I need your opinion, that's all

[NicoleN]

Alright, I have a question on my homework that I can't quite figure out. It's true/false, this is what it is:

"An ideal type indicates the characteristics that the phenomena under study should strive to attain"

The definition of an ideal type is: A conceptual model composed of the essential characteristics of social phenomena.

This is the passage from the book:
Weber himself did considerable research on bureaucracy. Having observed numerous actual bureaucracies, Weber detailed those qualities essential to bureaucracies in general. Weber did not merely list those charcteristics common to al the actual bureacracies he observed. Rather, to create a theoretical model of the "perfect" (ideal type) bureaucracy, he needed to understand fully the essentials of bureaucratic operation.

Do you think it's True or False?

I'm thinking it may be true, b/c when he did the research, he listed the characteristics of them, from his own personal observations. Therefore, didn't he decide what characteristics the bureaucracies would "strive to attain"?

Let me know!

 

[darkchi]

 

[birdcrazy]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........................

 

[karen]

MMMM well I dont think it would be a true study if the subjects were "striving" to be anything other than what they are.
And then I think the observer is only privvy to an over view of any given study and misses out on experiencing "being" in that moment with the diverse reasons and actions that lead to individual idiocincracies, (please excuse spelling) Reading that definition it appears to me to apply only to the skeletal frame work of any phenomena and does not go into exploring the subtle differences of age sex culture and on and on.
So to me essential = basic while striving = complexity soo reading back I suppose my opinion would be false...
Dont really matter I am 47 Scottish female so will obviously see things in a different way to the young and educated among us:33:
Any hoo I really enjouyed reading and thinking thankyou

 

[Peta]

Say What, Think you need Tex here, I think he said somewhere he was training to be a teacher?????????

I say Hey I'm blonde and proud of it.

 

[meghanxx4]

ummmmmmm im confused.

 

[TexDot33]

Alright, I have a question on my homework that I can't quite figure out. It's true/false, this is what it is:

"An ideal type indicates the characteristics that the phenomena under study should strive to attain" ... The definition of an ideal type is: A conceptual model composed of the essential characteristics of social phenomena.

This is the passage from the book:
Weber himself did considerable research on bureaucracy. Having observed numerous actual bureaucracies, Weber detailed those qualities essential to bureaucracies in general. Weber did not merely list those charcteristics common to al the actual bureacracies he observed. Rather, to create a theoretical model of the "perfect" (ideal type) bureaucracy, he needed to understand fully the essentials of bureaucratic operation.

Do you think it's True or False?

I'm thinking it may be true, b/c when he did the research, he listed the characteristics of them, from his own personal observations. Therefore, didn't he decide what characteristics the bureaucracies would "strive to attain"? ... Let me know!

Ok, I might be on the wrong track here, but I have thought about this ... and I would argue FALSE, there is a difference between "ideal" and what one should strive to attain. Shouldn't the "phenomena under study" strive to obtain characteristics that would prolong the longevity of the phenomena itself? My arguement is going to be totally scientific here, but you can adapt the logic to what ever you want to:

Our birds have characteristics that make us want to domesticate them. They have colors, personalities and vocal abilities that attract us to them. IDEALLY birds (or nature) would develope these characteristics that would prolong the species as a domestic animal, and prolong the species of birds as a whole. However, this is not an ideal situation for the birds themselves, as we all know that under regular situations a home is not an ideal place for birds. So, should birds/"mother nature" strive to attain characteristics that would allow birds to become more domesticated (like dogs and cats have over the centuries) and prolong the species in a world of disappearing habitats or should the birds continue to not adapt which could lead to the eradication of certain birds? OR could there be a nice equalibrum between developing an ideal and developing characteristics that prolong the longevity of the "phenomena of study"

Just a thought ...

~ "Professor Tex"

 

[TexDot33]

ummm ... OW, that hurt! It's been awhile since I have thought like that ... :31:

 

[meghanxx4]

wow those non-english statements make me NOT want to goto college/university... i think ill fail a few classes so i dont have t go lol.. jk if i fail a class then i cant get my birdy id rather suffer going through that non-english type stuff and get a birdy than not suffer and not get a birdy.

