still better safe than sorry IMO. If I were you, seeing as Rudy is far too large for a bird backpack, perhaps it would just be best to no longer allow anyone to hold or touch him.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Terrifying.
Out of protectiveness and care for Rudy's safety from seizure (or even counter-attack by a victim) I'm glad you'll be keeping him away from these dangers. I'm very grateful this incident provided a significantly serious warning without facial mauling of the lady. I hope she's okay.

 

[SailBoat]

I truly wished that I could say that this was unforeseen. Others have well covered the many dangers when a Parrot Owner 'assumes' their Parrot will interact well with other people. In addition, if you where the one taking the photos that even makes this situation worst as you could not quickly avert the likely bite.

From the cold legal corner, you are full liable for any and all medical costs, plus pain and suffering ruling by a court. I only hope you have a minimum of 1 million dollar liability coverage, because if she choose to take you to court there is a high likelihood she will win!

A bunch more, I hope you get the general drift.

 

[DiscoDuck]

because if she choose to take you to court there is a high likelihood she will win!

A bunch more, I hope you get the general drift.

I do.. I will post some more later. There were enough witnesses who saw her reach up to Rudy while he was on my shoulder well after the above photos, while I was looking and talking to others in the crowd. There was also a professional photographer there who has taken video of Rudy..

Identifying aggressiveness is key here. Rudy did not lunge he simply grabbed a finger with his beak that she presented to him. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[BluenGold_Congo]

By that last picture I thought she got wacked on the nose...I bet she thought she was special enough to jump into Rudy's personal space/spotlight. ....there's a term for women like that... attention _____ fill in the blank.

 

[SailBoat]

because if she choose to take you to court there is a high likelihood she will win!

A bunch more, I hope you get the general drift.

I do.. I will post some more later. There were enough witnesses who saw her reach up to Rudy while he was on my shoulder well after the above photos, while I was looking and talking to others in the crowd. There was also a professional photographer there who has taken video of Rudy..

Identifying aggressiveness is key here. Rudy did not lunge he simply grabbed a finger with his beak that she presented to him. Nothing more, nothing less.

Responding to your statement: " I should have noticed. except... it wasn't until Rudy was back on my shoulder that she got bit."

Dog bits Human, Dog owner gets sued, fact of life! The owner is responsible at all times to assure the safety of others!

I work with elderly and young children and follow very specific guidelines to 'greatly limit' such events. There are no excuses, there never should be. She got bit.

FYI: Regardless of how 'special' someone thinks they may or may not be, if they get bit, its the owners responsibility.

 

[BluenGold_Congo]

because if she choose to take you to court there is a high likelihood she will win!

A bunch more, I hope you get the general drift.

I do.. I will post some more later. There were enough witnesses who saw her reach up to Rudy while he was on my shoulder well after the above photos, while I was looking and talking to others in the crowd. There was also a professional photographer there who has taken video of Rudy..

Identifying aggressiveness is key here. Rudy did not lunge he simply grabbed a finger with his beak that she presented to him. Nothing more, nothing less.

Responding to your statement: " I should have noticed. except... it wasn't until Rudy was back on my shoulder that she got bit."

Dog bits Human, Dog owner gets sued, fact of life! The owner is responsible at all times to assure the safety of others!

I work with elderly and young children and follow very specific guidelines to 'greatly limit' such events. There are no excuses, there never should be. She got bit.

FYI: Regardless of how 'special' someone thinks they may or may not be, if they get bit, its the owners responsibility.

Actually one could argue that sticking your finger in the parrot's space-being that he was on the owners shoulder at the time and in a radius of personal space, constitutes "provocation". Would you walk up to a big dog and put your hand within striking distance of his mouth? I know I wouldn't.

She got bit because she stuck her finger in his face..Judge Judy would tell her to go pound dirt.

...There are a few exceptions, though. Even in a strict liability state, you're usually not liable if your dog bites:

• a trespasser (someone who is on your property without your permission),
  or
• someone who provokes the dog, by hitting it or otherwise acting aggressively toward it.[/SIZE]

 

[SailBoat]

The legal point you bring has some merit. But, that is very likely not what happened in this case. Remember, the Parrot was first provided to the Human!

Regarding Judge Judy, I would not make that assumption one way or the other. In addition, please read with detail the Legal segment you provided.

 

[DiscoDuck]

She put her hand up into and onto Rudy while he was on my shoulder while my my focus was on someone else was in the group.

The picture shown, was while Rudy the pirate, was grabbing her ring. She and all others, are aware of that. Since that incident. Another photographer on site has confirmed she understands what happened.

She caused the "bite" nothing more, nothing less. For every action, there is a reaction.

 

[DiscoDuck]

Rudy and I have been doing our local ethnic festival events here in Wilmington DE. We had the week long Greek Festival and are now in at the start of the Italian Festival.

Both Countries are solidly represented here with Wilmingtons historical past. Its been a lot of fun along with me to very warily, be aware of those who par take with Ouzo and Vineyards!

I think its been a great opportunity to educate many upon many so far on what it takes, what it is like and what it entails to have such an awesome animal as a pet!

 

[SailBoat]

The legal point you bring has some merit. But, that is very likely not what happened in this case. Remember, the Parrot was first provided to the Human!

Regarding Judge Judy, I would not make that assumption one way or the other. In addition, please read with detail the Legal segment you provided.

Sailboat , put your sails up. you are in still waters. as evidenced by your post.

She put her hand up into and onto Rudy while he was on my shoulder while my my focus was on someone else was in the group.

The picture shown, was while Rudy the pirate, was grabbing her ring. She and all others, are aware of that. Since that incident. Another photographer on site has confirmed she understands what happened.

She caused the "bite" nothing more, nothing less. For every action, there is a reaction.

End of story Sailboat.

Glad you believe that. You stay with that belief. May it serve you well.

In public places, you are responsible for the control of your Parrot. I followed that rule for over 40 years and have been very lucky thus far. I believe of the two of us, you are the one who has had an incident.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Even though Amy is very well socialized and enjoys meeting "new" people..anytime we are out and someone wants to "pet" him or hold him..I STRONGLY tell the OP "I am not responsible IF he bites..be for warned!"


Even though I can read how he is feeling at the time very well..even if I think everything is ok...there is still that chance!

A few years back,when my GF was living with me (she and Amy got along wonderfully) I was out of the room when Arleen opened up Amys front door to get him out of his house,and inserted her hand in said cage..CHOMP went Amy,to the tune of fracturing (hair line) Arleens index finger

Even I,after all these years,NEVER put my hand in Amy's house when he is in there. That's HIS space,and always will be,and if I was in the room at the time Arleen tried that stunt,she would have been warned by me.

Then there was the time at Wal-Mart,when Amy was riding on the carriage handle bars and this !@#$% woman came up to us,reaching out with her hand as she said "oh what a pretty bird,does IT bite..can I pet IT?"
She kept reaching and Amy told her I BITE! The ladies eyes bugged out and mouth dropped as she turned and beat-feet away from us lol


Jim