Parrot care - US vs Europe

[Ira7]

1) You know what’s good for your bird and what’s not. You can give human food very sparingly, once or twice a week maybe, but the same rules apply:

Chicken wings, eggs, pasta...but no salt, onions, garlic, tomato-based sauces, etc.

2) As long as the bird isn’t left alone for unreasonable periods of time (more than 8 hours), zero advantage to having more than one bird, and more often than not, an additional bird creates problems.

3) Birds need out of cage time...interaction with you...so I basically think it’s ridiculous to not clip them. A clipped bird gets the same exercise flapping his wings in place as one flying into a mirror, into a pot of boiling water, or out the front door. Every major flying injury is caused by FLYING.

I hope it's not to me but to forum in general. In my opinion any meat is not good for parrots. We're talking about different cultures and opinions not writing what we can do or not. We are from different countries and have different opinions writing what is good or not would start an argue. I know I could be lost in your 1st point here because of being minority but not on Polish sites.

Well, you’re just wrong about chicken wings being bad for parrots.

This is science. It has nothing to do with culture.

How many CAVs are there in Poland, let alone vets who ONLY treat birds? Let alone any near you? As opposed to the U.S., where we have dozens of dedicated professionals in most states who ONLY study birds?

So culture wise, I guess I prefer to follow the advice of our avian experts.

Call me crazy.

 

[chris-md]

That’s not true ira. You can’t point to any scientific literature showing parrots eat chicken bones in the wild, or that it’s otherwise necessary And/or safe in their diet.

This would be one of those “nobody actually knows the truth, and anyone who says they do is a moron, butt everyone’s going to have their opinion based on anecdotal experience which is perfectly valid”.

You can’t debate protein. Many birds at least dabble in insectivory. Parker recently snagged an insect outside when we were out on the deck. So the rare bite of meat is fine. Whether they should be eating chicken bones...civilized people could debate until their blue in the face and never have the correct answer.

 

[Terry57]

1) You know what’s good for your bird and what’s not. You can give human food very sparingly, once or twice a week maybe, but the same rules apply:

Chicken wings, eggs, pasta...but no salt, onions, garlic, tomato-based sauces, etc.

2) As long as the bird isn’t left alone for unreasonable periods of time (more than 8 hours), zero advantage to having more than one bird, and more often than not, an additional bird creates problems.

3) Birds need out of cage time...interaction with you...so I basically think it’s ridiculous to not clip them. A clipped bird gets the same exercise flapping his wings in place as one flying into a mirror, into a pot of boiling water, or out the front door. Every major flying injury is caused by FLYING.

I hope it's not to me but to forum in general. In my opinion any meat is not good for parrots. We're talking about different cultures and opinions not writing what we can do or not. We are from different countries and have different opinions writing what is good or not would start an argue. I know I could be lost in your 1st point here because of being minority but not on Polish sites.

Well, you’re just wrong about chicken wings being bad for parrots.

This is science. It has nothing to do with culture.

How many CAVs are there in Poland, let alone vets who ONLY treat birds? Let alone any near you? As opposed to the U.S., where we have dozens of dedicated professionals in most states who ONLY study birds?

So culture wise, I guess I prefer to follow the advice of our avian experts.

Call me crazy.

I am speaking as a member and not a Mod here...Considering the fact that US Avian vets cannot agree on whether feeding chicken is healthy, this is a flawed argument to pretend that all Avian professionals in the US agree on this, and that those who do should be listened to simply because they are from the US. This is a decision people need to make for themselves after doing their research. Culture wise? I personally will read everything I can find about a subject no matter where that comes from.

 

[noodles123]

Completely empathise with you there. Cultural differences have been brought up various members, especially by those of us who don’t live in US or even Western countries.

Tbh, the way I’ve come to terms with it is that I just accept that the forum is majority American. If I want to have a discussion about parrots in an American approach, I post here. If I want to have a discussion about parrots in a local context, I post elsewhere.

At most, when someone from my country posts, I might step in to try to help forum members from both sides negotiate cultural differences.

I suppose the way I feel about it is that every group has rules. While this forum has written rules, this group dynamic also has unwritten rules (any group naturally does). When on this forum, I follow those unspoken rules or at least tread very carefully and expect to get shot down a little. I censor myself the same way in my local groups. E.g., I can’t advocate for harnesses in my local groups, but I can here. I suppose you might call it code-switching

Having grown up American (my father’s culture) and having assimilated into my mother’s culture, I can say that American do come off as very aggressive to me now, even the nicest of Americans ahahaha It’s always a culture shock when I meet another American; I have to consciously code-switch to realise I shouldn’t be offended by how aggressive they sound and that a decade ago I wouldn’t have found that person aggressive at all (we probably would have had a lovely conversation)!
I do feel that is a significant factor in terms of accommodating another person’s cultural differences.

