best pain medicine

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

I will be seeing my vet tomorrow. I will be asking her for more powerful pain meds. Im wondering what drug is the most effective to manage her pain., My grey is on gabapentin and metacam now. I want to lose the gabapentin and possibly consolidate into something more powerful for her, i use gabapentin myself and question if there isnt anything more geared for acute pain, and to help her sleep. Can I please get suggestions please, so I walk in there tomorrow more informed.

 

[Scott]

Most powerful pain med I've administered is Tramadol. Attached are series of articles, may prove helpful:

https://www.dvm360.com/view/pain-management-avian-patients-proceedings
http://avianmedicine.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/08_pain_management.pdf
https://www.isvma.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/AVIAN_SEDATION_ANALGESIA_Birds-1.pdf

I'd imagine your vet's menu of options includes choices best suited for short term vs long term use. Good luck, would love to know what is prescribed!

 

[SailBoat]

Pain medication should be offered in an amount that off-set /blocks the pain. Over medicating can result in serious issues including death.

In addition, most pain medication loss their effectiveness with time requirement every more potent variances, which can lead to over medicating issues including death.

This is a medical approach I cannot agree with then providing such information in a vacuum.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

Went to vet # 3 today.

asking $$1550 for tests. confirms the bird is pain, and her picking doesnt seem behavioral VS suffering. but wont give pain meds unless I run all the tests.

I agreed for the Avian standard chemistry CBC BA bloodwork / heres the thing/ nurse? took the bird to another room, and came back in less then 2 mins. Bird seemed like it was totally fine, If my bird was pricked, she most probably would of been freaked out. where do vets take blood from????? should there be a poke spot I can see? Im doubtful they did anything, and they seemed very upset when I didnt want to get the " deluxe" treatment" the doc didnt even say bye, she just walked out and left me with the subordinate. Found that to be quite telling in my eyes. I feel like I'll for sure be getting an email saying " nope didnt find anything"

Also since echocardiogram was on the $$menu they are telling me that the 1st ER Vet was wrong about my bird having a heart issue because the xray could show not this. and to not give her any more heart meds, the 1st vet said she owns a grey with a heart condition, and couldn't have been more confident about what she was telling me.

Not sure what do at this point. who to ask, or even trust. Im just sure my bird is suffering . Quite A Vacuum..

 

[Scott]

Most disturbing! Have you checked third vet's credentials and consumer reviews? You ought receive lab readout of every test, if not ask. Falsifying medical records fraught with trouble from licensing and state boards.

I would be inclined to trust first vet in the absence of verifiable contradictions.

 

[wrench13]

Having a patient that cant describe its symptoms is very difficult for any vet, and much depends on the state of the training and experience of that vet. I can only say that you want a Certified Avian Vet, especially in difficult cases like this. And you want to know that they are keeping up with the latest research, studies and programs at their alma Mata. And yeah, good to excellent vets are expensive, because of that.

My vet draws blood from the neck, that narrow band around the neck where feathers do not grow, and yes it takes seconds to draw bloods ( for an experienced vet or tech). It doesn't seem to bother Salty much, but he is called Amazon Lite by my vet.

 

[wrench13]

gabapentin - my wife takes this for nerve pain, and frankly the amount needed to be effective is scary, for both of us. And is it effective? She still has a lot of pain and has to supplement it with even stronger drugs , just to function. I tend to think of this as a "shut up and sit down' type of pain relief drug, not much use but the Dr can say hey you're getting pain meds. Sorry to learn that Gemma is hurting this bad. Good luck!

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

Most disturbing! Have you checked third vet's credentials and consumer reviews? You ought receive lab readout of every test, if not ask. Falsifying medical records fraught with trouble from licensing and state boards.

I would be inclined to trust first vet in the absence of verifiable contradictions.

Yes I did check the resources I could check ,they deem themselves the #1 place in manhattan for birds. I will be asking for that readout, and analyzing it thank you, Wrench I appreciated your point of view and I will give em the benefit of the doubt, its an ugly accusation lets just say the inner voice inside me was Yelling out a few inconsistencies. Id have to say what made me distrust them was all the upselling from every single angle . The doctor didnt like it when I said I wanted to use my own pharmacy for meds, and consequently REFUSED to give me minor pain meds like mexacam, after she confirmed the bird was suffering. One could say They need bloodwork but I paid for bloodwork so they can "check her liver and kidneys" but still NOPE! They told me Emeraid I give my bird isnt that good, it doesnt have Omega 3s/ and tried to upsell me on what they were selling, Well I took out my cellphone and showed them photos of the back of Emeraid and showed her the omegas3 and 6, then she tried to shame me and said you cant give that to your bird long term, Well, I also found in large black Italic in the photo " This product may be fed on an ongoing basis, STILL NO SHAME!!

