Canary people

[crimson]

I'm going to chime in here again, like I mentioned in my first post, he was either deficient in nutrients or beginning a molt.

IMO, and experience, there are many important nutrients, vitamins, etc...they should be taking.
What I have found is that Iodine, and Iron seem to be key to energy. if they are lacking it, they appear off~~ ie: less energy, quiet, almost sleepy.

I use the iodine drops in my birds water, but sometimes I prefer using the pink iodine blocks and scrape it right onto their seed, daily
I also add one drop of (organic)iron drops in their drinking water if I know they are "off"....it seems to boost them up within 24 hours.

I have a canary here that was about 9-10wks old and went totally paralyzed right in front of my eyes. I knew she was lacking iron just from the symptoms as I had come across this with another canary I had a few years back....within 3-4 days she was flying around again and regained all use of her legs. I have it on video but I am unable to load it due to a problem with the file.
she is totally fine now, but still ad a drop of iron in their water once per week.

have you thought of worms?....it might be possible he has them, but I think I read in your post you had a gram stain done, so that would be a mute point.

I'm glad he seems to be better.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

he seems 'better' but not 'well'. I am still concerned for him. we did a gram stain and there was nothing out of the ordinary.
he is still 'over-tired', but not as bad as he was Friday night/Saturday morning. (he would never have napped on his food bowl or water bowl, but he has been doing that, like he is too tired to bother flying back to his favorite spots.) he chirps sometimes and is alert and flies right over when I put some fresh veggies in this bowl (but then eats them and dozes off).
I have taken a photo of him each day and I notice in today's photo, he is way more normal looking, standing more upright instead of sitting low on the perch, but in between, he is constantly napping.
Pepito | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[crimson]

awwww, he's so pretty!

his feathers look good, I would just add more nutrients into his food and see if that helps.
he is lacking something, we just don't know what exactly.

I do know if they lack iodine, if affects their thyroid, which affects their kidneys.

I hope he feels better

 

[ruffledfeathers]

Yup, that is what shocked me to see him "down". In seven years that he has lived with me, he has always looked perfect and been very "spirited" and sings a lot. Scares me a little to see him tired. Hope he keeps improving too!! He is very sweet and cheerful in general.

 

[crimson]

I guess so!
it just might be possible he drank some 'yucky' water, canaries are sooooo messy.

You know I just got a 3 month old lovebird, she was fine the first few days, then got sleepy, kind of puffy, sleeping during the day, you know... not right.

I gave her vitamin drops, and iron drops, and within a few days she perked right up again.
please consider the iron drops, I am not a vet, but based on my own personal experiences, it works wonders!.....not many people are aware how important iron is.
it can easily harm your bird as well if given too much.

 

[SoCalWendy]

Crimson, is this lack of iodine a canary thing or an all bird species thing?

 

[Pajarita]

No, it's not a canary or an any avian species kind of thing. Please be VERY VERY careful about supplements. We tend to regard bird symptoms from a human perspective (lethargic bird = lethargic human = anemia) but birds are not the same as mammals and even when the symptoms are the same, they might not be caused by the same problem. For one thing, lethargy is an every disease symptom with birds and, for another, birds hardly ever get dietary anemia (lack of red blood cells usually caused by lack of iron in humans). When they show low count in red blood cells there is usually another cause for it (cancer, bleeding, heavy metal poisoning been the most common) because unless a bird has been eating only seeds and nothing but seeds for years and years and years, they would not develop anemia. Birds do not normally have iron deficiency. As a matter of fact, birds that are given human cereals regularly (those stupid Cheerios!) -which are very high in iron- end up with liver malfunction and, sometimes, they even get metal poisoning for it, too, as it is toxic to them Birds that eat a good diet never need iron supplementation.

As to iodine supplementation... it's also not usually necessary. The only time it's warranted is when a budgie has been on a seed-only diet for many years and is in soft molt -a very common but ultimately dangerous condition as the liver works overtime constantly and ends up becoming enlarged not only because of the extra work but also because of the high protein and lack of vitamins. In a case like this, a bit of kelp for a few days does help with the soft molt but ONLY then and just for a few days.

Please, do not take my word for it, do your own research. Go to Avian Physiology text books and scientific studies and you'll see that I am not exaggerating.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

UPDATE--I think he is going to get well!!!! Late last night, I was actually crying and hugging his cage because I was thinking he wouldn't recover and I was going to lose him (his level of exhaustion looked ridiculous). I called the vet today and he didn't want to try anything additional yet (he said if he is not worse, take it day by day, maintain good nutrition, etc and we will only treat with more medication if he takes a turn for the worse).
Anyhow, I got in from a crappy work day, bad traffic on my commute home, and sat down with a drink and heard him chirping....not just a little, but quite a bit, and kind of hopping around on his perch! He has been pretty active all evening! He is up on his sleeping perch now but it's almost 10:30 anyhow and he isn't all slumped down but sleeping normally. I am SO HAPPY!!

