Apparently even a tiny mistake will instantly kill a parrot?

[Telken]

So I'm doing my research into getting myself a Pionus, and I'm at the stage where I'm looking at making sure my home is safe for such a creature. The problem is, from what I've been reading, it looks like almost everything in day to day life is going to instantly kill my bird via fumes. Using an oven will generate toxic fumes. Having a power cord in the room will electrocute or strangle the bird. Having a sharpie in the house will instantly poison the bird via fumes. And anything that's ever had any form of glue? Game over. It even looks like things that are supposed to be good are also bad, like apples are good but the seeds are toxic? Bleach and the fumes from it are clearly going to instantly kill any bird (even a few rooms away), but apparently a preferred disinfectant is a 1:10 bleach/water solution?

I guess the real question is, just how wary of toxins like this should I really be? In 25 years is my Pionus going to spontaneously keel over because my theoretical future child decided to use a sharpie to make a birthday card?

PS: The particular site that's setting this off is Cockatiels, Household Hazards,Teflon and Cockatiels,Lead Poisoning,Chemical Fumes,Toxic Substances,Lethal Substances

 

[RavensGryf]

Hi, I didn't read that link yet, but the general idea is to err way on the side of caution. No, they won't necessarily keel over that easily, but many have in certain situations, because there are so many variables in each home and with each individual.

Many years ago, I had heard of these warnings but didn't think much of it. I would cook with Teflon, light scented candles, cleaning chemicals that you can smell throughout the house, etc. and Robin is almost 21... that many years later he is still alive and well. Lots of people did too, and their birds didn't die. BUT... don't do it. It's not good for them anyway.

Think of it like this, why not let your young children regularly drink booze or smoke in the privacy of your own home? It's probably not going to lead to immediate death, and it might not necessarily even cause an addiction later... Well, of course while it may not happen, it CAN cause serious health problems for children, so why risk it?

There is no need for extreme paranoia about this like the article led you to believe. Just some good common sense and awareness of the facts . When in doubt about a specific situation, don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Telken]

Yeah, I'm all for taking precautions, especially when doing it the safe way costs me nothing (ie: I don't have teflon anyway -- that I know of). Really I just want to make sure that a bird isn't going to take over my life in such a way that before I ever touch something or bring it into the house, I need to spent 10 minutes googling it and calling manufacturers to check on safety. That would stink. I feel like I'm up for the long term commitment of a parrot, along with the day to day maintenance and making sure that it's really a home for the little guy. What I don't want is a situation where my pet/companion is so fragile that keeping him alive is all-consuming and I spend all my time reading labels and worrying. I feel like I'm wording this wrong, but I assume you kinda get what I mean? When I come home I want to be thinking "Oh yay, I get to hang out with my bird now!" and not "Oh crap, I need to double check whether or not this soda can is emitting toxic iron fumes".

 

[RavensGryf]

When I come home I want to be thinking "Oh yay, I get to hang out with my bird now!" and not "Oh crap, I need to double check whether or not this soda can is emitting toxic iron fumes".

LOL! I think you could be excited about coming home and seeing your bird, especially now that you're informed after reading that lengthy article . If it were really that bad, no one would have any birds left!

 

[ShaunaR]

Hello,
I had this exact response when researching parrot ownership! Pixie is about 14 months old and my oven still hasn't been cleaned because I have a self cleaning one and the alternatives are so toxic-smelling I have no idea what to do! In the end we will likely have to take the birds out of the home and run the self clean that way. In the meantime I have decided people with parrots must have the dirtiest ovens!
We tossed all of our teflon pans but there are safe alternatives out there such as ceramic coated and some of the new "green" varieties that don't emit toxins.
I used to burn ALOT of incense and candles before we had birds and miss it greatly. I will simmer oranges and lemons with cloves on the stove now to freshen the house. I pretend we have a child with severe allergies and asthma in the home. I have found that there is a natural alternative to most toxic things in a home and it's just a matter of finding out where to look. Pinterest is a great resource.
The main thing we try to do is wash our hands before ever handling our birds and their stuff, never leave them unattended anywhere when out of the cage, and inspect all toys thoroughly. Anything with bells must be supervised as Pixie has already had her beak stuck up inside one and it was very scary to remove. Anything she could potentially put her head into like baby rings are out because we have had her stuck that way too. Some of the toys are safe for one bird and not another so in some ways you have to observe your bird playing alot to see what their habits are and just use common sense.
I wash everything in a weak solution of water and Dawn dish soap, including new toys even if they are wrapped, and water and food dishes daily. That removes alot of the unecessary dyes and most bacteria. I also wipe down her cage bars every second day with the same solution followed with a rinse-wipe with a clean wet towel. We don't use used cardboard boxes of any kind for shredding especially if they have gone through the mail or a warehouse due to dirt and bacteria but we do buy clean cardboard drink trays from a local restraunt supply store because they are clean and wrapped. We also purchase cardboard made specifically for making bird toys.
We are still learning. Like anything else with animals, alot of things you will read are just common sense, and some of what you read are freak accidents that most bird owners would not know enough to prevent. Birds are work and the learning curve is pretty steep at first but you do settle into a routine eventually and relax more.
Bottom line: It's all worth it!
Shauna and Rick