I get what you mean, and different regions of the world do tend to demonstrate general "quirks"/cliches when it comes to communication/cultural norms etc (500%).

I do want to add that one person's American experience can be very different from another's (in terms of how they speak, their mannerisms, language, culture,religion, values, norms, upbringing etc etc).

There are places in America where people in communities follow the traditions/cultures and speak the languages more commonly associated with "international" locations-- Many of these people are still American though, through birth or citizenship.I know many Americans who were born here and lived here all their lives who don't speak much English because they didn't use it in their communities growing up...

 

[Ira7]

That’s not true ira. You can’t point to any scientific literature showing parrots eat chicken bones in the wild, or that it’s otherwise necessary And/or safe in their diet.

This would be one of those “nobody actually knows the truth, and anyone who says they do is a moron, butt everyone’s going to have their opinion based on anecdotal experience which is perfectly valid”.

You can’t debate protein. Many birds at least dabble in insectivory. Parker recently snagged an insect outside when we were out on the deck. So the rare bite of meat is fine. Whether they should be eating chicken bones...civilized people could debate until their blue in the face and never have the correct answer.

There is zero doubt...tons of evidence...that many species in the wild eat meat when they come across it. But that’s not even the point, because their life expectancies are certainly lower than domesticated.

But to say that CAVs don’t agree on the benefits and harm of it, don’t agree.

We’re talking in moderation here, especially combined with a healthy diet otherwise.

 

[Ira7]

Completely empathise with you there. Cultural differences have been brought up various members, especially by those of us who don’t live in US or even Western countries.

Tbh, the way I’ve come to terms with it is that I just accept that the forum is majority American. If I want to have a discussion about parrots in an American approach, I post here. If I want to have a discussion about parrots in a local context, I post elsewhere.

At most, when someone from my country posts, I might step in to try to help forum members from both sides negotiate cultural differences.

I suppose the way I feel about it is that every group has rules. While this forum has written rules, this group dynamic also has unwritten rules (any group naturally does). When on this forum, I follow those unspoken rules or at least tread very carefully and expect to get shot down a little. I censor myself the same way in my local groups. E.g., I can’t advocate for harnesses in my local groups, but I can here. I suppose you might call it code-switching

Having grown up American (my father’s culture) and having assimilated into my mother’s culture, I can say that American do come off as very aggressive to me now, even the nicest of Americans ahahaha It’s always a culture shock when I meet another American; I have to consciously code-switch to realise I shouldn’t be offended by how aggressive they sound and that a decade ago I wouldn’t have found that person aggressive at all (we probably would have had a lovely conversation)!
I do feel that is a significant factor in terms of accommodating another person’s cultural differences.

I get what you mean, and different regions of the world do tend to demonstrate general "quirks"/cliches when it comes to communication/cultural norms etc (500%).

I do want to add that one person's American experience can be very different from another's (in terms of how they speak, their mannerisms, language, culture,religion, values, norms, upbringing etc etc).

There are places in America where nothing is written in English- not even the street signs- where you do not speak to others in English on the street, nor do you ever hear it being spoken ...Many of the people in these areas are Americans too...living in communities that follow the traditions and languages more commonly associated with "international" locations-- These people are still American though.

Where in the U.S. can you go where people don’t speak English?

I find this point fascinating, as someone who lives right above Miami and it’s certainly not true here at ALL.

 

[noodles123]

Completely empathise with you there. Cultural differences have been brought up various members, especially by those of us who don’t live in US or even Western countries.

Tbh, the way I’ve come to terms with it is that I just accept that the forum is majority American. If I want to have a discussion about parrots in an American approach, I post here. If I want to have a discussion about parrots in a local context, I post elsewhere.

At most, when someone from my country posts, I might step in to try to help forum members from both sides negotiate cultural differences.