 

[TexDot33]

wow those non-english statements make me NOT want to goto college/university... i think ill fail a few classes so i dont have t go lol.. jk if i fail a class then i cant get my birdy id rather suffer going through that non-english type stuff and get a birdy than not suffer and not get a birdy.

*LOL* Meghan, it's not as bad as it looks, I promise! That's the great thing about english, you can say a whole lot without saying anything at all ... If you read that statement, I didn't really answer the question that Nicole actually asked. Rather, I meerly posed another quesion. It's called rhetoric, the art of persuasion through spoken (or in this case written) language ... also known to you young people as "BULL$#!t" master it, and you can go far! But, you have to master it!

~ "The professor" :22:

 

[Peta]

Right hang on a minute, I got my daughter to look at this and this is what she said.

*Peta passes keyboard over to Jemma, and leaves the room in total confusion*

Ok, looking back over this, I'm slightly half and half. At first glance, I thought True, because he looked at various bureaucracies and took note about characteristics from each one to form his opinion on the 'ideal' bureacracy. But, what 'Karen' and 'TexDot33' have said make sense, that there is a difference between 'ideal' and what one should/feels like they should, strive to achieve.

From my own personal beliefs, the words 'strive to attain' and 'ideal' sort of cancel each other out, if that make sense 06 If someone/something is 'striving to achieve' something, than really it cannot be the 'ideal'. The 'ideal' would be the final project, the finished product not the, road, there. 06 So, after procrastinating and managing to confuse myself in the process, I'd say False, but true also makes some sense.

:38: *Peta back* Where the heck does she get words like procrastinating from, certainly not her mother!!!

 

[TexDot33]

... Ok, looking back over this, I'm slightly half and half. At first glance, I thought True, because he looked at various bureaucracies and took note about characteristics from each one to form his opinion on the 'ideal' bureacracy. But, what 'Karen' and 'TexDot33' have said make sense, that there is a difference between 'ideal' and what one should/feels like they should, strive to achieve.

From my own personal beliefs, the words 'strive to attain' and 'ideal' sort of cancel each other out, if that make sense 06 If someone/something is 'striving to achieve' something, than really it cannot be the 'ideal'. The 'ideal' would be the final project, the finished product not the, road, there. 06 So, after procrastinating and managing to confuse myself in the process, I'd say False, but true also makes some sense...

That's a very bright young lady you have there Peta ... I think that her idea that you can't strive to obtain an ideal makes perfect sense ... so yeah, I am going to say that I would still argue for the false side, but a decent case could be made for a truthful argument ....

Nicole, this looks like a WIN-WIN as long as you can aruge with facts and textual quotes on this one! Good luck!

 

[karen]

Perhaps she sucked ur brains out with a straw while u slept Peta.

 

[Peta]

Perhaps she sucked ur brains out with a straw while u slept Peta.

Hey that must be it,

Tex I would agree with ya, if she wasn't sitting in the next room watching. That would only make her think that shes smarter than me and I couldn't possibly have that could I. NEVER LET A TEENAGER WIN ANYTHING

 

[TexDot33]

... NEVER LET A TEENAGER WIN ANYTHING

HA! Yeah, my mom followed that same idea with me ... ... but with my sister, however, she never won ... and she admitts that ... my sis the brain!

 

[NicoleN]

My Professor wants us to be "independent learners", which is fine and all...but I'd much rather look at a book and see the answer right there in front of me in the sentence. haha. Besides, she really likes to confuse everyone with her terminology.

Meghann, it's really not as bad as it looks. Besides, this isn't an undergraduate course, it's a master's class, so it's going to be a bit harder. But Tex is definitely right, all the papers and stuff that I have been done have been total BS. Brilliant BS, but BS all the same.

Actually the toughest thing I've had to deal with so far is writing a Research Proposal for this class. It only has to be 6-7 paragraphs long, but every single sentence has to be loaded with scientific information, and citations abound. I swear my works cited page is longer than my actual proposal! Ugh...

Well this is due on Thursday, so I guess I'll have the "correct" answer the following week!

Thanks!