 

[Kiwibird]

I would say if you own a bird SOME things have to change. Others are venturing into the realm of paranoia. Birds are sensitive, but the whiff of a sharpie isn't going to make them keel over:20:

Things you WILL have to change for a bird:

-NO teflon. This WILL kill your bird if overheated and has happened over and over and over to loving, unsuspecting, or "not my bird" owners. It is a REAL risk. Since many ovens are non-stick lined, that also makes high heat uses of the oven (such as self clean cycles) not possible with a bird in the house. There is plenty of cookware you can use- stainless (takes getting used to using, but once you learn to use it properly, you won't have sticking issues), the new ceramic stuff, enameled cast iron (very non stick, though heavy and expensive), regular cast iron... Lots of options that ARE ok to use in a bird home and are healthier for YOU too

-NO harsh cleaning chemicals in the birds area. Chemical cleaners are generally a no-no in a bird home, and many of us use steam cleaners (a worthwhile investment for cleaning cages/walls/floors around the bird and the rest of your home) or vinegar (many of us prefer it to bleach) for sanitizing instead of chemicals. In reference to sanitizing a cage with a bleach solution, that is mostly referring to a used cage you need to sterilize from disease potential and is intended to be done outdoors, away from the bird and thoroughly scrubbing the cage down afterwards with water to get any bleach residue off. Vinegar or steam cleaning does just as good, and is a lot safer for "general" cleaning/sanitizing.

-You WILL need to bird proof. It's like having a toddler with wings, so yes, you will need to take some precautions with things like power cords (more watching your bird around them), covering outlets, toxic substances (keep them in a cabinet!), keeping the toilet lid down/not having standing water around (drowning risk), being diligent about keeping doors/windows closed when the bird is out, being diligent about locking the cage securely when your cooking, going out or doing things that may pose a risk...

-Common sense helps. Using a sharpie will not kill your bird. Your bird getting a hold of a sharpie and eating it might though. If you need to use superglue or other harsh smelling adhesive, use it in another, well ventilated room or outdid. Painting or getting new carpet? Birdie can stay with a friend/neighbor/relative until the air clears of the fumes. Spraying some perfume on yourself in the bathroom will not kill your bird. Dousing yourself in it right in front of your birds cage might cause some issue though. Bleaching your toilet won't kill you bird. Setting an open container of concentrated bleach right next to your birds cage might. You see what I'm getting at here?

 

[Birdman666]

The oven per we will not kill your bird, however, the self cleaning cycle is instant death to a parrot. You need to get the bird out of the house before using it, and ventilate well before bringing them back in.

Teflon is absolutely fatal.

Alvocado is usually fatal.

Pesticides that kill bugs will also poison your bird.

There is a reason they brought canaries into the coal mines... Their systems are much more sensitive than ours.

 

[Telken]

Alright, that relieves a lot of my worries. It sounds like for the most part, given that my home is already iguana safe, it should be just fine. I don't have teflon dishware, anyway, and I don't actually like avocado.

Let me list off a few things that I have around that I'd like to sorta check on:

- When I'm disinfecting things from my iguana (including my hands), I use a highly diluted Clorhexidine spray. I go with a little less than 1oz:1g. I'm always very careful to make sure it doesn't touch the actual animal, and it's kept in my no-no bin. That's basically the bin that has things like laundry detergent, spare soap, everything that I don't want my iguana getting into. I know the residue is perfectly safe for reptiles to be on (after being wiped quickly), but how that translates to birds in terms of fumes/residue I don't know.

- I've got one of these shelving units ([ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H2L32CI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00"]Amazon.com - Whitmor 6070-5264 Supreme 5-Tier Shelving Unit, Black -[/ame]) that I keep (covered) fish tanks on. I'm sure a bird will nibble on those bars if allowed to, and from looking at cage construction info (I'm building my own large cage) it looks like some forms of metal or coatings are highly toxic? I don't know with this one, though.

