Would it be crazy to buy a Sun?

[jbail1026]

Hmmm...I think Alcmene is a bird-person, she just hasn't accepted it yet! For anyone with that much animal handling and training experience, it's a short leap. When you get your bird home, I think you will be enchanted in no time. I had a darling Nanday conure for several years (he had gout and a neglectful first owner who smoked around him, and sadly passed away before his time), and while he was LOUD he was also smart and sweet and quite the clown. You won't believe how smart they are. If you are the caretaker and trainer, I think you'll end up with a great bird the entire family will enjoy. Your daughter will be thrilled no matter what. I just want to also plug lovebirds, too, since they are small and fun, too.

 

[Birdman666]

Well, first of all, I'm not sure that it's really a hormonal thing at all. That, to me, is more a socialization thing with a conure. Too's yeah... a few of the other birds, yeah... but not really sunnies...

I had my sun conure from the time it finished hand feeding, until it was 12, almost 13 years old. He was out and about trained, and free flighted, which unfortunately, ultimately led to his demise... he was struck by a car while flying back to me one day...

HE NEVER ONCE bit anyone. He didn't scream. He loved everyone. He was out and about trained. He was poop trained. He was trick trained. He was a great little bird...

The thing about conures though, is that they are pair bond birds. There are generally two different types of parrots (with a couple of rare exceptions) flock birds, that take multiple mates, and interact that way with multiple people, and pair bond birds, that are "hard wired" to pair up with another bird, or in captivity, a person...

They have a favorite person. If they are not allowed to overbond, i.e. get handled by a lot of people from a young age, then they continue to allow it, even when they have a favorite person...

My daughter could handle Py just fine at age five. But by age five she had also handled amazons and large macaws as well, and understood how to... (I taught bird handling classes down at the rescue. She came with. By age 7 she could have probably taught the class!)

As for all the negatives that everyone is saying, if your daughter is that interested, she will probably learn to take care of the bird, provide fresh food and water, etc.

A tiel is also a good choice.

I disagree with the idea of getting her a budgie. They are less interactive, and if the child is not interested, it is the bird who will suffer.

 

[Frumpydumple]

What about Lineolated Parakeets? Barred Parakeet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I personally wouldn't recommend a Sun Conure either because they are very loud and it is easy for them to over bond. My Sun is bonded to my mother and will fly at my face and attack me and anyone else apart from my mother. They are great birds though and it is your decision but as a first bird I would choose something a bit smaller first.

 

[alcmene]

children have the attention span of a gnat. So after the new wears off in a couple of weeks, guess whose bird it will be. A Conure is a big investment for a 5 year old child. I say this because neither one of the parents are bird people from what I read. But you better learn to be because the bird will become your soon enough.

I disagree completely. I think it's unfair and untrue to lump all children together and act like they are all the same, and that their default is "flighty and irresponsible." Every child, just like every adult and every bird, is an individual.

If we were talking about my other daughter, for example.... well, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because there is no way we would have even considered getting her a bird (or any other animal) at age 5. She was one of those kids who is just a ball of energy. Never stopped moving. We went to the playground every single day as a necessity- if she didn't get a chance to run and burn off energy she would have driven us crazy.

My current 5 year old though, couldn't be more different from her sister. She learned to read very early and is comfortably reading chapter books by herself now. This weekend, we went to the library and she checked out Charlotte's Web. She spent the entire next 2 days reading it straight through. We're talking every waking moment of her life, sitting stock still, engrossed in her book. We had to drag her away to eat and bathe.

2 girls- raised the same way, in the same house, by the same parents and they couldn't possibly be more different. My older daughter is the most graceful ballerina in her whole dance school, plays the piano beautifully, is a force to be reckoned with on the tennis court- she's gifted in anything that requires her to move. If you tossed a ball to my younger daughter it would just bounce off the middle of her forehead while she floundered around trying to catch it. But she devours books. She loves to bird watch and can correctly identify over a hundred species of birds by song alone. She once had a squirrel come up and sit on her shoe because she sprinkled corn all around her and sat so quiet and so still for so long that it wasn't afraid and came right up to her to eat. They're both very special children- in their own different ways.