I suppose the way I feel about it is that every group has rules. While this forum has written rules, this group dynamic also has unwritten rules (any group naturally does). When on this forum, I follow those unspoken rules or at least tread very carefully and expect to get shot down a little. I censor myself the same way in my local groups. E.g., I can’t advocate for harnesses in my local groups, but I can here. I suppose you might call it code-switching

Having grown up American (my father’s culture) and having assimilated into my mother’s culture, I can say that American do come off as very aggressive to me now, even the nicest of Americans ahahaha It’s always a culture shock when I meet another American; I have to consciously code-switch to realise I shouldn’t be offended by how aggressive they sound and that a decade ago I wouldn’t have found that person aggressive at all (we probably would have had a lovely conversation)!
I do feel that is a significant factor in terms of accommodating another person’s cultural differences.

I get what you mean, and different regions of the world do tend to demonstrate general "quirks"/cliches when it comes to communication/cultural norms etc (500%).

I do want to add that one person's American experience can be very different from another's (in terms of how they speak, their mannerisms, language, culture,religion, values, norms, upbringing etc etc).

There are places in America where nothing is written in English- not even the street signs- where you do not speak to others in English on the street, nor do you ever hear it being spoken ...Many of the people in these areas are Americans too...living in communities that follow the traditions and languages more commonly associated with "international" locations-- These people are still American though.

Where in the U.S. can you go where people don’t speak English?

I find this point fascinating, as someone who lives right above Miami and it’s certainly not true here at ALL.

Ira,

EDIT:
1. I said, "I know many Americans who were born here and lived here all their lives who don't speak much English because they didn't use it in their communities growing up...

To answer your question:
Certain parts of Brooklyn (neighborhoods), for one. Heck, parts of NJ...there are so so many across the US...parts of Oklahoma, certain areas of TX, CA, FL AZ, Mississippi...all over the place if you know where they are within those areas (they are communities or neighborhoods of people who speak a language other than English at home, in the community etc).
Have you never been to a place like that? I am not saying that you couldn't find ANYONE in these areas who speaks English, but it's not the norm and many people don't speak it.

EDIT: Here is a more official list of the actual "communities" instead of neighborhoods...this doesn't include EVERY area where this is the case, just some of the main ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...h_is_not_the_majority_language_spoken_at_home
I am just citing the list above because when you have a lot of people in an area speaking the same language at home, they tend to also use that language in the community, at work etc.

I'm also not saying that just because someone speaks a different language at home that they don't also speak English perfectly as well. That having been said, you really don't NEED English in certain places and if you pull a random person off the streets, they may or may not know what you are saying if you speak in English, even if they are 100% American. That is fine by me btw--I'm only saying this because you asked and I wanted to explain.


Locke CA used to be a good example of this, although it's population is way lower than it used to be and now that it is a tourist attraction of sorts (due to its history), things have changed.

**** I only mentioned language prevalence within certain areas of the US because language both reflects and shapes many aspects of culture...The prevalence of language-dense pockets within communities often indicates shared tradition/culture in an area (although certainly not always, and not for every individual)...Micro-cultures, if you will....Hence my reason for even discussing it at all.*****

 

[chris-md]

But to say that CAVs don’t agree on the benefits and harm of [feeding chicken bones], don’t agree

You’re entitled to your opinion regardless of what the facts are.

 

[Terry57]

As a Mod, I am going to say that any offensive or judgemental posts towards any country or members from that country will be removed.We all love birds, and offensive comments directed towards members or where they are from will not be allowed. Choose your words carefully.

 

[Ira7]

As a Mod, I am going to say that any offensive or judgemental posts towards any country or members from that country will be removed.We all love birds, and offensive comments directed towards members or where they are from will not be allowed. Choose your words carefully.

Which words posted above have you deemed to be getting close to offensive?

 

[Ira7]

I get what you mean, and different regions of the world do tend to demonstrate general "quirks"/cliches when it comes to communication/cultural norms etc (500%).

I do want to add that one person's American experience can be very different from another's (in terms of how they speak, their mannerisms, language, culture,religion, values, norms, upbringing etc etc).

There are places in America where nothing is written in English- not even the street signs- where you do not speak to others in English on the street, nor do you ever hear it being spoken ...Many of the people in these areas are Americans too...living in communities that follow the traditions and languages more commonly associated with "international" locations-- These people are still American though.

Where in the U.S. can you go where people don’t speak English?

I find this point fascinating, as someone who lives right above Miami and it’s certainly not true here at ALL.

Certain parts of Brooklyn (neighborhoods), for one. Heck, parts of NJ...there are so so many across the US...parts of Oklahoma, certain areas of TX, CA, FL AZ, Mississippi...all over the place if you know where they are within those areas (they are communities or neighborhoods of people who speak a language other than English at home, in the community etc).
Have you never been to a place like that?


