African Grey died less 2-3 from when we received him

[AfricanGreyCoco]

African Grey died less than 3 months
I purchased bird from Ana’s Parrots and supplies on 01/06/2019. Based on the picture and texts between Ana Pullman and I the bird was beautiful and healthy. I paid for DNA test, and never got copy of the test, she did say in text only it is Male. I received a different bird, little dark, and different of the picture, and I text Ana and asked how old the bird was she said 6-8 years old, the bird we purchased had the band on the left leg, the bird we received had the band on the right leg . We thought everything was fine, until he got sick, 03/23/19. DR need more info regards his age and his heathy I contact Ana, when she sent a picture of the bird, she was supposed to send to us that when we realized she sent us the wrong bird. We accepted Coco as darker color not thinking he was dying bird. We never though he had about 2-3 months to live. I did contact Ana, asked to refund and pay for medical bills since I think what happened was not correct. The bird we received; we were told was 6-8 years old died for the follow illness/diseases: (necropsy was complete)

DIAGNOSIS
1) HEART: MODERATE TO SEVERE ATHEROSCLEROSIS
2) PROVENTRICULUS AND VENTRICULUS: LYMPHOPLASMACYTIC
GANGLIONEURITIS AND LEIOMYOSITIS

COMMENT
The lymphocytic and plasmacytic inflammatory infiltrates described within the gastric sections
are consistent with the findings in proventricular dilatation disease (PDD). The clinical signs
may vary between psittacine species but generally include; depression, weight loss, constant or
intermittent regurgitation, passage of undigested seed in the feces, ataxia, abnormal head
movements, seizures, and proprioceptive or motor deficits. There will be a variable distention
and/or dilation of the gastrointestinal tract, most commonly noted of the proventriculus. A viral
etiology is associated with PDD.

Based on our case submissions, atherosclerosis is more common in African grey
parrots, Quakers, cockatiels, Amazon parrots and infrequently in cockatoos, conures, macaws
and lovebirds. The average age range is 10 to 15 years.

We did file complain with BBB, Attorney General, Consumer Protection and we do hope we can receive the right resolution.

 

[LaManuka]

Welcome to the Forum but I wish it was under better circumstances. This Ana’s Parrots outfit should be shut down forthwith, I have NO idea how or why they’re allowed to continue operating. All I’ve ever read is awful heartbreaking stories like yours and I hate to think of the miserable lives their poor birds must be living. I’m sorry for your loss. Hopefully your next birdie adoption will be a happier experience for all concerned.

 

[AfricanGreyCoco]

How about we start something to help other family not to go thru this. Maybe ask to change the law regards the pets, if you buy a pet and died within first 90 days they will be responsible.
If there so many out there the we may start get some signature and have Law to protect Pets & Animals Owners in all States

 

[charmedbyekkie]

How about we start something to help other family not to go thru this. Maybe ask to change the law regards the pets, if you buy a pet and died within first 90 days they will be responsible.
If there so many out there the we may start get some signature and have Law to protect Pets & Animals Owners is all States

I hear your pain. There should be something to protect innocent beings.

However, while your case shows that Coco did die due to PDD, not all pets who pass away within the first 90 days of rehoming are due to breeder negligence. Not your situation - but we have seen situations where some owners don't do their research beforehand and due to their own negligence, the bird dies. I know this isn't the case for Coco, but we do have quite a few responsible breeders in this forum who spend their time and money to make sure their babies are happy and healthy and go to good homes.

I agree irresponsible sellers should be held accountable. And no one would wish your pain on anyone. I hope you find healing, no matter what course of action you take.

 

[Scott]

Sadly, "pets" in the U.S. are generally considered "personal property." Laws deliberately vague with minimal restitution for grievances.

Various agencies have tried and continue to elevate public awareness to enhance the lives of companion and other animals with very mixed success.

Unfortunately this is a very steep uphill battle for you and others in similar predicament. Continued poor breeding and/or conditions continues to plague most every form of companion animal, to say nothing of those raised for food. (totally separate issue)

 

[dhraiden]

I am sorry for that loss. When I saw the name of the seller question it reminded me that I've seen EllenD write dis-favorably of them before, with good reason:


http://www.parrotforums.com/questions-answers/77855-ana-s-parrots.html#post774901


Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community - Search Results


Caveat emptor.

 

[ParrotGenie]

Don't get me started with Ana’s Parrots., they sure have been shut down a long time ago. They are well known for selling sick and not tested birds at outrageous prices. You not the first as had several of my customers and friends had similar stories over the years. Including a baby Moluccan Cockatoo I had wean myself as they sold it to someone unweaned for over 4k and bird almost ended up dying, but thankfully friend told me about it.

