Giant leap - backward.

[mh434]

Sammy continues to get more and more loveable...playing lots, enjoying his toys, and spending tons of time on dad's shoulder making cooing sounds & generally being closer than sweat. I'm loving it!

 

[miloslave]

Re: ****UPDATE in POST #10!!!*****Giant leap - backward.

I am so happy for you! That is truly great news.

Give kisses from all of us!

 

[Freespin]

I'm so happy to read he is coming around! Birds can be such hard work! Barry used to get angry with me if I went away. When I came back he would throw any food I gave him (he was usually such a fatty) and scream at me in his little Barry way which was actually kind of funny... but the biggest telling off he gave me was when I got Nelson my baby eckie!! For the first time in his little Barry life he actually bit me and meant it!

 

[Amanda_Bennett]

I'm glad you're getting your feathered ear muff back!

That's awesome!

 

[mh434]

Reviving my old thread here. Once again, we went to Mexico (only for a week this time), and this time, we left Sammy in his own home, with his own flock, and a very bird-savvy sitter.

Once again, he has turned violent & unapproachable. After two weeks, it appeared he was finally consenting to get near me but, at the last second, lunged & got my finger. Removed a large chunk of meat (about 1/2 of the last section of my index finger), right to the bone, and kept ripping at it, trying to pull it off. Blood all over him, me, the carpet, and the rest of the house.
Again, no one can get within 6 feet of his cage without him flying into a rage. If we let him out, he even flies at us & attacks us.

Has anyone else had this problem???

 

[ceegull]

That is no joke real sorry to hear, I don't have this problem, I am just following this thread. But this has been THE educational thread for me in one of the what not to do to an amazon. Hope the retraining or something works. If all is lost (and I hope it has not come to that) I would try birdmans way and just show that we are not going to take that. I suggest talking to birdman666.

 

[Kiwibird]

OUCH! I feel your pain getting bit to the bone/flesh removed Amazons do tend to hold a grudge, some worse than others. Sounds like Sammy holds a SERIOUS grudge when left. Kiwi is always 'surly' and you can generally expect him to try and nail you at some point as 'payback' after we go out of town, but he usually gets over it in a couple days. Feel so bad for you having to deal with it for a few weeks!

Honestly, if Sammy is a DNA male, I think your dealing with a double whammy here- you left him (you terrible person you) AND it's getting to be 'that time of year' again where hormones are raging. How old is Sammy? What your describing sounds very much like Kiwi's behavior when he was newly adopted- unpredictable and out for blood. Personally, if behavior doesn't improve soon, I would consider a light clip (which can be an instant attitude adjustment for zons launching arial attack and is safer for everyone involved) and some remedial training exercises (stepping up to a stick or gloved hand, targeting, even some non-contact trust building if he's regressed back really far). Kiwi can get pissy at times, but he's not ever regressed back to being essentially feral. However, at the slightest 'indiscretion' and sign of aggression, I have always found allowing him to calm down followed by remedial training exercises, with the stick if need be, to be a highly effective way to reestablish trust and the 'flock hierarchy' (i.e. he needs to listen to and respect me). Kiwi has always been clipped, but when a bird is attacking by flying at you, it is unsafe for everyone within flying distance of the bird as well as the bird itself (it's only natural/instinctual to try and swat the thing attacking your face/head/neck off). If it continues, clipping may be something to strongly consider until trust and good bird behavior is rebuilt. Best of luck and hope you don't get any more bites and are able to get Sammy back to being the sweet bird you know he is deep down

 

[mh434]

It's a double-whammy, having also lost our beloved dog while we were away (posted under "bereavement" - Echo), and Sammy has turned into a monster.

To be honest, I expected him to have a bit of a grudge - he's always showed he could do that, for several days - but now we're going into week 3 with no sign of improvement. We tried getting him to step up onto a stick, but he runs up the stick & nails you before you can even drop it to get away (the stick is 3' long!).