EDIT: Here is a more official list of the actual "communities" instead of neighborhoods...this doesn't include EVERY area where this is the case, just some of the main ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...h_is_not_the_majority_language_spoken_at_home

Locke CA used to be a good example of this, although it's population is way lower than it used to be and now that it is a tourist attraction of sorts (due to its history), things have changed.

Doesn’t exist.

A neighborhood having a preferred language doesn’t mean English isn’t also spoken.

Wow. That’s very insulting to these communities.

 

[noodles123]

Where in the U.S. can you go where people don’t speak English?

I find this point fascinating, as someone who lives right above Miami and it’s certainly not true here at ALL.

Certain parts of Brooklyn (neighborhoods), for one. Heck, parts of NJ...there are so so many across the US...parts of Oklahoma, certain areas of TX, CA, FL AZ, Mississippi...all over the place if you know where they are within those areas (they are communities or neighborhoods of people who speak a language other than English at home, in the community etc).
Have you never been to a place like that?


EDIT: Here is a more official list of the actual "communities" instead of neighborhoods...this doesn't include EVERY area where this is the case, just some of the main ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...h_is_not_the_majority_language_spoken_at_home

Locke CA used to be a good example of this, although it's population is way lower than it used to be and now that it is a tourist attraction of sorts (due to its history), things have changed.

Doesn’t exist.

A neighborhood having a preferred language doesn’t mean English isn’t also spoken.

Wow. That’s very insulting to these communities.

Again, I only mentioned language prevalence within certain areas of the US because language both reflects and shapes many aspects of culture...The prevalence of language-dense pockets within communities often indicates shared tradition/culture in an area (although certainly not always, and not for every individual)...Micro-cultures, if you will....Hence my reason for even discussing it at all.

No issues with the thread itself or anything like that...I enjoyed reading it


Ira,

I absolutely agree that there are preferred languages (other than English) in certain areas and that hearing someone speak a language other than English is BY NO MEANS indicative that the speaker isn't also a fluent English-speaker.

I never said that no one could speak Engish in these areas. I said that in certain communities, it was uncommon for people to use it and and that some don't speak much . I also said that there were some neighborhoods/communities in which many people did not speak English. These are facts. Note: "many" does not mean all, and "much" does not mean none.

There are self-reported stats on this very thing, published by the government.
Would you be offended if I said you didn't speak Farsi, or Madarin, or Hungal??? Probably only if you do speak one of those languages, and in that case, I wouldn't say it.

When I say "speak", I mean someone who is mostly fluent or fluent. Maybe I should have been more clear on how I define that term.

There was nothing political or offensive about what I said.
My sister is a translator and I have worked in ESL/TESOL ...I can assure you, there is a demand, and that's okay! Languages are languages...No one is born speaking them all.

Here is data from the 2011 census (page 3, reported by families to the government) https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2013/acs/acs-22/acs-22.pdf
I know it's 2020...that's not the point.

Also, Ira, by saying my statement is offensive, you seem to be assuming a lot about my cultural/ethnic/linguistic background.

 

[Laurasea]

It’s very hard to lump a group of people together and give them a label, or characteristics no mater where in the world they are from, we are all different and all the same. We all need food, a place to call home, friends and family , but our ideas of what to eat , what to call home, who is friend , what the idea of family is individual. Even in members of a family sharing the same DNA and living in the same geographical area.

I celebrate , am fascinated, and try and learn from the difference/ sameness , disagree or agree with

To say “ Americans are Aggressive “ .... in the very least “ aggressive “ is an unpleasant term....

If I hear a parrot is aggressive, I think is it mean? Is it violent ??

 

[LaManuka]

Again, this thread was started as a sincere effort to understand the differences between bird-keeping practices that exist in various parts of the world, and to have a respectful debate about these matters. It was never intended to become a battleground over cultural issues and perceived slights or offence but it is in danger of becoming so. The Mod team would ask all contributors to please bear this in mind when responding.

 

[Terry57]

As a Mod, I am going to say that any offensive or judgemental posts towards any country or members from that country will be removed.We all love birds, and offensive comments directed towards members or where they are from will not be allowed. Choose your words carefully.

Which words posted above have you deemed to be getting close to offensive?

Did I say that any words posted previously were close to offensive?
Perhaps you should read my post again.