 

[Pajarita]

That's real good news! I hope he continues to get better (are you keeping him extra warm? it helps them a lot when they are feeling poorly)

 

[ruffledfeathers]

I was going to almost 'tent' his cage for warmth, but since i like it kind of warm anyhow, i kept my central air temp high, and kept him in a warmer location within the house. (it's about 80-82 in the house, with the dehumidifier running so it's not stuffy but warm).
Again this morning he seemed very perky, not dragging anymore. He is not what i would call 100% yet but he looks SO MUCH better now!!

 

[Pajarita]

Great! Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for him!

 

[ruffledfeathers]

He is still improving.....almost 100%!! I am really happy!

 

[ruffledfeathers]

He got almost well and he is moving back toward the 'sleepy' side again!! I called the vet again and sadly i can't take off work today to get there, so i am going to get an appointment on Saturday. Even though the gram stain didn't show anything, he said we can try and hope for the best and send the droppings out to another lab to run full tests on it. It may or may not come up with anything, but if they do, they can maybe pinpoint what is going on. At this point there aren't a lot of options so i'm going to try it. He wasn't totally comfortable treating with more antibiotic 'in the dark' because it could push him in the wrong direction. I had a moment of sadness and hopelessness but now i'm coming around and level headed again. Have to stay positive, keep him warm, clean, comfortable, well fed and do the tests....and pray!

 

[JerseyWendy]

You are SUCH an excellent birdy mom!! I'll keep your baby in my thoughts and prayers, too.

 

[Pajarita]

My dear, keep him warm and as stress free as you can and please add liquid milk thistle extract (the non-alcohol one) to his water. It's an excellent liver cleanser and tonic and all birds benefit from it, especially when they are getting older.

But, most likely, it is the same infection that was not cured with the injection. His immune system got a nice boost with it and he started feeling better but the benefit is now long gone and the infection flourished again. Antibiotic injections work very well with parrots, especially doxy which is given once a week when they get chlamydiosis but canaries have a much faster metabolism so the antibiotic effect disappears very quickly in them and they also have much, much, much less muscle mass than the smallest of parrots so the shot themselves can be as dangerous as the disease.

Why don't you try giving him a bit of doxy in his water or some Baytril in his beak? I prefer doxy or even Baytril in the water because it makes no sense to me to stress out a bird twice a day when it's already sick by catching it and forcing something into his beak... much easier on them to medicate the water and just as effective. Doxy is given at a dosage of 100 mg in a liter of water (I use a quart which is slightly more concentrated). The trick is to take the water out of the cage in the evening and put fresh (meaning you make it right before you give it to the bird) medicated water in the morning and not to give them any leafy greens or fruits for the first two or three days so he will be thirsty and drink enough of the medicine.

I live in NJ, too, and breed Spanish Timbrados plus I've had canaries for over 40 years and have gotten quite good at nursing them so if you need any help, let me know (I can also send/bring you a few doxy capsules or some liquid baytril -I always keep extra, just in case).

 

[crimson]

Crimson, is this lack of iodine a canary thing or an all bird species thing?

people may disagree with me on this, but from what I have experienced with my birds, iron is a god send. I've saved 2 of my canaries with organic iron drops, and if one of my birds is just 'not right' it's the first thing I will give to see if it helps, most times it does.

there is a thread on here about a macaw that came back from the vets and was anemic....again, lack of iron.

I must stress though, iron can harm birds very easily, but I think overall a very small quantity does the trick.

 

[crimson]

No, it's not a canary or an any avian species kind of thing. Please be VERY VERY careful about supplements. We tend to regard bird symptoms from a human perspective (lethargic bird = lethargic human = anemia) but birds are not the same as mammals and even when the symptoms are the same, they might not be caused by the same problem. For one thing, lethargy is an every disease symptom with birds and, for another, birds hardly ever get dietary anemia (lack of red blood cells usually caused by lack of iron in humans). When they show low count in red blood cells there is usually another cause for it (cancer, bleeding, heavy metal poisoning been the most common) because unless a bird has been eating only seeds and nothing but seeds for years and years and years, they would not develop anemia. Birds do not normally have iron deficiency. As a matter of fact, birds that are given human cereals regularly (those stupid Cheerios!) -which are very high in iron- end up with liver malfunction and, sometimes, they even get metal poisoning for it, too, as it is toxic to them Birds that eat a good diet never need iron supplementation.

As to iodine supplementation... it's also not usually necessary. The only time it's warranted is when a budgie has been on a seed-only diet for many years and is in soft molt -a very common but ultimately dangerous condition as the liver works overtime constantly and ends up becoming enlarged not only because of the extra work but also because of the high protein and lack of vitamins. In a case like this, a bit of kelp for a few days does help with the soft molt but ONLY then and just for a few days.