We've had to towel him to get him back inside, as he won't be tempted with treats to do this. He's destroyed a couple of towels already in this process. Once we get him back in the cage, we've been covering it up, as this seems to calm him down. Of course, after a while, he starts making his lovey-dovey, cutsie-pie lovable bird cooing noises, and we uncover him...whereupon he flies into a rage again, striking at the bars of the cage. I wish I had one of those stainless-steel diver's chain mail jackets & gloves, to at least keep my blood inside me.

We haven't had him sexed (although he does everything male & nothing female). He was very hormonal from August through October, but that seemed to have passed by mid-November. I don't know - maybe he's hormonal again, combined with his grudge-orneriness?

I'll keep you posted. I am concerned, though, as he's never been this bad, or held out this long...

 

[Peppo]

Not sure if it would help or hurt or how you could even do it at this point but do you have any neutral space in your house? Maybe move his cage to a room that he is not familiar with so the territory thing may calm down and you can be that safe familiar person and start some retraining there?

 

[JerseyWendy]

Oh my gosh! I SO remember when this happened last year. I was so happy and relieved when things finally started changing for the better.

I've gotta say, your boy sure holds some deep and long grudges.

I'm mostly sorry he nailed you so very badly! OUCH!!!!

Please do keep us posted. HUGS to you!!!

 

[Kiwibird]

It's a double-whammy, having also lost our beloved dog while we were away (posted under "bereavement" - Echo), and Sammy has turned into a monster.

Is it possible Sammy is upset about/responding to the passing of your dog? He may have never interacted with him closely, but he may have enjoyed watching Echo or in some way found him a 'at a distance' companion. He may "blame" you for his passing or (inches eyes) his 'disappearance' which correlated to him with your trip. Parrots can and do react strongly to shifting dynamics of their 'flock structure' (i.e. people and other animals) in the home.

We tried getting him to step up onto a stick, but he runs up the stick & nails you before you can even drop it to get away (the stick is 3' long!).

It sounds like you need to go back to the beginning, like you just brought him home beginning. Sit as close to his cage as you can and talk to him, eat yummy food and 'share some' through the bars if he approaches nicely... VERY remedial trust building activities. Wait until he will more often than not approach you nicely when in the cage before trying to start step ups again. Wear a thick winter glove or one of these to protect your hand if he runs up the stick (no joke, I had to wear a thick glove for a long time before I could handle Kiwi bare handed since he just wanted to shred my hands).
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NNT2EY?keywords=chainmail%20glove&qid=1450440046&ref_=sr_1_10&sr=8-10"]Stainless Steel Mesh Hand Glove - Cut Resistant (L) - Cut Resistant Safety Gloves - Amazon.com[/ame]
Must step up nicely IN the cage before he can come out of the cage again.

We haven't had him sexed (although he does everything male & nothing female). He was very hormonal from August through October, but that seemed to have passed by mid-November. I don't know - maybe he's hormonal again, combined with his grudge-orneriness?

How old is he? Male "hot 3" amazons (and he does look like a yellow nape?) tend to have a few year period a few years after reaching puberty where they are hormonal pretty much year round and can be perfectly nasty beasties before settling into a mature adult and mellowing out quite a bit (think: teen boys). We did not realize this when we adopted Kiwi, who was smack in the middle of his most aggressive, 24/7 hormonal years A lot of male amazons get rehomed during these years. It DOES get better though with patience and understanding of what they're going through. There is also no shame in wearing a glove or using a stick to protect yourself so you can keep working on a trusting relationship without getting ripped to shreds. Things DO improve.

 

[torrap]

I have to thank you for posting all of this. This is not easy to go through and even more so to post it for everybody to read.
I left my Zons just for 2 days recently and put my hand straight into the cage upon my return without even thinking something like that can happen. I was fine, but it will make me think twice if I ever travel again.
So sorry about your problem with his aggression. Sounds so painful.
Keep the distance and wait till he wants attention, that's the only thing comes to mind.
All the best to you and everyone of yours.