 

[saxguy64]

I started watching this thread with enthusiasm, because it was by design, a great idea to point out that different cultures can see things in a different light, based on societal norms wherever they happen to be. This COULD have been a great discussion, with acceptance of this fact. Unfortunately, it has devolved into little more than an argument over who is "right" about a handful of specifics. For that reason, as a member, I kept my thoughts to myself.

As a mod however, I respectfully ask that we reign in the discussion and stick to the original point. We are an amazing INTERNATIONAL community, dare I say, family, of accepting, bird loving people. I for one have learned a lot from members with differing ideas, and different cultures. I love that we have the opportunity to do so here. We don't bash other members because one chooses a conure over an amazon, or whatever species. Why then do folks suddenly feel the need to do so over accepted, well regarded ideas from other parts of the world? Remember, the whole point here was simply to remind people that elsewhere in the world, there are different ways of thinking and doing things, and be considerate of that when talking to others. That's all!

 

[Terry57]

Stereotypes aren’t ever a good idea.

I would prefer you PM me directly regarding your concerns about my words, but if you are accusing me publicly of stereotyping, I suggest you check out this link: https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-to-argue-across-cultures

If someone wants to reply to a post, they should feel free to reply to the actual post rather than in a PM.

 

[Betrisher]

Coming in late on this thread, but wow! Just, WOW!

I think so very many cultural and current issues are being demonstrated here. Firstly, there's COVID. Please don't tell me the atmosphere surrounding the virus isn't affecting the way people are thinking and feeling. Everyone's jug is full, everyone's wick is smouldering. I'm seeing arguments all over the world that would never have blown up so fiercely if not for lockdown blues. I think this is a good example.

Secondly, I think Rozalka's observance of the cultural divide is very accurate and well-considered. One poster commented 'To me personally, however, its important to remember that just because its cultural doesn't make it correct. Facts are facts.'

I think it's important to remember that 'facts' in the US may not equate to 'facts' in Asia or Australia or central Europe.

It seems to me that some folk treat their birds like family members (almost like surrogate children), giving them the best of medical care and the most absolutely perfect scientifically formulated diet available, sparing no effort to afford the same level of care they would their families. Others simply acquire an animal and treat it respectfully, but without the kind of fellow-feeling one might have for another human being.

Which is correct?

I dunno!

I've been a member here for quite a few years and have been vocal about what I think is shabby treatment of folk from countries other than the US, Canada, UK, Australia etc. I've seen numerous people from India and Pakistan driven away because of the cage they use, the diet they feed and their inability to find a vet (let alone a CAV). I've been virtually told to put a sock in it (that's Australian for 'shut up') because right is right and wrong is wrong and we can't allow people from Asia (or, to be fair, from anywhere) to be doing 'the wrong thing'.

Who gets to determine what 'the wrong thing' actually is?

I dunno!

I think you can 'know' as much as you like about optimum cage size, optimum diet, optimum veterinary care, but if these things simply aren't available to a member, what's to be gained by insisting he's doing wrong? All that does is drive him away from the group and leaves him to keep the bird in the same awful conditions without any input whatsoever to help him do better.

And then there's the elephant in the bird cage.

We all know perfectly well that parrots should not be kept in cages at all. Owning a cockatoo has taught me once and for all that no bird should be caged, no matter how spacious and well-appointed the cage might be. Birds were created to fly the skies, yet we confine them and cut off their feathers. They were born to fight and squawk and poop and forage and roost and flock together, yet we shut them into veterinarian-approved stainless steel cages and feed them scientifically-designed yuck and subject them to television, foul language, dogs, cats and children (and that's not counting the fumes from teflon, perfume, hairspray and a million other toxins in our homes).

But we know what's right, don't we? The CAVs have told us. Science has shown us. We feel it in our hearts.

I think we could all be a lot more accepting and tolerant than we are. I think it's not kind to assume we know better because we have Science on our side and I think we should all try to pull our heads in a bit (that's Australian for 'don't be quite so outspoken') when it comes to members from other nations.

Thank you for posting, Rozalka!

 

[Scott]

Humans have kept parrots for millennia, yet the science of behavior, diet, and avian medicine is in infancy. Beyond dispute is lethality of heavy metals, toxic fumes, the harm of unclean cages and all-seed diets for many species. Science is a constant, no different in Poland, the U.S, Australia, Tanzania, or Argentina. By amiably and respectfully sharing best practices across the globe, ParrotForums members can help define the science.