- A live, healthy, full sized, lazy iguana

- With fish, there's a product called Seachem Prime. It's a water conditioner used to neutralize chlorine. When you open the bottle you immediately get a strong smell of sulfur. Generally the bottle lives in my nono bin.

- Apple Seeds. I love eating apples (especially Granny Smith <3) and as much as I love them, I expect that I'll be asked to share. I've heard (read) that apple seeds may be bad for them?

- Wood (treated vs untreated). I'm leaning towards making the cage with a wooden frame rather than metal, simply because it's easier for me from a construction standpoint. Actually, on a related note, is stainless steel really the only safe material for the cage walls? Fiberglass mesh and aluminum are no-gos?


I'll probably think of so many more things.

 

[Kiwibird]

Keep your cleaning supplies/chemicals for the other animals in a box (like one of those plastic bins with a lid) or a cabinet and don't use them for the birds cage. I keep my aquarium supplies in the cabinet the tank is on. You'll also need a secure lid on your aquarium (drowning risk).

An iguana isn't predatory so it's not a big deal they would be in the same home, but you obviously wouldn't want to let your bird interact with your iguana and visa versa. Both can bite and hurt each other, just not a good idea. Probably one needs to be in it's cage while the other is out.

A parrot will simply chew up a wood enclosure, and yes, stainless is pretty much the only material that is safe. PVC piping is safe, but you'd still need stainless mesh for the sides. To be honest, you'd be a lot better off and probably save a while lot of money just buying a nice species-approrpriate cage designed to house a parrot.

Apples are a healthy treat to share with your bird, just don't give it the seeds. Parrots actually need fresh fruits and vegetables every day. Your iguana probably gets similar foods to what a parrot needs (in terms of produce).

 

[Telken]

Makes sense. With the rack, I checked through the page again, and it says that it's made of "black epoxy coated steel". Is that safe, or do I need to make sure a bird never touches it?

With the cage, the reason I was going to make my own was so that it could be quite large. Honestly, I'm not a big fan of keeping a bird in a cage that can fit on my desk, no matter what the usual guidelines are. Besides, it's very hard to find a bird cage deeper than 20 inches, and I'd honestly like 3 feet for a pionus. The dimensions *I* want for a single pionus (maybe a pair) are 4Lx3Dx4H.

Now I've noticed that almost all the cages on the market are made of wrought iron. What's with that?

 

[Kiwibird]

What bar spacing does a pionus need? They aren't particularly small birds, so they may be able to live in a cage for a larger bird (?). Also, what country are you in that you're having problems locating a large cage? Larger cages are typically widely available, though the bar spacing may be too wide (not sure, hoping some PI owners can chip in here?). A macaw or double macaw would be HUGE for a bird that size.

The wrought iron used in cages is professionally coated with a non-toxic powder coat that is bird safe, but it is not something you can do at home (nor can you use uncoated wrought iron). Your epoxy coated shelving is fine, just don't let the bird chew on it.

 

[Telken]

I'm just up in eastern Connecticut, though New England seems to be bizarrely empty of everything. From what I've read, the perfect bar spacing is 3/4", but there's been success with even 1".

Actually, I forgot to check Foster&Smith. I'd say I found a suitable (not perfect) cage, but this one's only 1/2" spacing: Bird Cages & Aviaries: Prevue Wrought Iron Flight Cage w/ Stand

The real problem I'm having is finding one that's deep enough. I do want *at least* 24" depth, and most of the cages I've found online are only 19-21".

 

[RavensGryf]

I remember an ex long time breeder of Pionus said that a 1" spacing is fine for any Pionus including the smaller White Capped. I do agree. Raven's first cage was an old one I had which had 1" spacing and was perfect. I had to replace the cage though, and the new one is 3/4". Either one is fine. They're medium sized birds, roughly the weight of the smallest Amazons (white fronted, Cuban, etc)..

Raven's new cage is this one in the link except in black. It's very spacious and has room for tons of stuff inside. Raven is a pretty sedate guy, and doesn't even take full advantage of the size to be honest. He loves the cage though, and so do I. King's Cages - Avian and Pet Bird Cages, Supplies, Food, Toys, Perches, Aviaries, Pluck No More

 

[jasper19]

You know, i went through the same thing you did before i got angel. It seemed insanely daunting, not wanting to make a wrong move.

