Asking for prayers

[EllenD]

Visceral Gout would be a good diagnosis in-comparison to other reasons for high UA...Also, I just looked at the rest of his blood-work beyond the UA level, and his CPK is also obviously high, which is also an indicator for Gout...Have you noticed any swelling in his feet/toes/legs, or a change in their color to a lighter, more white color than usual? If it is Gout, Allopurinal is the treatment, along with only allowing the bird to eat sources of Protein that are "Non-Purine" sources, such as lentils, alfalfa, etc. I don't know if you feed a pellet staple diet, but if so, the sources of protein in them need to be checked to make sure they are non-Purine sources.

 

[Scott]

Hoping Phoe had a good night and is improved this morning.

 

[EllenD]

Me too, I hope that Phoe is feeling much better and is completely stable at this point, so that his CAV can start moving-forward with getting him better...

I just read Laura's post regarding fluids, and regardless of the cause of Phoe's kidney disease, Laura is absolutely correct, one of the best things that can be done is lots and lots of fluid-intake. And as Laura mentioned, we do Sub-Cutaneous Fluids every day at the Rescue, it's very easy to do, much easier than with a dog or larger animal because you simply inject the fluids from a syringe with a very small-gauge needle (I use a 29g needle) right under the skin on their back and in-between their "shoulder-blades"; I've also seen people do it under the skin on their belly/abdomen, but I think that's much more stressful for the bird because they can see it, and because they're carrying around that "ball" of fluid under their skin for a good 30 minutes to an hour until it's completely absorbed by their body...If you put it under the skin on their back, they can't see it, they can't hardly feel it if you're using a very small-gauge needle, and it absorbs into their body without any balance issue or issues with them "picking" at it...

****When the bird (or Reptile at my Rescue) has kidney disease and we do daily Sub-Cutaneous Fluid injections, we call it "Poor-Man's Dialysis"...And that's exactly what it is. I've seen birds, reptiles, dogs, etc. who were basically in kidney failure given daily Sub-Cu Fluids (usually Lactated Ringer's Solution, depending on the situation), and they quite literally are brought back from the dead in a matter of a day or two. And as Laura mentioned, giving them fluids sub-cutaneously is much less stressful than inserting an IV-catheter or god forbid an IO catheter (into the bone). So fluids are a big deal here. Hopefully the CAV has a plan in place, I'm sure they do, but getting that UA level down is going to be a priority...I hope that little Phoe is not in any pain from the high UA level, it's a really sucky situation when they do have Gout and they're in pain, because giving them pain meds can be dangerous due to the condition of their kidneys, but at the same time, Gout can be horribly painful, so it's a judgement call as to how to handle it...

 

[RavensGryf]

Terry, I’m so sorry about Phoe’s diagnosis. That’s so difficult to emotionally process when it’s a shock like that. Reading EllenD’s posts, I wonder if your vet considered gout before the recommendation of higher protein? Anyway, I’m so sorry for this, and I wish all the best for Phoe to heal.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Terry, as we wait for a Phoe bulleting... I'm so amazed at the bravery and expertise of all of you rescuers, to undertake these needy birds. You never know when there will be a price... emotional, financial, or other. I am so appreciative and amazed.

Poor Man's Dialysis, Ellen? Wow. I'm so squeamish... I could never do that. But I'm glad there are people like you, able and willing.

I wish I had one of you as a neighbor. I'd help out when I could, and call on you in an emergency!

Okay, Phoe, how are you, baby?

 

[Inger]

Holding you all close in my thoughts. [emoji3590]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Allee]

So sorry for the delay, just wanted to let everyone know, you make all the difference, your support is so appreciated. Terry's internet is down for the time being. Phoe is getting the best of everything, of course, he's being very cooperative, he's stepping up and taking his fluids every couple of hours, he has no problem with the syringe, if anything he seems to like it. His regular vet has offered a great treatment plan for him, I will let Terry share all the details as soon as her internet is up and running. Thanks again for the tremendous support.

 

[EllenD]

Yep, "Poor-Man's Dialysis"...That's exactly what it is, and it works extremely well...I've done it on dogs too, which is a lot more challenging because you actually have to use an IV catheter/tubing and hang an IV bag of Ringer's Solution, then grab the skin-fold on the back of the dog's neck, insert the needle, open up the IV drip, and sit there with the needle in the dog's neck skin for a good 15-20 minutes while the fluid drips in...It doesn't hurt the dog because the needle is so fine, but getting them to sit still for that long with a needle in them is not fun...Birds and reptiles are so much easier, you just inject it under the skin and you're good to go...once or twice a day and it's amazing what it can do for their kidneys...