 

[Scott]

I know here on the forum are people from different countries, from all continents (except Antarctica of course ). I don't really know if this is an interesting thread but especially in last year I see how much the parrot care is different here on the forum and on Polish groups and wanted to write as a curiosity.
My experience:
First few years (since getting 1st parrots) I wasn't on any forum or fb to contact with other parronts. The 1st place where I created an account was a Polish forum - there are mainly bird breeders and isn't really active. I gained a bit of knowledge there (eg I started bying more healthy food, understod I bought my fids in a wrong place). I would say there people were calm and nobody was inerfering in others opinions.
Next place was this forum. I didn't have any shock (except this one is very active) because I hadn't any chance to know the real Polish culture of parrot caring yet. So I knew the US parrot care culture first.
Next was Facebook. The 1st parrot group which I joined belongs to one of the mentioned Polish forum members. The group was very calm too. Once time another friend (met by the same forum) invited me to a big conure fb group and then I had a schock... In the first moment I was suprised they was sayng green cheek conures are conures (for me this was obvious but in Polish they aren't called conures) but later I saw they thought quaker parrots are conures too (Somewhere was a thread "Are quaker parrots conures" or something like this where I wrote more in details about it).
After few weeks my "forum-mate" started being attacked by other group members for.... having one parrot. And she wasn't the only one there... hopefully I wasn't really active there and avoided this (I have one conure too so also could be...). There also were some other attacks like somebody gives food from a shop because of from a garden... Well, posting a parrot in a cage was enough for the attack because wasn't let out!
We both left this group. Currently I am on few small and medium groups and nowadays I know this what I wrote is very common here


I think these are the biggest differences between these two cultures:
1. Having one parrot
As mentioned aboth - in opinion many Poles (and other Europeans) nobody should have just one parrot - but two, few or none. Some of us let having just one parrot in some cases, others will tell to buy another one...

I've seen about 2 times when somebody from Europe asked you here if this is true - can be just one parrot? I remember somebody wrote that this is common in Europe. Yes, this is so common - yesterday somebody told me to go for 25 years to the prison for thinking some parrots may be kept alone! Really! And it was on this forum which I thought is very calm...
Ps. I forgot to explain why they forbid having one parrot - because they are social and live in flocks in the wild

2. Mixing species
In opinion many Europeans: different species have different languages and they never are friends as seem to be. If somebody has one parrot of type A and one of type B they both are alone - here again is the point 1.
Exception are close realeted species eg green cheek and black capped conures or B&G and scarled macaws because their languages are simillar. But in these cases can't be bred. Here hybrids aren't tolorated in general.
if somebody has two parrots of type A and 2 of B and they tolorate each other this is ok here. I think the rules of aviary breeding are the same like in US.
3. Parrot tents
From what I read here you have to reasons why they are bad: some of them are so deadly and all of them may increase hormonal problems. The first reason also is here in Europe - to avoid famous happy huts. But... some Europeans say caiques, conures and some lorikeets must have a place for sleep. So here are done parrot tents from the safe material or given nest box even alone parrots.
But as mentioned this increases hormonal problems. I was talking with an expert who said that each parrot may have them. Yes, I agree but I mentioned about increasing not having... For these people it's not a reason why to not have. But why mentioned parrot types must have? Because they sleep in tree holes in the wild... The expert said only then they feel safe...
4. Wing clipping
I've seen many of you see pros and cons. Here most people see only cons.
5. Human food
Many people in Europe never give them. Some of them let parrots taking during letting out but others will not let them at all. Meat also isn't given at all.


This what I wrote is about Europeans which have a contact with other parronts. About 80% of all Polish parronts keep their fids in small cages, not letting out, without natural perches etc. But they aren't in contact with other parronts. They don't know about these points aboth what I mentioned.


Also, it's not like "all Europeans are like thsese". I know some tolorate wing clipping, having one parrot but often they are attacked by others (like me yesterday). Also I don't mean I am more by one side - eg I have one conure but I am against wing clipping. In some points I am divided between "US" and "Europe" opinion. But one thing I will never understand - why to attack others for different opinions? Ok, maybe sometimes I am angry when I see clipped wings... but I never said to go to the prison for it... lol
Finally: what if I show or mention this forum to Polish people?
Mentioned Polish expert: "It's just a forum"
Another person: "American forums aren't good sources - they feed their parrots fast foods!"


I hope nobody feels injured

Thank you Rozalka for creating a superb topic so worthy of reasoned discussion!