Amazon Plucking

Well here we go again....every time I think he's getting better, his symptoms return. Came home tonight to find a cage floor full of feathers and him twitching again. He's been off the CA EDTA for roughly a month and his symptoms were at times gone or very slight. I want to bang my head against the wall. The hopeful thing was that it WAS about a month with little to no symptoms so perhaps the zinc is not gone yet. I'm waiting on results from this last test. Ughhhhh....
 
This sounds so frustrating!

I wanted to mention this because I have been doing some reading up on Eclectus and Amazons and apparently eclectus are prone to toe tapping due to calcium deficiencies. It can also lead to plucking.

Clearly, your FID isn't an eclectus, but he is toe tapping and plucking. Maybe the same thing applies? Did they check for calcium levels? Does he get any calcium supplements? It might not hurt to try something like that....
 
This sounds so frustrating!

I wanted to mention this because I have been doing some reading up on Eclectus and Amazons and apparently eclectus are prone to toe tapping due to calcium deficiencies. It can also lead to plucking.

Clearly, your FID isn't an eclectus, but he is toe tapping and plucking. Maybe the same thing applies? Did they check for calcium levels? Does he get any calcium supplements? It might not hurt to try something like that....

That's interesting because, when he's on the CA EDTA - he's getting calcium (the CA bit) - although I don't even know if they're the same type of calcium :confused:.
So that could be why he's better when on it and then has calcium deficiencies when off.

I don't know enough about it - but just found that link between them interesting.

Amethyst, it must be so frustrating and heart breaking for you. I hope you find an answer soon.
 
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I'm sorry he had a relapse of symptoms :( Hoping he goes back to improving soon.
 
His first zinc test was positive. His second and third were negative. I just had a 4th zinc test done this past Saturday and am waiting for the results.

He was never tested for his calcium levels but just about everything else.

This has been going on since January.
 
Giving him calcium is fine but what he really needs is unfiltered sunlight. He doesn't have to be in direct sunlight (he can be in the shade) but he needs to be outside. Windows,glass,plastic,etc, filter out the UVA/UVB that he needs. 20 minutes per week of full sunshine or an hour or two in the shade. depends on how shady.

Is there any rust on his cage ? Do you have another cage you could try? Have you tried bottled water only? Just thinking of sources of metal toxicity.
 
Re: Amazon Plucking & Twitching

Also in elect uses toe tapping and twitching is also a sign of too many vitamins / minerals.
Maybe try a shake up in his food, go a little more fresh and decrease pellets for a bit.
 
He has a UV lamp in his room - I am at work all day so he can't be outside. Plus there have been hawks seen in the area so I hesitate to bring him outside.

I have switched up his diet.
Currently Eating: (Vet Approved) - to promote weight gain since he's underweight.

Harrison's High Potency Coarse

supplemented / or mixed up / changed up with:

Zupreem Nut Blend
Nutri-berries Senior (snack)
Harrison's Recovery - a pinch of this on his food
Harrison's Power Treats (snack)
Harrison's Bird Bread
Fresh fruit & vegetables
 
Re: Amazon Plucking & Twitching

That's a lot of Harrisons. If he is getting to much vitamins that a be where. I know Vets recommend this diet, but it would be worth trying to reduce and see if it helps. UV lamps aren't the same as natural sunlight and some say don't help at all. I take my amazon out on the deck in his cage and sit with him, we have lots of predators.
 
He's not getting them all at once...I alternate and may mix up some. Skip some on some other days, etc....his keel bone protrudes and he's been thin for a quite a while now so both vets he has been to tell me to feed him variety.

He doesn't have a portable cage that would fit through the door to go out and his regular cage is huge and doesn't fit through the door or down the stairs to the backyard.

There is no rust on his cage or any other items in it.
 
If you want to put weight on him,,, peanut butter, butter on his veggies,corn on the cob with butter, bread/toast with butter /peanut butter, Red palm Oil, Nuts (pecan,walnut,peanuts,almonds), hemp seeds, saffron seed, more fresh fruits (high sugar content). Just FYI vets get a kickback from Harrisons, they are the only ones who can sell it, or you have to get it from a vet dealer. They do have some incentive to recommend that product.
 