 

[mh434]

As per Kiwibird's advice, I've pretty much started from scratch although, to be honest, when we first brought him home we were far ahead of where we are now, so we've digressed well beyond that point.

While it's possible that he was affected by Echo's disappearance, I doubt it. He never really even acknowledged her existence and she, in turn, patently ignored Sammy. He threatens the dogs (well, now, dog...) when they get closer than he likes, and the dog is smart enough to know it's time to wander away.

What we have noticed is that the first instance of his "grudges" occurred the previous time we went to Mexico...and a few days after we got our CAG "Reno". Sammy's behavior changed at that point, where he simply ceased talking, content to just jibber jabber when the mood took him (Reno is probably the most accomplished talker of any bird I've ever heard of). It's like Sammy decided "Why keep dogs, and bark myself?"

On the other hand, prior to us going away this year, Sammy was happy sitting on me on one end of the couch, while Reno roamed around on the other end with my wife. There may be jealousy there, but I'm extremely careful to not give attention to any of the other birds while Sammy can see it.

As far as we've been able to determine, he's about 12 years old. We were told he was a confirmed male when we rescued him, but I have no documentation to confirm this.

My plan, at this point, is to keep feeding him treats etc. to try to rebuild the trust (as much mine as his!), walk away when he's aggressive, and wait for him to get over his grudge. My hope is that, sooner or later, he'll start longing for his cuddles and scritches again, and decide to be the sociable boy he used to be. His orneriness is kind of adding injury to insult, after losing my little girl, and I have to try to remain patient.

 

[Ginnybird]

This may be a shot in the dark, but since getting home, have you interacted with him in an area of the house where he doesn't usually spend time, completely out of sight of his cage?

I was starting to find that my BFA was getting nippy when I got home from work. When I got home I'd spend time with her in my closed-door office. Her cage is in the room but I only put her there to sleep. During the day she's in her play area in my office with the door closed and tunes playing, so my office is essentially her "cage."

I started taking her completely out of the room to train and play when I got home. I take her to her downstairs playgym, we spend maybe 5 mins training, running through the things she knows at random. Then I give her her chop, and we play for a bit... then she plays on her own. Her chompy behavior has almost completely gone since I started doing this.

Just another thing to try, if you haven't and can do so safely. Good luck from us!

Kay

 

[mh434]

That's a common part of our routine, normally - he rides on my shoulder around the house, I put him on the bed to play, he sits on the chair in my office, etc., and he seems to enjoy it all.

My hope is to get back into that routine, once I can safely pick him up again, at least with a stick. I ordered a chain mail stainless steel glove today...

 

[wrench13]

Arent you glad you didnt give up?

 

[mh434]

Yup - he sure can be trying, though! Still awaiting signs of progress, but I'm not giving up.

 

[mh434]

Update!

Yesterday, I let Sammy out of his cage and, after a couple of hours, I approached (cautiously!), extending my forearm. He looked at me (I felt like an injured mouse, being sized up by a cat), and I swear I could SEE him pondering his options...and then he extended his foot to climb up!

He was a little "hinky", insisted on being right up beside my ear, and I was a little...nervous. I carried him around for a bit, to keep him occupied on sightseeing, and when he started getting a bit twitchy, I put him back on his cage.

Later on in the evening, he ASKED to come up! I collected him, and he settled in for two hours of scritches. I put him back on his cage to poop (he always asks, when it's time), but wouldn't wait for his congratulatory peanut - he had to get right back up on me.

He's BAAAaaack!

It's so good to have my Sammy back again. He really has grudge staying-power, though!

 

[JerseyWendy]

YAY! Welcome back, Sammy!!!

LOVE this update. Insta-smile!

 

[torrap]

Oh WOW, what a great thing to happen right before the holiday!!!!!!!
Sounds like you are going to have it in peace!
So happy to hear that!