Radio Free Blue & Gold: All Gus, all the time.

[Anansi]

So glad that Gus has received the all-clear with the yeast issue! He may not show his appreciation much, but you take great care of him.

If you're cutting down on the sugar in his diet, and thus the amount of fruit, but still want to give him some to boost variety and such, 2 good ones to go with are blueberries and pomegranates. I mention these two because they are extremely nutritious for fruits. Far more so than grapes, which don't carry much by way of nutrition at all. So all the sugar without the benefits. (Though getting him to try something new at all is a definite win, my friend.)

As for the whole thing with his behavior when Jeff is around, it's just that Jeff is his person. My wife and Maya have a very similar relationship to the one you have with Gus. To the point where she has joked, much like you have, that she is merely a transport vehicle for Maya from the cage to the tree stand. Lol! And yes, Maya will be cool with Aida until I enter the room... or until she even hears my voice. Then the chances of Aida getting tagged are a lot higher. The reaction is very much like someone getting caught by their boyfriend/girlfriend while flirting with someone else. Maya tries to distance herself as much as possible the instant she realizes I might "catch her in the act". Hahaha! Parrots are hilarious!

 

[Kentuckienne]

Probably nothing more than, to use your choice of word 'toleration' out of dependency. If there is no one else around what choice does Gus have? He's hungry and you have the food.

If there were additional family members then they would fill the void?

He's never hungry. He likes Harrison's pepper pellets and always has two bowls of them available - one on top of the cage and one inside, and water in both locations.

I don't mind being "tolerated" ... that's how it starts with rescue birds sometime. They don't trust anybody, including you....then they decide maybe you aren't going to eat them...then they decide they want that treat/ride/toy enough to accept it...then they decide that getting a treat/ride/whatever is actually fun, or at least neutral. If I don't get any further than being accepted as a flock mate, that's fine. It's not about what I need or want, it's about what will make Gus's life better. Who knows, maybe he'll flip one day and we'll get the good stuff, the cuddles and love? A girl can dream.

 

[Kentuckienne]

If you're cutting down on the sugar in his diet, and thus the amount of fruit, but still want to give him some to boost variety and such, 2 good ones to go with are blueberries and pomegranates. I mention these two because they are extremely nutritious for fruits.
....
My wife and Maya have a very similar relationship to the one you have with Gus. To the point where she has joked, much like you have, that she is merely a transport vehicle for Maya ...

Oh that's a good point - Gus loves blueberries. Haven't tried pomegranate but it's getting to be the season.

The funny thing about being a parrot taxi is how fast they flip from "cone get me right now, I gave to get over there, hurry up" to "aargh! Get away from me you monster!" It must be hard wired - a parrot without a flock dies, a parrot without a mate might lose his flock - and so alien to the human social structure. Too bad they have to put up with us. Can you imagine the things they'd write about us if they had their own parrot forum?

 

[Kentuckienne]

There is some joy in Mudville! Gus and I are on our own for a couple days. For dinner I had some fancy-schmancy red beans and rice made with smoked sausage, red beans, uh, rice, peppers, and the remains of some of the finest smoked pork butt in Memphis. It was in the freezer because Jeffs mostly a vegetarian. Gus was making hungry squawks. Is he finally figuring out where food comes from? So I gave him a spoon full of like three red beans, some rice, and some thick juice with a tiny shred of meat figuring he could have fun throwing it on the floor. Nuh-uh...he SCARFED it down as fast as he could and croaked for more. He NEVER eats beans. He wound up eating three spoons full and licking the bowl clean, which is a first. A bit later he had to let some of it go, so to speak, and asked for a ride. But when I put my arm up, he made the bitey face. I put on two sweatshirts and got brave enough to risk it, and he stepped up....he croaked again, shifted nervously, but didn't bite me. Off to the perch where he made great boons for me. Then wouldn't let me anywhere near.

Around 9... its past his bedtime...he growls and beaks at me when I ask is he ready to go to bed...so I went and wrapped foam padding around my arm and put on the two sweatshirts over that, and waited. He'll get thirsty eventually. Turned out most of the room lights. He started looking at his cage and grumbling, moving one foot to another...so I cranked up me nerve and this time he stepped right up, just assertively enough to let me know he was keeping an eye on me, and let me put him in his cage. Went right on to his perch to get a drink.