I know some people like sitting on the fence, be judgmental and get all high N holy when they see the opportunity to give your 2 cent however I feel that not every Vet is a good one,and no question is a dumb one if im trying to comfort my pet . If im asking people here for advice You can bet ive spent thouands on the ER, vets, meds. Im tired, I haven't slept well in over a month, super stressed, and confused. I dont need virtue signaling I need help, since Im not satisfied with what I've gotten so far, and Ive gotten help here before. I dont need virtue signaling, leave that to the politicians please. Scott, Wrench Thanks for your comments I truly apricate it and anything you can add. Gemma is suffering.

 

[SailBoat]

I have for a very long time received a copy of the visit and that details what the Vet tested for, what the finds are and what steps are commended. Plus the findings of any and all tests. If medication is involved. What is recommended, the dosage, length of time. And a follow-up appointment.

Covid has vastly changed the entire medical industry including Avian Care. In near all cases they are busy and are moving from one client to another quickly, plus the required paperwork for each visit.

When pain medication is involved there are strict requirements that all medical professional are required to follow as cross-use is possible (Avian /Human) as a result, the medical professional has to assure they can support writing a script for such medication.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

Totally !!!!! I hear nobody even does ketamine anymore !!! its alll about metacam on the streets and the clubs. That stuff is super hard hitting!!!!! and you know those bird doses really get you skkkkkkkkkky high!

 

[Stitchthestitch]

I would just like to make a point, you say you paid for bloods to be ran, but you don't say when. Request Gemmas full history and all itemized bills so you can actually match what's been done to the bill. That way you can see what's been done and what the notes say as regards results and any potential diagnoses.

vets are legally required to run bloods on liver and kidney functions every 6-12 months to make sure that they aren't being damaged if your pet is on long term pain medication, and are required to refuse meds until the bloods have been carried out and the results have been examined.

You should absolutely be able to get a prescription to get meds from what ever pharmacy online or otherwise, but they will not hand you a prescription for certain meds (pain meds, antisezuire meds thyroid meds to name a few) if the bloods are over due.

They are not doing it to upsell, but for the sake of your pet. Metacam can cause serious liver issues longer term, like paracetamol can in humans. They have to be monitored and the only way this can be done is via bloods.

I used to work for a vets.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

I would just like to make a point, you say you paid for bloods to be ran, but you don't say when. Request Gemmas full history and all itemized bills so you can actually match what's been done to the bill. That way you can see what's been done and what the notes say as regards results and any potential diagnoses.

vets are legally required to run bloods on liver and kidney functions every 6-12 months to make sure that they aren't being damaged if your pet is on long term pain medication, and are required to refuse meds until the bloods have been carried out and the results have been examined.

You should absolutely be able to get a prescription to get meds from what ever pharmacy online or otherwise, but they will not hand you a prescription for certain meds (pain meds, antisezuire meds thyroid meds to name a few) if the bloods are over due.

They are not doing it to upsell, but for the sake of your pet. Metacam can cause serious liver issues longer term, like paracetamol can in humans. They have to be monitored and the only way this can be done is via bloods.

I used to work for a vets.

Thank you and I appreciate your reply. I will be analyzing whatever they send me. About the Upsell. Did you read the part of when they were selling nutritional support and in the same breath telling me emeraid is no good? and cant be fed long term? Telling me Emeraid didnt have omegas LOL. Ive been to a few vets now, and these guys were trying $$$ from every single angle. now If I never been to a vets before that would be one thing however compared to the rest, this place seemed wayyyyyy too money hungry, im entitled to that opinion I was there! and spent $350 walked out feeling ripped off. Honestly, it felt like being at a crooked mechanic and they were sizing me up for how deep they could go$$$$$ difference is mechanic does that part for free. I have no doubt that after the $1500 there would be a round 2 and so on if they could get me the loans and capitol, btw they seemed really willing to help with that part.
I had the blood work done there yesterday. They said they will call or email me with results, in a few days.


Btw she is bleeding from where she picks on her wing, if one could be so bold and tell me if neosporin would be helpful?

 

[Stitchthestitch]

I would just like to make a point, you say you paid for bloods to be ran, but you don't say when. Request Gemmas full history and all itemized bills so you can actually match what's been done to the bill. That way you can see what's been done and what the notes say as regards results and any potential diagnoses.

vets are legally required to run bloods on liver and kidney functions every 6-12 months to make sure that they aren't being damaged if your pet is on long term pain medication, and are required to refuse meds until the bloods have been carried out and the results have been examined.

You should absolutely be able to get a prescription to get meds from what ever pharmacy online or otherwise, but they will not hand you a prescription for certain meds (pain meds, antisezuire meds thyroid meds to name a few) if the bloods are over due.