Reading the whole ElienD thread, I am not surprised that they are a parrot mill as seen they always have birds for sale at very outrageous prices. Hopefully you be able to take legal recourse and don't back down. Theses people needed to be shut down a while ago, you be doing a lot of people a favor.

 

[Kiwibird]

While I am unsure you would receive compensation, PDD is highly contagious and can spread to wild birds. Given the scale of this operation and that they ship all over, I wonder if the USDA or perhaps the local fish and wildlife agency or even the local animal control department would be interested in a confirmed case of PDD in a large scale bird breeding operation... just imagine if that spread to native migratory birds, local endangered species, livestock etc... I’m certain one of the government agencies would be interested in this and this operation needs to be shut down. This could be the reason.

 

[SailBoat]

While I am unsure you would receive compensation, PDD is highly contagious and can spread to wild birds. Given the scale of this operation and that they ship all over, I wonder if the USDA or perhaps the local fish and wildlife agency or even the local animal control department would be interested in a confirmed case of PDD in a large scale bird breeding operation... just imagine if that spread to native migratory birds, local endangered species, livestock etc... I’m certain one of the government agencies would be interested in this and this operation needs to be shut down. This could be the reason.

So very well stated Kiwi's Mom!
The majority of States that are along the migration routes quickly become concerned when such confirmed cases occur. In my State, such confirmed cases require that they are reported to the State by the Vet.
Your State may have an 'implied warranty' that provides some limited protection when a product fails (dies) within a limited time after purchasing.

 

[Flboy]

Sorry for this nightmare! Ellen will blister the internet when she sees this!

 

[ParrotGenie]

They sold birds in the past that had virus, but PDD is worst of the worst and good chances if one tested for PDD. Likely they have a few birds now with PDD? Ones kept in that same area. Being that they are pretty much a bird mill sanitary. 'hygienic conditions' is not the best. Then selling these birds to unsuspecting customers just makes a bad situation way worst.

Most responsible breeders would have requested test results, refunded customer affected, once case was proven, including vet bill occurred, or offer to replace bird at their costs and isolated all bird that came in contact with each other, or same area and no birds and would be sold, till all were tested and everything back under control.

What do they do just keep selling birds with zero care, as they have a few on several sites listed currently.

 

[Coco_2019]

What I don't understand is, if there are more people who were hurt, or or were sold sick bird why we don't see more google reviews, BBB, more info out there in order to prevent more family to go thru this. See Coco dying in the hospital and we couldn't do nothing, and per the report he was sick for a long time.
She texted and said she will sue me.

 

[ParrotGenie]

What I don't understand is, if there are more people who were hurt, or or were sold sick bird why we don't see more google reviews, BBB, more info out there in order to prevent more family to go thru this. See Coco dying in the hospital and we couldn't do nothing, and per the report he was sick for a long time.
She texted and said she will sue me.

You can get negative reviews flag on Google and removed and some other sites, I have seen it done before and then you have to remember most people don't know, or bother to leave reviews. Plus they go by multiple names in same area which is the dead give away and pretend to be a regular breeder out of home as ElienD thread pointed out, to avoid people even knowing about the mill and to command higher then usual prices, as people won't pay the price if they really knew where they from and how big they really are. You have to remember it is about supply and demand and if they pretend to not have very many birds, demand goes higher and people paid the outrageous prices. These guys are very slick and know how to play the game. I refer to it as border line market manipulation.

The problem is most buyers don't ask questions, or demand paperwork as proof tests were done, or bird was vetted and give these crooks money. They are blinded by the fact as seller makes it as the species is rare, or a baby and buyers wait in line pretty much like a eBay bid war and pay over the top for something that can be had a lot cheaper if you wait and keep a eye out,or get from a more reputable breeders. Always demand proof of tests and paperwork before handing over large sum of cash and if excuse like later, run away.

 

[Tami2]

I am very sorry. I can't even imagine.

Back in the day when we got our first Lab he came w/ a guarantee. Labrador Retrievers are at a higher risk for Hip Dysplasia. If the puppy had an X-ray confirming this before the age of 2 or 3, I can't remember exactly. The breeder either reimbursed the cost of the puppy or gave you another puppy for free. Our Lab was diagnosed at 9 months with bilateral HD. Now, I haven't purchased a Lab puppy since 2006, so I'm not sure if good Breeders still practice this?

When I purchased Levi in Aug of '16. I was told to get him in to see a Vet within 72 hours for a wellness check up. If the Vet diagonsed anything other than a Clean Bill of Health he would give us another bird, or our money back. Does ANA's have a policy like this one? Did you take Coco to the Vet soon after you got him home?

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[AfricanGreyCoco]

Hope this is not stupid question. Since Coco was my first bird, yes, please don't judge me. I have not get over yet because I am still trying to to understand what happened.

When you buy bird, do the company need to provide Delta with healthy certificate from veterinary from PA to TX?
Would this form be on my forms too?