And that's a totally good day for us. We had supper as a family, he took two rides without making any more holes in my arm, and he ate beans! Thanks for all the encouragement. Sometimes I lose hope and then he goes and acts almost normal. Not going to think about how I wish it would be...just take one slow day at a time. Never give up on your birdies, friends.

 

[Anansi]

You'll wear him down, Karen. You've just got to be one day more stubborn than he is!

Supper, two rides and no holes in your arm! Sounds like a win to me!

 

[Kentuckienne]

You've just got to be one day more stubborn than he is!

That should be the mantra of all bird rescuers!

 

[wrench13]

Let's see what today brings. Gus allowing scratches?

 

[Kentuckienne]

Let's see what today brings. Gus allowing scratches?

OH! I've been working in the loft, and around lunchtime he started making anxious croaks, which usually mean he wants to go poop. When I got downstairs he was halfway down the door, swinging one foot out wildly, stepped right up, got to the perch and made some HUGE poops. Maybe not so many beans tonight for dinner. He sat there a minute...usually he lets me take him to the perch but not pick him up again...but he did step up with just a bit of hesitation. But then he wouldn't go back on his cage. Usually he can't wait to get the heck off my arm.

We went and sat on the screen porch...he came down off my shoulder and sat on my knee, and let me scratch his head! But only for about five minutes, then the foot came back up. I gave him a ride back to the cage because I don't want to push it. Let him be in control. I thought I'd never feel parrot feathers again!

So yeah, good day today. It's funny how he is so different when there is only one person around. I figure, when Jeff gets home he'll probably resort to the old ways, but maybe we can swing him back into being more of a family bird. I can hope!

 

[SailBoat]

Amazons are know for the: If you can't Love the one you want, Love the one you are with!!! We have seen this over the many Amazons and Years as they all commonly have a favorite. This commonly is a huge door opener to loving both. Time line is normally late in year three. But that's Amazons, not sure what kind of time line MAC's work on.

 

[Anansi]

Nice! He opened the door to head scratches! That's a milestone!

 

[Kentuckienne]

Gus update!

We have been away for a couple of weeks - even got to stop by Sailboat’s place and speak to Julio about that schoolyard incident. So nice to be temporarily ruled by an Amazon again...but I digress. While we were gone, Gus stayed with my sister - he knows her and her house. He has to stay upstairs in lockdown because she has SEVEN (7) cats, but she spent as much time with him as she could. He solicited head scratches and didn’t go inside his cage once. The day after we got home, she had to go on a business trip with her husband, so I’m babysitting SEVEN (7) cats at her place and staying in the Gus suite upstairs. I figured, he’s got used to a new person, I’m more familiar, maybe I can take advantage of the situation to bond with him a little before taking him home to Master.

And it’s working! As soon as he saw me, he did the head stretch/tiny eye thing. Came over right away and didn’t want to go back on the cage. I fixed his food and water and he ate like an entire bowl of pellets, drank a bunch of water, then asked back. He sat on my knee, and not only let me scratch his head but picked up my hand with his beakif I stopped. He had a huge batch of new feathers that needed preening. I do the best I can but my fingers aren’t nearly as dexterous as a beak so he has to skwawk at me now and then. It’s been two days now...

I watch him. Sometimes he stares sideways towards the door...is he looking for Sis to come back? For Master? He desperately wants to be on me all the time, but with a bit of reserve - I’m not the Beloved. I take my cues from him...if he’s enjoying something I keep doing it. If he seems uncomfortable I back off. I hope he will remember that I’m OK, that at least three people in the world are OK, and when we are back home he will continue to spend a little time with me.

I know it’s not likely. I watch him. Yes, he does things that look familiar, he gets nervous and relaxed just like a human, he thinks, he uses logic and memory and is kind of predictable. But he’s ALIEN. He’s a parrot. His “visible” mind swims in a deep sea of instinct. Under that veneer of tameness lies something unimaginable to me, hard-wired instinct, an ancient dance of parrot being written into his DNA. Part of him is untouchable. When he sits on me, I’m simultaneously astonished at his miraculous nearness and awed by the vast gulf that separates us. I wonder, what does he feel? With no memories since chick-hood of a flock of others like him? Does he feel drawn to something he can’t imagine either? He seems so fragile and blue, and I love him helplessly. He seems so alien and alone, and I wish I could give him another B&G to love.