As far as the protein thing, I understand the concept of Phoe's protein being low overall, but regardless of whether it's officially Gout or as of now just a general diagnosis of "Kidney Disease", with a Uric Acid level that high, any type of Purine-based protein is going to keep the UA level rising...That's why people in kidney failure or people with Gout should not eat a lot of red meat, drink red wine, cheese, etc., anything that is high in purine-based protein...Now if you are only providing protein sources that are not purine-based then that's a different story...Bearded Dragon babies often develop Gout, their feet and legs swell-up and it's horribly painful, and it's a real mess because throughout their first entire year of life they need to eat tons and tons of live-insects every single day in order to properly grow and develop. And if they develop Gout or some other type of Kidney Disease, they can no longer eat crickets, roaches, superworms, etc. They can eat a few Black Soldier Fly Larva here and there, but you basically have to switch them over to having a main protein source of Alfalfa Meal added to Emerald non-purine hand-feeding formula, and you have to syringe feed them multiple times a day, every day, until they are at least a year to a year and a half old and are done growing, and can switch-over to mostly fresh veggies, fruits, and the occasional BSFL worms...It's a nightmare...And the entire reason that this happens to baby Bearded Dragons so often (it's becoming an epidemic) is because the breeders of the ones that are sold to the pet shops like Petco and PetSmart in mass quantities want to save money, so they gut-load/feed their live Crickets and Dubia Roaches cheap, dry Dog Food that is loaded with purine-based protein...then the babies are fed those live insects from the time they hatch until they are about 6-9" long and are sent to the pet shops, and by then their UA levels are already out of control due to the Dog Food...it's yet another horrible mass-pet-breeding practice that makes the breeders and the pet shops tons of money and kills thousands and thousands of baby Bearded Dragons within their first 6 months and costs their new owners thousands in vet bills, allopurinal prescriptions, special formula, etc. It's awful...

 

[Kiwibird]

is because the breeders of the ones that are sold to the pet shops like Petco and PetSmart in mass quantities want to save money, so they gut-load/feed their live Crickets and Dubia Roaches cheap, dry Dog Food that is loaded with purine-based protein...

I know this is off topic, but having had a lovely beardie who lived a full life, this makes me so sad to hear When I had insectivores who ate crickets, I gut loaded on fruits/veg and a little bit of special 'pellets' specifically made for gut loading crickets to feed to reptiles. That 'special' cricket food cost next to nothing, the amount of produce crickets can consume is negligible and it's 100% fine to feed them scraps. How disgusting to be so cheap with animals health that you'd put a baby at disadvantage for life to save what? A few PENNIES? Absolutely unacceptable

 

[Kiwibird]

So sorry for the delay, just wanted to let everyone know, you make all the difference, your support is so appreciated. Terry's internet is down for the time being. Phoe is getting the best of everything, of course, he's being very cooperative, he's stepping up and taking his fluids every couple of hours, he has no problem with the syringe, if anything he seems to like it. His regular vet has offered a great treatment plan for him, I will let Terry share all the details as soon as her internet is up and running. Thanks again for the tremendous support.

Thanks for the update. Glad to know it was an internet issue as to why we hadn't heard from Terry yet.

 

[Anansi]

Terr, I'm so sorry that Phoe has been diagnosed with kidney disease. I'm keeping him in my prayers, my friend. And I'm also heartened to hear that he seems to be doing better

You may remember that Suzie, my cockatiel from years back, had succumbed to kidney disease. Unfortunately, as with humans, kidney damage can't be reversed. But depending on how early you've caught it, its current level of functionality can be maintained and his symptoms managed through medication and diet. So it's possible for little Phoe to live a long and happy life. The problem with my Suzie was that the correct diagnosis was reached too late, and the damage wrought by then was too severe. I think Phoe's issue has been accurately assessed at a much earlier stage.

It's been years, so I don't quite recall the exact names of the meds used, but I do remember there were 2 involved. An anti-inflammatory drug for the short term, and another that he was to take indefinitely to head off any further damage to the kidneys.

The anti-inflammatory was key in the short term, as birds' spinal cords run between the kidneys. So when said kidneys get inflamed and swell up, they begin to compress the nerves leading to the lower extremities; thereby inhibiting the foot's ability to grasp. (Suzie was at the point where he could no longer reliably maintain his grip on a perch by the time he was properly diagnosed.) I suspect this is why Phoe was staggering a bit. I'd suggest that you set his perches low in his cage until everything is sorted and his levels start looking better.

I don't know much at all about gout, save what I've just learned reading Ellen's posts, so I'll be reading up on the article Laura provided. We all appreciate so much how everyone has rallied around our Terry. I know how much that means to her.

Terr, we're all pulling for Phoe. He's a tough little guy and he couldn't have a better set of parronts, so he's got a lot going for him. Looking forward to your next update, my dear friend.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Phoe's Community is the greatest, just like l'il Phoe!

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

I just saw this Terry We are saying our mightiest prayers for Phoe!

As far as knocking poor Phoe out to do x-rays I think it was a good call on you for refusing. When Amy was diagnosed with heart trouble Doc Kristen said she wanted to do X-rays,but said she was going to use a sedative to just relax her. Amy was very stressed after the initial wellness check and collapsed in her carrier and the Doc said to put her out completely would have prolly been fatal

Again,Amy and Beebs and I are praying/wishing our best for Phoe..and for you and Reg also my friend(s)



Jim/Amy/Beebers

 

[GaleriaGila]

Good morning, Phoe. Your fan club is still holding vigil here...