I almost wonder if he has something along the lines of nerve damage from the zinc poisoning. I.E. no zinc left in his body, but it left him with long-lasting damage.

And those "sunlamps" are useless except for heat and light. My reptiles have sunlamps for warmth and daylight/night schedules, but thats about all those ridiculously expensive lamps do. They still MUST receive calcium supplements and other vitamins from other sources because nothing simulates UVA/UVB properly. I would suggest a cuttlebone and manu block in the cage (cuttlebones are rich in calcium, manu is a natural mineral-rich clay amazons eat in the wild, and it is VERY good for them). In the winter when Kiwi cannot go outside, I also will put a couple drops of vitamins in his water once a week (you do NOT want to do more because it can become toxic if given to often). I've heard red palm oil is also very good for parrots lacking in sunshine, as are other vitamin-a rich foods such as sweet potatoes. Really rooting for your bird to be on the road to recovery!
 
I've tried the Booster in his food and also the Sunshine Factor. I actually put the Sunshine Factor in his birdie bread. He likes it. When I tried on a separate occasion to give him Booster mixed with some Harrison's he wasn't that crazy about it.

What to give and not give your parrot can drive a person crazy. I have given him literally a dab of peanut butter off of my finger and he goes crazy for it. But not more than that, because I've read peanut butter can be toxic - or is that fresh peanuts in the shell..? I've given him sweet potatoes - which he likes, but I didn't know butter was allowed.

I have given him a tiny piece of toast but then heard bread (i.e. yeast) is not good for them. I'm going loony and becoming an overprotective bird mother here. He loves almonds but refuses to crack walnuts in the shell unless I do it for him and then give him the walnut out of the shell. He likes Blueberries and sweet fruits. Tried spinach, kale and broccoli and string beans and he doesn't touch those.

And just to make matters even more crazy, both of his avian vets don't think its the zinc anymore. So I am wondering - what the heck does he have??

The damage FROM the zinc as Kiwi mentioned, now that makes sense to me. Why wouldn't his vets bring that up though? Did I mention he has stress bars on his feathers from all he's been through? Do those ever go away?
 
Can you get a pix of the stress bars? Yes they will molt out at some point with a healthy diet. The issue with peanuts being toxic is the aspergillous mold that grows on the fresh peanut shells. Aspergillous is found everywhere but is concentrated in the shells and other places mold grows. My amazons have eaten bread/toast all their lives and i've never had an issue ( other than them gaining weight). Butter is good in your case because it's high in VitA and fat that your bird needs. The sweet potaoes with butter would be great in your situation. So is the RPO/Sunshine factor.
 
I can take a pic of the stress bars when I get home tonight...

He loves raisin toast - although it was a very tiny piece - now that I have that all straightened out, he's definitely going to get more plus butter. Do you melt the butter first or put it on straight from the fridge?

Thank you / and thank you all again for the help / suggestions and concerns.
 
What to give and not give your parrot can drive a person crazy. I have given him literally a dab of peanut butter off of my finger and he goes crazy for it. But not more than that, because I've read peanut butter can be toxic - or is that fresh peanuts in the shell..? I've given him sweet potatoes - which he likes, but I didn't know butter was allowed.

Yes it can drive you crazy! Understanding a "healthy" diet for parrots is sometimes like understanding the equations behind quantum mechanics lol. Real butter (not margarine) is a nice treat for birds, as is cheese and yogurt. I've never met a zon who didn't love dairy products.

I have given him a tiny piece of toast but then heard bread (i.e. yeast) is not good for them. I'm going loony and becoming an overprotective bird mother here. He loves almonds but refuses to crack walnuts in the shell unless I do it for him and then give him the walnut out of the shell. He likes Blueberries and sweet fruits. Tried spinach, kale and broccoli and string beans and he doesn't touch those.