It’s just about Gotcha Day - I think he came home with us around October 10th last year - so I’m sure we haven’t seen his true self yet. Maybe one day the anxiety and fear will fall away like an old feather, and he’ll feel safe, feel like he owns the space he inhabits and be free, as free as any of us can be...

In the meantime I have one more full day of My Own Personal Gus-ness and I’m not going to waste it. I got a bag of fresh pistachios and a new toy and some ripping papers. Party on, Gus!

 

[Kentuckienne]

I have to do something to help Gus. I've been watching him, and he seems to have increasing difficulty getting around. This week, it took him two tries to step from the top of the cage door to the top of the cage - maybe 4 or 5 inches max. He moves slowly. He barks sometimes being petted in places that never were sensitive before. And he fell off his perch twice, the last time being this morning. He moves the way I moved the time I had a back spasm.

I talked to the vet, and I'm going to take him in next week. There has to be something we can do. I want to be prepared to ask the right questions. Does anybody have experience or advice with avian kyphosis?

I found many articles describing the use of DMSO for pain and inflammation in humans, horses, and small animals, including using it to carry medication into an eagle's injured foot. It's interesting to me because I worry about having to give Gus daily pills or drops. But if some medicine could be applied to the skin right over the back, it could absorb in without getting on the feathers where he might preen it off. Even without added medication, DMSO has analgesic and anti inflammatory properties. Anyone ever used this on their bird?

I also read an article this week about a topical treatment for humans on a reputable site that allegedly gave people relief from long term back pain that hadn't responded to any other treatment and I'll print that out and bring it.

I hesitate to give pain meds, because I know humans just build up a tolerance to them and so it doesn't seem like a good long term solution.

I used to take Celebrex which helped a lot with a bad joint, and tried Motrin which did absolutely nothing to help the pain. Have a couple of friends who had the same experience. Who gives their bird either of these or another drug? Did it help? Long term or did it lose effectiveness after a while?

I also just read an article about an Amazon who became lame, and turned out to have a fractured leg from a fall to a concrete floor, so it's possible Gus hurt something on one of the recent falls. Maybe he will need some X-rays to rule that out.

If you have any ideas or suggestions, anything at all, please share, there has to be a better life fo Gus than what he seems to have.

 

[SailBoat]

The X-ray and CAV hands and eyes on is truly the best starting point. Not sure when Gus last had a blood test, but that may also be telling as to his chem levels.

Sadly, they cannot just tell us what is wrong. So, your observations, plus what the CAV finds is our best starting point. Yes, even with all the concerns regard the prep for an X-ray. As he ages, you could likely be faces with the reality of a yearly X-ray.

Medications and the discussions regarding their use and success with Avians is a heart felt discussion with your CAV. As you are well aware, they all have problems and there is a natural build-up of resistance with time, i.e. as ever more is needed.

I recall one of our EU members talked about muscle and bone massage. As she had a MAC that had like spinal problems. I would recommend researching that area, targeting the muscle side, since muscles can and do move bones.

Hugs and prays for Gus and the both of you!

 

[wrench13]

I admire you for your efforts and concern for Gus. Our CAV, Dr Hoefer , is great, if you want I can reach out to her , maybe a phone consultation after you visit your local CAV, just to bounce the treatment and prognosis off her? I feel sobad for Gus, anything Geri and I can do to help,just say the word.

 

[Sunnybirb]

As a person who has severe spinal damage, I can say that pain killers generally don't help. Most doctors don't seem to understand that, and many people are quick to go to the heavy painkillers and use them to get out of their body because the pain can be very hard to live with. The reason regular pain meds might not be effective is that the pain is very likely nerve pain, which won't respond to normal drugs. The only thing that has helped me is gabapentin, which has been used in treating animals as well. Something like that might be a good option, as I imagine years of living with a curved spine have probably take their toll on poor Gus. It puts a lot of pressure on the nerves and disks, and like Gus, I also have trouble with my legs and feet and will fall if I'm not careful. It might be something similar going on for him, so when he's perching for a little bit, his legs/feet might get a little numb and then suddenly he'll fall off. I'm not sure how similar parrots are to people as far as spines go, but hopefully it gives a little insight.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I admire you for your efforts and concern for Gus. Our CAV, Dr Hoefer , is great, if you want I can reach out to her , maybe a phone consultation after you visit your local CAV, just to bounce the treatment and prognosis off her? I feel sobad for Gus, anything Geri and I can do to help,just say the word.