What i have come to realize, is these birds are quite a bit more hardy then we give them credit for. At least that has been my experience.

When i picked angle up, there house (and box of newspaper they sent with her) smelled horrible of pot and cigarettes. They smoked in the house in the same room with the bird. She lived!

Before i realized the self cleaning cycle could be so bad, i did indeed run it in on my oven. With the bird in the house. She lived!

There are cords in my house, light fixtures, she has flown into the kitchen unexpectedly. Guess what..she lived!

I am not saying accidents don't happen. i know it only takes 1 time. But if you keep an eye on the bird when they are out, and have a safe enclosure for them when they are caged, you should be solid. Simple to just remember anything smoky/fumes/candle etc....can potentially be bad for them. Thats the major stuff in my eyes.

 

[Birdman666]

Let me list off a few things that I have around that I'd like to sorta check on:

- When I'm disinfecting things from my iguana (including my hands), I use a highly diluted Clorhexidine spray. I go with a little less than 1oz:1g. I'm always very careful to make sure it doesn't touch the actual animal, and it's kept in my no-no bin. That's basically the bin that has things like laundry detergent, spare soap, everything that I don't want my iguana getting into. I know the residue is perfectly safe for reptiles to be on (after being wiped quickly), but how that translates to birds in terms of fumes/residue I don't know.

- I've got one of these shelving units (Amazon.com - Whitmor 6070-5264 Supreme 5-Tier Shelving Unit, Black -) that I keep (covered) fish tanks on. I'm sure a bird will nibble on those bars if allowed to, and from looking at cage construction info (I'm building my own large cage) it looks like some forms of metal or coatings are highly toxic? I don't know with this one, though.

- A live, healthy, full sized, lazy iguana

- With fish, there's a product called Seachem Prime. It's a water conditioner used to neutralize chlorine. When you open the bottle you immediately get a strong smell of sulfur. Generally the bottle lives in my nono bin.

- Apple Seeds. I love eating apples (especially Granny Smith <3) and as much as I love them, I expect that I'll be asked to share. I've heard (read) that apple seeds may be bad for them?

- Wood (treated vs untreated). I'm leaning towards making the cage with a wooden frame rather than metal, simply because it's easier for me from a construction standpoint. Actually, on a related note, is stainless steel really the only safe material for the cage walls? Fiberglass mesh and aluminum are no-gos?


I'll probably think of so many more things.

CHLORHEXIDINE HAS A PDR WARNING, IF IT COMES IN CONTACT WITH THE EYES IT WILL CAUSE BLINDNESS! That goes for them AND US!

Apple slices are fine. Just don't give them the seeds.

Wood = Untreated only.

Wood Framed Cages = Birdie Chew Toy.

Galvanized metals = Heavy metal poisoning if ingested by the bird... and they will chew on the bars of their cage, count on it. They will either get sick, or die, if enough is ingested.

Most bird cages are powder coated wrought iron, and really, it's cheaper in the long run to buy a quality cage than it is to make one. Home made cages just tend to not hold up to parrot beaks. You will be replacing stuff so often that it will be less cost effective and more problematic than just buying a quality cage to begin with.

Plus a good quality cage will be easier to clean.

Fiberglass is an absolute No-No! Ingestion hazard.

Anything scented = when in doubt, use it away from the bird. This is more a ventillation and air quality thing than anything.

 

[Birdman666]

Before i realized the self cleaning cycle could be so bad, i did indeed run it in on my oven. With the bird in the house. She lived!

YOU GOT INCREDIBLY LUCKY MY FRIEND!

Someone I know hired a cleaning lady, to clean their house for them. They had a bird room. She used the self cleaning oven feature. Every living thing in that bird room literally keeled over dead!

You can use it, but get the birds out of there, and ventilate it well...

THE WAY THIS WORKS? THE OVEN IS COATED WITH TEFLON...

Need I say more?

It's deadly 99 times out of 100.

You were the 100... Just sayin'...

 

[Kiwibird]

The real problem I'm having is finding one that's deep enough. I do want *at least* 24" depth, and most of the cages I've found online are only 19-21".