They are not doing it to upsell, but for the sake of your pet. Metacam can cause serious liver issues longer term, like paracetamol can in humans. They have to be monitored and the only way this can be done is via bloods.

I used to work for a vets.

Thank you and I appreciate your reply. I will be analyzing whatever they send me. About the Upsell. Did you read the part of when they were selling nutritional support and in the same breath telling me emeraid is no good? and cant be fed long term? Telling me Emeraid didnt have omegas LOL. Ive been to a few vets now, and these guys were trying $$$ from every single angle. now If I never been to a vets before that would be one thing however compared to the rest, this place seemed wayyyyyy too money hungry, im entitled to that opinion I was there! and spent $350 walked out feeling ripped off. Honestly, it felt like being at a crooked mechanic and they were sizing me up for how deep they could go$$$$$ difference is mechanic does that part for free. I have no doubt that after the $1500 there would be a round 2 and so on if they could get me the loans and capitol, btw they seemed really willing to help with that part.
I had the blood work done there yesterday. They said they will call or email me with results, in a few days.


Btw she is bleeding from where she picks on her wing, if one could be so bold and tell me if neosporin would be helpful?

My apologies, I had missed that specific part about the dietary supplements. Each vet will have their prefered products. Mine did and I absolutely hated they choice of grooming products. Cheap nasty stuff that broke easily, or awful shampoos that you need to use half a bottle on a Chihuahua because it's so thin and runny.

For the bleeding, I suggest corn flour /corn starch as this helps stem the bleeding and being non toxic if Gemma preens and injests it. I've never used neosporin so I've no clue about that.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

I tried to post a photo of the rear label of Emeraid where it clearly states opposite what they were saying to me. But I couldn't get it to upload..

They told me they wish I brought the Xrays in, however I quickly said I could have it up on their computer in seonds , all I need to do is go on the vets website and type in a number takes- 15 seconds, they straight up acted like I didn't say anything! yet they wanna bill me over 400 in Xrays, I understand these diagnostics cost money and there is overhead but they didnt even want to look at the rays on my phone when I made a mad dash to pull it up on there. Its pertinent information, why would you not want to look at it as a medical professional????????????



Thank you for the Non toxic solution, I rather NOT use a chemical.

 

[Stitchthestitch]

If this is how they are behaving, I'd be looking for another vet, that's shocking behavior.

I have another questions as vets where you are may do things differently where you are, but did the ask to contact your previous vets for Gemmas history?

Here in the uk, it's an automatic thing, that they ring your previous vets for your history, especially if your seeking a second opinion or have been refered to a specialist. If they had done so, they would all ready have copies of any past tests, scans and xrays. I'd be questioning why they haven't got this.

As for the cornflour, it's no problem. It has a myriad of uses surprising including dematting dogs and stopping bleeding on minor injuries.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

they did contact vet number 2, however the X rays were not at vet # 2 which they did contact for records. X rays were done at the ER facility I went to when my bird was having stroke like symptoms.

The fact is that they didnt care to look at medical facts I had in hand , when just before, she was saying I wish you had that so I could see it.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

At what point do you think I may be harming her with the metacam? Granted you know I just paid for bloodwork. However Im asking your opinion. Also, did you read the part about the heart meds? I know this thread is long now .

 

[Stitchthestitch]

Honestly, I have no clue, as every pet, dog, cat and bird is different and metabolises the meds differently, which is why the bloods are so important. I am not a vet, just a dog groomer who worked for nearly 4 years in a vets and I picked up a lot of knowledge from them but it's only the basic entry level knowledge thta I've picked up.

Wait for the bloods and see what the vet says and go from there.

Is the vet you are currently seeing the only avian vet in the practice or are there other avian vets in the practice? Maybe aske to see a different one if you feel the current one isn't being helpful.

 

[Scott]

Sometimes you have to trust your instincts when faced with vexing ambiguity, or choose to spend even more $ and exposure to Gemma with yet another opinion. I have no issues spending $$$ with ethical and accomplished vets yet the two not universally synonymous. Have experienced my share of money grubbing and marginally competent avian vets, thankfully I now have a superb doc who performs many procedures in the exam room with me present and personally answers all questions to satisfaction. You are paying good money with precious life and deserve all of this!

I dearly hope you can find an ethical and competent vet for Gemma. She's been through the medical ringer and deserves every benefit. Frankly, the current vet rings the bell of deceit and indifference based on your narrative.

 

[CyrusLUVSGemma]

Vet #2 was more open to just leave her be and not put her through anymore. give her pain meds and see what happens. I just got upset I wasnt doing enough this week and started looking for more experienced in the city, however at this point it all seems like expensive testing with little promise, the 1st thing this last vet said was- we barely ever figure out the real causes . Im sure a day in NYC yesterday was stressful for Gemma, not to mention the visit. im just shocked shes carried on in pain for over a month now. Everyday is a gift.