Yes, would you PM me her info? Some vets are willing to do that as long as the bird is under the care of a local vet. I'll mention this to Dr. Vaughn, that I want to cast a wide net since this is such an unusual case.

 

[Kentuckienne]

As a person who has severe spinal damage, I can say that pain killers generally don't help. Most doctors don't seem to understand that, and many people are quick to go to the heavy painkillers and use them to get out of their body because the pain can be very hard to live with. The reason regular pain meds might not be effective is that the pain is very likely nerve pain, which won't respond to normal drugs. The only thing that has helped me is gabapentin, which has been used in treating animals as well. Something like that might be a good option, as I imagine years of living with a curved spine have probably take their toll on poor Gus. It puts a lot of pressure on the nerves and disks, and like Gus, I also have trouble with my legs and feet and will fall if I'm not careful. It might be something similar going on for him, so when he's perching for a little bit, his legs/feet might get a little numb and then suddenly he'll fall off. I'm not sure how similar parrots are to people as far as spines go, but hopefully it gives a little insight.

Thank you for this. I took gabapentin (aka Neurontin and I call it Morontin because it turned me into a moron until I got used to it) when the Celebrex wasn't working any more, and it sort of helped but not much. Might have been better to stay on the Celebrex. I had a hip that had surgery already but it was doing fine until I helped move a 400 pound glue-lam beam out of the basement. I agree, the painkillers are not a long time solution. I'll look for the FB article I found about the topical treatment, it sounded good.

 

[Anansi]

Hi, Kentuckienne. I'm so sorry Gus is going through this. You've been a wonderful parront throughout and he's lucky to have you.

Gabapentin was very helpful for Maya when she was having nerve pain/tingling in her feet. And with her, I didn't see any of the potential side-effects. Granted, though, her usage was relatively short term at a month or two, whereas Gus would be looking for something more long term.

And while I've never had to use Celebrex for my birds, I have heard it can be hard on the kidneys. So I reckon your CAV would have to determine whether the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

Sending you hugs and best wishes. You and Gus will be in my prayers.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Kentuckienne]

Hi, Kentuckienne. I'm so sorry Gus is going through this. You've been a wonderful parront throughout and he's lucky to have you.

Gabapentin was very helpful for Maya when she was having nerve pain/tingling in her feet. And with her, I didn't see any of the potential side-effects. Granted, though, her usage was relatively short term at a month or two, whereas Gus would be looking for something more long term.

And while I've never had to use Celebrex for my birds, I have heard it can be hard on the kidneys. So I reckon your CAV would have to determine whether the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks.

Sending you hugs and best wishes. You and Gus will be in my prayers.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thanks, Spider God. How did you give Maya the gabapentin? I'm a little worried about doing oral meds, long term.

I've been looking into DMSO. Very pure grade, diluted with about 10% water, seems to be an effective pain killer. It penetrates the skin deeply, and carrying anything dissolved in it into the tissue. Which can be good or bad if it's some kind of evil chemical, lotion, perfume, etc. And it can be toxic in high doses. It's used a lot for horses, but I also found some references for avian use. Since Gus's spine is bent so close to the surface - the bones just about poke through the skin - I am hoping that a drop or two of some nontoxic liquid, right at the site, might numb the area effectively. Or maybe there is some other topical stuff, I've read capsaicin and reservetrol and lidocaine - which would remain near the surface and not get into his system so it would cause less risk to his organs. As long as it is something that would soak in, dry up, and not coat the feathers where he might preen it off an ingest it. That would be so much easier than giving him oral meds or shots. He needs a long term solution, something he can have for the rest of his life. The vet is on board with finding something - so whatever we have to do with tests, Xrays, maybe laser treatment, we will find some way to make it better, at least.

Thanks for the wish, we need all the luck we can get.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Update! Gus behaved well, for a macaw. He ran up onto my shoulder and the next time I saw him he was dangling by his beak - which was attached to Dr. Vaughn’s finge! The doc didn’t even let out a peep. After a close examination and consult we have a plan. We will begin with a topical treatment that contains diclofenac, lidocaine, prilocaine, clonadine and gabapentin. I read about this treatment online, and some people swear it’s nearly miraculous for intractable back pain, so when he suggested it I was pleased. We just have to figure out how to smear it on just the kyphosis area of the spine. We’ll give it a chance to work. The next options include DMSO, meloxicam, and hyaluronic acid but I’m hoping this topical treatment will be shiznet.