Please, do not take my word for it, do your own research. Go to Avian Physiology text books and scientific studies and you'll see that I am not exaggerating.

good point~~ I'm just basing my experience with my birds and what works for my aviary, every bird is different, with different symptoms.

 

[ruffledfeathers]

In my opinion, another thing 'easier' about parrots--easier with normal blood work to check for things and know what needs changing or supplementing. My sun conure had low iron, and essentially it was 'my fault'! I was SO upset at that exam but it was for the best because I changed her diet. I was sad because I was doing exactly what I was taught was right and it wasn't (so I had been neurotically following a strict diet for her but she was malnourished!) I had been told how most of the diet s/b pellets with only low calorie things like fresh veggies offered, or she would be fat and die young, etc etc. She turned out to be underweight, slightly anemic, low blood protein--malnourished. Thank god she was young and healthy overall and I did the blood work because she got to eat better for the rest of her life. I have heard of people 'taught' that birds should eat pellets only and that can definitely gravely shorten the poor bird's life (and boy does it seem boring).

 

[Echo]

No, it's not a canary or an any avian species kind of thing. Please be VERY VERY careful about supplements. We tend to regard bird symptoms from a human perspective (lethargic bird = lethargic human = anemia) but birds are not the same as mammals and even when the symptoms are the same, they might not be caused by the same problem. For one thing, lethargy is an every disease symptom with birds and, for another, birds hardly ever get dietary anemia (lack of red blood cells usually caused by lack of iron in humans). When they show low count in red blood cells there is usually another cause for it (cancer, bleeding, heavy metal poisoning been the most common) because unless a bird has been eating only seeds and nothing but seeds for years and years and years, they would not develop anemia. Birds do not normally have iron deficiency. As a matter of fact, birds that are given human cereals regularly (those stupid Cheerios!) -which are very high in iron- end up with liver malfunction and, sometimes, they even get metal poisoning for it, too, as it is toxic to them Birds that eat a good diet never need iron supplementation.

As to iodine supplementation... it's also not usually necessary. The only time it's warranted is when a budgie has been on a seed-only diet for many years and is in soft molt -a very common but ultimately dangerous condition as the liver works overtime constantly and ends up becoming enlarged not only because of the extra work but also because of the high protein and lack of vitamins. In a case like this, a bit of kelp for a few days does help with the soft molt but ONLY then and just for a few days.

Please, do not take my word for it, do your own research. Go to Avian Physiology text books and scientific studies and you'll see that I am not exaggerating.

I agree. It comes down to feeding the proper diet to your bird. If you feed a nutritious varied diet and most importantly a species specific diet, you shouldn't need to add supplements.

 

[Echo]

I think the famous herb salad is completely useless and, to some birds, it could do more harm than good. Aside from the fact that the premise that birds can diagnose and actually medicate themselves with herbs that they have never seen before in their lives and which are not even native to their natural habitat is farfetched to say the least and, in my personal opinion, utterly ridiculous (not even a human genius could do such a thing) nobody who knows anything about herbs would even consider putting this mix together.

My canaries don't eat pellets. For one thing, I don't believe that pellets are the healthiest option when it comes to avian diet and, for another, even if they were good for parrots, I still would not give them to canaries. Canaries are natural grass seed eaters, that is what nature evolved them to eat so that's what mine get. No manufactured product can compete with a bird's natural diet. I feed ABBA 1700 from spring to molt. Once the molt is finished, I switch them over to black and white. They get a different green and fruit every day but they also get veggies like cherry tomatoes, baked sweet potatoes, grated carrots/zucchini/celery, corn on the cob, potatoes, beets, etc.

I supplement with a bit of vitamins during breeding (for the vit D3 mostly and I give them the daily dosage every other day for two weeks, only), 99% soluble mineral grit (the blue one from ABBA), wild flower organic polen and, during breeding and molt, they get a treat of Ralph Yellow or Ralph Red (also ABBA products). When they are feeding young, they get two fruits, one leafy green, ABBA 1700, Ralph, hatchling feed with seeds and two more sources of soft food which vary from day to day: multigrain bread, couscous, polenta, brown rice, sprouts, grated hard boiled egg, etc.

Canaries are actually hardy little things despite their very fragile looks and as long as you house them in a flight cage with natural perches, keep them to a strict solar schedule and feed them a large variety of fresh produce, they live long, healthy and happy lives.

Again proper diet is key here. Vets tend to recommend pellets because most people do not feed their bird a natural varied nutritious diet. If you feed healthy seeds, nuts, grains, veggies, eggs, sprouts, fruits, etc with a special care to each species requirements (like adding Palm Nuts/oil to your Grey for example), then you shouldn't need to rely on pellets. Unfortunately, a lot of people will give their bird too much seed and like 1 veggie/1 fruit every other day. Hardly the varied nutritious diet they need.

NOTE: I do keep pellets in each cage for them to eat if they want (which they do eat ALONG with they varied nutritious diet)