Amazons don't have powerful enough beaks to crack walnuts. Half-crack it with a nutcracker and "help him out" :)

Bread in and of itself is not bad for birds, it's the 'modern' bread that should raise concern. Read the ingredient label on the bread. If theres stuff that really oughtn't be in bread (i.e. much more than flour, yeast, salt, sugar), I wouldn't give it to him personally. The bread you buy at the grocery store is full of all kinds of mold inhibitors, HFCS, preservatives, flavor enhancers, things that make it a uniform texture.... It can give US intestinal yeast if we eat too much, and it can do the same to your bird. "Normal" bread (homemade or sprouted grain/organic from the store) has a much more acceptable ingredient list that is fine in reasonable quantities for birds:)

I always say, some is better than none with fruits and veg. If he likes xyz fresh produce, then that's what you should offer until he opens his mind more. I also keep in mind, parrots do not eat spinach, kale or broccoli in the jungle, they eat fruit. The NATURAL sugars in fruit can make for some extra unpleasant (for us) hormonal stuff that time of year, but I'm not convinced fruit is bad for animals who live primarily off fruit in nature:20: Just watch too much citrus, as it is acidic, but fruit, IMO, is a healthy part of a parrots diet.

And just to make matters even more crazy, both of his avian vets don't think its the zinc anymore. So I am wondering - what the heck does he have??

The damage FROM the zinc as Kiwi mentioned, now that makes sense to me. Why wouldn't his vets bring that up though? Did I mention he has stress bars on his feathers from all he's been through? Do those ever go away?

Maybe they didn't think about it. Next time you speak to them, just bring it up in a "I was thinking, and wondered if this could possibly be the case" and just get their opinion. Truth is, your bird is EXTREMELY lucky. Many birds who get zinc poisoning don't make it to see what the long term effects are. It's worth bringing up, especially if it's more intermittent now.
 
i am certainly rooting for this poor boy to get better!!!

i can't help but notice that he is getting a lot of pellets in his diet…like some have already mentioned, a change in diet could help. harrisons pellets are good! but too much of a good thing can also be a bad thing, but that is just my opinion ya.

instead of harrison's birdie bread, you could try homemade birdie bread? my 'zon and in fact my whole flock loves their 'bread'.

there is no fixed recipe for this but just to give you an idea of what goes in, i soak overnight and cook the next day, wild/brown/red/black rice, job's tears, buckwheat, quinoa, lentils and peas. steam carrots, sweet potatoes and pumpkin. put all those in a blender with kale, swiss chard and flax seed. then i add coconut flour, barley flour, spelt flour, steel cut & rolled oats and soaked goji berries to the blended mixture until it has a stiff consistency. portion out into "cookies" and bake in the oven at 175 degrees celcius for 30 minutes.

This 'recipe' i feel covers a wide range of their nutritional needs and might be able to keep his weight up while letting him take a break from pellets.

since, well you seem to have tried everything else except change his diet, it could be worth a try:)
 
Honestly I too am surprised (VERY lucky and VERY grateful) that he's lasted this long with this condition. I've always heard how delicate their health is. This all started in January of 2014 and I acted quickly. I still hope that it is not too late to restore his health back to normal or even close to normal. Every day I wonder if it will be his last, that's how I feel, some may feel it is overreaction, but I always kiss him goodbye in the morning and at night and tell him I love him.

With all the stress he's been under (and in all fairness, me too) for all the worrying and running around, I'm surprised *I'm* not twitching.
 
hang in there kiddo, we're rootin for ya both.
 
Another update...so let's see - he has had a total of 5 zinc tests. First one positive and the others all negative. I am guessing the zinc is gone, HOWEVER, he has not stopped plucking, biting his feathers out. He barely (if at all, twitches or taps his foot). Although every time I type an update on that, he starts to, so let's forget I even mentioned it !!

The doctor now says I should consider his environment (allergies, etc.) but we have no carpets or rugs anywhere in the house. He is not allowed to roam free. I watch him whenever I take him out of his cage and he's on his play perch.

I've cleaned and scrubbed his cage. We did board him with the vet when we were away for a week and the doctor told us he did not pluck or show any symptoms. So, unless I bring him in for anti-inflammatory meds, what else is there to do? I thought all these symptoms were due to the zinc but now that all his tests come back normal but he still plucks, the vet is looking at other causes. That's like looking for a needle in a haystack. We all know parrots can pluck for any reason. I thought Amazons were the least "pluckiest" breed. Vet #2 thinks it is hormonal and wanted to give him hormonal shots. I passed on that for now.

But, he is alive, eating, gained a little weight and bit me HARD this morning so I guess that is a good sign ?? !!! :30:
 

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