 

[AfricanGreyCoco]

She now said she did, but was not discuss, and we did not have contract. Per the DR, some blood work will not show proventricular dilatation disease (PDD), and based on Coco's conditions he was sick for a long time, and could not travel. The trip triggered the illness.

Plus he died of this as well: atherosclerosis

Based on our case submissions, atherosclerosis is more common in African grey
parrots, Quakers, cockatiels, Amazon parrots and infrequently in cockatoos, conures, macaws and lovebirds. The average age range is 10 to 15 years.

 

[AfricanGreyCoco]

Scott I am not sure how to replay but will replay under you for all in this group...I am still have some questions and maybe someone can help:

Hope this is not stupid question. Since Coco was my first bird, yes, please don't judge me. I have not get over yet because I am still trying to to understand what happened.

When you buy bird, do the company need to provide Delta with healthy certificate from veterinary from PA to TX?
Would this form be on my forms too?
I saw this on the Delta form: African Grey D10*15*15IN*1 - would this be the info the suppose the be in Coco's band? His band was blank.

 

[AfricanGreyCoco]

I am not sure how to replay but will replay under you for all in this group...I am still have some questions and maybe someone can help:

Hope this is not stupid question. Since Coco was my first bird, yes, please don't judge me. I have not get over yet because I am still trying to to understand what happened.

When you buy bird, do the company need to provide Delta with healthy certificate from veterinary from PA to TX?
Would this form be on my forms too?
I saw this on the Delta form: African Grey D10*15*15IN*1 - would this be the info the suppose the be in Coco's band? His band was blank.

 

[noodles123]

I am so sorry....I wish I could help...You mentioned PDD and that is really the only thing that I can try to explain, but please know that I feel for you and I am so sorry for your loss..

PDD is weird because it is shed by asymtomatic birds in some cases (and it can take up to 10 years to impact some birds, if ever). It is deadly to some and not to others and they aren't really sure why that is...Some carry it for ages and eventually do get sick, but others live out their full life-expectancy, while some become very ill within a few weeks.
A healthy looking bird can shed the virus and infect others.
It is spread via feather dust, dander, oral and nasal secretions and fecal matter. It can also be spread from mother to embryo...Wild birds can carry it too, so if a bird is outdoors or is given a toy from a shop with other birds, these are possible routes of infection. Testing for the disease is tricky, because carriers can test negative and one test is rarely enough...
It is a very complicated disease with numerous strains and it is not well understood. An infected bird will not test positive immediately, so it is possible that an exposed bird would have a negative test during early stages (just as infected carriers can test negatives--even if they have had it for years). A blood test is the most accurate way to diagnose it, but it isn't as cut and dry as some diseases...You need a conjunction of tests (blood, x-ray etc etc) in order to make a clear cut diagnosis in a live bird.

Here is some information I found about testing in live birds (from what I understand, these types of tests aren't common in breeding situations):
" Two methods of identifying ABV infection are available at Animal Genetics: serology (using rELISA) which tests for immunological exposure to specific ABV antigens, and direct rtPCR which detects the presence of ABV-specific RNA. Our complete ABV panel includes both the rtPCR and the rELISA panel. ABV rELISA panel consists of 4 AVB-specific proteins (P40, P24, P29, and matrix). A small serum sample is required for the rELISA panel.
ABV rtPCR panel is a multiplex assay that amplifies both conserved ABV M&N segment genes as well as two internal RNA controls (housekeeping genes). Internal controls are extremely important to confirm proper RNA isolation. For routine ABV screening using rtPCR, the most reliable samples are chest or breast contour feathers."

^ABV is often, but now always, the precurser to PDD, but again, there are many strains and the virus is not well-understood....

Here is some more information: https://lafeber.com/vet/avian-bornavirus-primer/
"There is evidence that ABV is endemic in parrots in the United States, with screening of some homes and aviaries revealing infection rates of 33% to 60% in clinically healthy birds. Considering the difficulty of testing and the intermittent shedding of the virus, these infection rates for exposed birds are likely higher than what is reported."

 

[Scott]

Scott I am not sure how to replay but will replay under you for all in this group...I am still have some questions and maybe someone can help:

Hope this is not stupid question. Since Coco was my first bird, yes, please don't judge me. I have not get over yet because I am still trying to to understand what happened.

When you buy bird, do the company need to provide Delta with healthy certificate from veterinary from PA to TX?
Would this form be on my forms too?
I saw this on the Delta form: African Grey D10*15*15IN*1 - would this be the info the suppose the be in Coco's band? His band was blank.

Delta requires tag information with health certificate. Scroll down a bit, just past Health Requirements: https://www.delta.com/us/en/pet-travel/shipping-your-pet

Wonder if your case is stronger because the bird shipped differed from the one pictured. Unless you agreed to this, seems like bait and switch.