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Prevue-Products-Empire-X-Large-Hammertone/dp/B00KYQUJME/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1436367013&sr=8-7&keywords=macaw+cage]Amazon.com : Prevue Pet Products Empire Bird Cage, X-Large, Black Hammertone : Pet Supplies[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Prevue-Products-Silverado-Dometop-3155S/dp/B000TZ3P6W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436367013&sr=8-1&keywords=macaw+cage]Amazon.com : Prevue Pet Products Silverado Macaw Dometop Cage 3155S Silverado 46-Inch by 36-Inch by 78-1/4-Inch : Macaw Bird Cage : Pet Supplies[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Superior-PARROT-64X32X70-macaws-cockatoos/dp/B00BTV2D04/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1436367013&sr=8-13&keywords=macaw+cage"]Amazon.com : KING'S CAGES Superior Line SLT 6432 PARROT CAGE 64X32X70 Extra Large Bird Cage toy toys macaws, cockatoos (GRAY/SILVER) : Birdcages : Pet Supplies[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Large-Wrought-Parrot-Cages-Dometop/dp/B004WGWMM2/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1436367124&sr=8-25&keywords=macaw+cage]Amazon.com : Large Wrought Iron Bird Cage Parrot Cages Macaw Dometop 36"x26"x65" *Egg Shell White* : Pet Supplies[/ame]

LOTS of choices available that are deeper than 21"! And these are just the first few that popped up. I think perhaps you're searching "pionus cage" or cages for medium parrots. Try searching "macaw cage" or cages for lg/xl parrots and you'll find bigger results.

 

[jasper19]

Before i realized the self cleaning cycle could be so bad, i did indeed run it in on my oven. With the bird in the house. She lived!

YOU GOT INCREDIBLY LUCKY MY FRIEND!

Someone I know hired a cleaning lady, to clean their house for them. They had a bird room. She used the self cleaning oven feature. Every living thing in that bird room literally keeled over dead!

You can use it, but get the birds out of there, and ventilate it well...

THE WAY THIS WORKS? THE OVEN IS COATED WITH TEFLON...

Need I say more?

It's deadly 99 times out of 100.

You were the 100... Just sayin'...

Ya i understand this. But my point is a person can only worry so much. Just take most/every precaution you can, and enjoy your pet, odds are things will be ok. I do not run the self clean any more just to be safe even though it was fine once.

Also with the stove, she was in upstairs room, stove on main level also placed under a window. The window happen to be open during, so maybe that helped vet it outside better idk.

I just think people OVER worry sometimes about some things. I think they are a bit more hardy then given credit for. Though still realize they can die quickly under certain circumstances.

 

[Birdman666]

Yeah. I gotcha.

Your bird was out of reach of the toxic fumes, and you had enough ventilation.

I've run it before, too, but I took my birds outside cages and all, and let the place air out good with fans blowing out the kitchen and and all the doors and windows open before taking them in... and that's just a basic common sense precaution. I just didn't want someone to get the wrong impression, so-and-so did it, and his/her bird didn't die. It's an old wives tale... and then come back later with OMG my bird just dropped dead! I thought it was safe. That one is almost always deadly...

 

[Birdman666]

Using an oven will generate toxic fumes.

NO JUST THE SELF CLEANING FEATURE.

Having a power cord in the room will electrocute or strangle the bird.

ONLY IF HE CHEWS ON IT, OR SOMEHOW GETS HIS NECK TANGLED UP IN IT.

Having a sharpie in the house will instantly poison the bird via fumes.

MYTH.

And anything that's ever had any form of glue?

MOSTLY MYTH. SOME GLUES CAN BE TOXIC.

apples are good but the seeds are toxic?

CORRECT.

Bleach and the fumes from it are clearly going to instantly kill any bird (even a few rooms away), but apparently a preferred disinfectant is a 1:10 bleach/water solution?

BLEACH FUMES ARE TOXIC TO HUMANS TOO, IF THEY ARE CONCENTRATED ENOUGH, AND THERE ISN'T SUFFICIENT VENTILLATION. MIX IT UP IN A DILUTED FORM, IN A ROOM AWAY FROM THE BIRD AND YOU'RE FINE... I USE MY UPSTAIRS BATHROOM FOR THIS... (BIRD ROOM IS DOWNSTAIRS.)

In 25 years is my Pionus going to spontaneously keel over because my theoretical future child decided to use a sharpie to make a birthday card?

NO, BUT MY NOT THEORETICAL YOUNG CHILD DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE BAKING PAN SHE WAS USING WAS TEFLON COATED, AND MY CONURE AND A FOSTER BIRD INSTANTLY FELL OVER DEAD...

THE DANGERS OF TEFLON ANYTHING ARE VERY REAL.

A lot of these sites list anything which MAY BE potentially hazardous... and they are conservative in their approach. (i.e. It goes on the list if we don't know.)