 

[ChristaNL]

Still sending 'get well soon wishes' ...

 

[LeaKP]

Oh yes we are hoping for better things ahead. [emoji120][emoji2534][emoji177]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[saxguy64]

Oh Terry, I'm so sorry I'm so late in seeing this. Just stumbled on to it in Gail's scrapbook. Prayers and hugs for little Phoe. So glad you got to your vet and have a plan to help.

 

[EllenD]

Just checking-in for an update this morning...Good to hear that Phoe is eating and drinking normally, and is willingly taking the fluids from a syringe orally. It's always easier if they actually like the prescribed treatment, lol...

It really does sound like regardless of his blood-levels and the extent of the kidney issue, that Phoe is going to make it through this. As already mentioned, you cannot reverse kidney "damage", however, it's important to keep in-mind that "Kidney Disease", UA levels, Creatinine levels, BUN levels, etc. do not equate to Kidney "damage"...So it's quite possible that even though Phoe's Kidneys aren't working correctly right now, that once the reason/cause of this is taken care of that Phoe will be just fine and have little Kidney "damage" at all...That's an important distinction to make, the one between "Kidney Disease" and "Kidney damage", as they are not at all the same thing, nor does one necessarily have to cause the other...And this is a good thing!!!

More Positive-Energy to Phoe!!! And to Terry and family as well!!!

 

[Inger]

Still holding you and yours close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Terry57]

First of all, I so want to let everyone know how much your support has meant, not only to me, but to my husband as well.
I was going to reply to each message individually but am so far behind with my internet issues that I am going to just say thank you all so much for your support, advice, links & prayers. The caring you have all shown for my baby is helping to keep me together, and there are no words to convey what this has meant to me. A huge thank you to Allee for updating for me as well.

Phoe is doing much better. Other than tiring more easily, he is playing, and doing his usual things. There has been no more stumbling since that first morning, and his eyes have remained clear.He literally runs when I come in with the syringe to get to me, with no issues. He has been eating the whole time, and also drinking, and we are making sure he gets extra fluids to help flush out his kidneys. His poop is completely normal. My vet did not feel that anything other than oral fluids is necessary unless something changes. If the situation declines, I do have an emergency number so we aren't all alone in this, thank goodness. As for now, on Thursday Phoe is going to be examined, labs retaken & xrays done. I am anxious to see new bloodwork since I have no faith in the vet who ran it originally, and I know that Phoe's Dr. knows what she is doing with using the proper procedures.

This is in her report that I was sent (by my vet, the other place would not send it to me), and it is not even close to the conversation we had:
_____
"Recommended sedation for BW and radiographs.
Owner declines any sedation as she is too nervous of Phe dying under sedation - discussed risks of handling/restraining
without sedation, and that we probably won't be able to poke for blood or hold still for rads without sedation. Stress of
handling could kill him. Owner still declines sedation, even when told her we could do something quickly reversible. She has
heard of too many other parrots dying under sedation before. Told her I was not comfortable doing any heavy restraint
without sedation. She asked if there was any way that we could do awake BW. Owner would like to do nail clip collection
despite being warned of the discomfort, and that it is no longer a recommended practice."
______

Her "quickly reversible" was 4 hours of being unconscious. She said he could wake up sooner, but that was a general timeline. We never had a discussion about nail clip collecting, the only conversation we had was that I did not want him put under general anesthesia for bloodwork. When she called me with the results, she told me there was nothing that could be done. That the only option was a kidney biopsy and that she knew how I felt about sedation. That was really the end of the conversation as I told her to get the labs to my regular vet.

Back to Phoe. He has 2 bowls of water in his cage, and also a bowl changed multiple times a day with different unsweetened fruit juices (cranberry is his favourite). We are also giving him extra water by syringe, alternated with Pedialyte. He loves the syringe and drinks right from it. The only change to his diet until he sees the vet on Thursday is an addition of egg whites and shells, and an addition of a small amount of Hemp Oil to his food. We also are giving him more fruits, he loves grapes, Cherries, poms and cranberries and I found some watermelon last night. She does not want to change his diet in a major way until we sit down and talk about it Thursday. I did get some white rice after reading what Ellen mentioned (we usually use whole wheat). I am also following the veggie list Ellen had in April's thread about Kiwi. (Special thanks to April for the link and Ellen for the post). Also thank you Ellen for the info about Purines. I was unfamiliar with that term, and am glad for the information.

He eats Tropimix & Zupreem, but the major portion of his diet is veggies, which he loves. I do veggies twice a day for the birds. I have removed the Zupreem for now, he prefers the Tropimix anyway and wanted to cut down on pellets for now.

She did mention Gout, and we will be discussing that further on Thursday.The goal until then is keeping him stable,eating and drinking and adding in the extra hydration.

Anyway, my apologies for writing a book here, I don't think I missed anything. And again, thank you all for your support. I really do love every one of you.