As her mother, who knows her better then anyone else on this earth, I can tell you with 100% confidence, my 5yo can handle a bird. Not just handle, but relish in it. She is calm, gentle, and infinitely patient. She is mature and responsible. She never even has to be reminded to take care of her betta fish (which she has had for 3 years, and if there is anything on this earth more boring then a betta fish, I surely don't know what it is)! Most importantly, she loves birds. She's been drawn to them since infancy. And it's true, birds aren't really my thing. I don't dislike them, but I've never wished for one either. But if they truly speak to her soul, that's something that I'm going to help nourish in her.

 

[lquan]

Like most of eveyone previously posted, I agree that you should get the tiel for your wonderful daughter if she decided that she wanted a parrot. If she has no preference, then a pair of canary or Gouldian finch would be better as first bird. Have you look at a Gouldian finch or shown photos of Gouldian finch to your daughter? If she like colorfull bird, nothing beats a Gouldian.

Conures are highly social bird. In a year, your daughter will spend most of her day in school. Whoever stay home most of the time, will have to deal with it. If both of you are working, then the conure will be screaming all day in its cage. Conures are loud when they are caged up. When they are out of the cage having fun with you, then they are very nice and produce lots of cuddly sounds.

In my situatuation, my wife stays home while I am out for work from 9:30am to 6:00pm. My 2 boys, 10 and 7, love bird like your daughter. Their grandparrents don't leave in the same state we are. Each year we have to travel from CA to NC to visit my parrents. Unlike cokatiel, I can't leave my conure at home for 2 weeks. If I had a cokatiel, my friends and neighboor would be happy to keep it for 2 weeks, because tiel doesn't need out-of-the-cage-time like conure. Flying a bird domestically is very expensive; it cost more than a sun conure per trip. Your freedom will be limited if you love to travel like me.

 

[Birdman666]

EXACTLY!

And I admire you for doing what you can to help your daughter find her passions, and calling, in life.

Again, mine went with me to the bird rescue at AGE 5, and helped me, and at that young age she was able to handle everything from conures, to large macaws... (She's got the Cockatoo gene.)

So, no, I don't think that statement is true 100% of the time.

Some can. Most can't.

 

[legal_eagle]

Thank you everybody. I am reading everything and really appreciating everyone's input on the matter. A little more pertinent info to answer people's questions/concerns:

-We have a very large home (8,000 sg ft) that we own, on 2 acres of property. Disturbing the neighbors isn't an issue for us

-I would never ever ever in a million years put my daughter in charge of the bird's care. She is exceptionally responsible for a child, but she is still just a child. It is not safe or fair (to her or the animal) to put her in charge of it's care. She does help me care for our other pets, but in the role of an assistant when I am taking care of their needs. So any bird we get can't be a "one person" bird. She will love and play with it, but I'm the one that's going to be cleaning its cage, feeding it, responsible for its training, etc.

-I am a SAHM, so am home pretty much 24/7. The bird being alone too much wouldn't be an issue for us

-We have never had a bird before, but before I became a SAHM I worked with animals. In the past I have been both a professional dog trainer and a zoo keeper (for reptiles, not birds). I have never trained a bird before, but have read a TON about how to (and also bought the entire series of Barbara Heidenreich/ Good Bird Inc videos) and I do have a significant amount of experience training other animals.

The particular sun we've been loving on doesn't seem to be exceptionally noisy. I know it's not the same as living with him 24/7, but we have visited him at various times of the day and usually stay for 30-60 min when we visit. Don't get me wrong, when he does vocalize he is LOUD. Ear splittingly loud. But he seems to not vocalize very often. He squawks as a greeting when he first sees us, and then usually peeps up once or twice more during our hr long visit. It isn't a constant screech festival. I don't know if that's typical of suns or not, or if he would behave differently in our home then in the store.

Other factors I'm considering:

-A reason to get the cockatiel: my husband can be sensitive to loud noises. BUT- we do have a very large house and he isn't home all day. He is gone to work from 7am-6pm 5 days a wk.

-A reason to get the conure: We all have absolutely terrible allergies and my husband has mild asthma. I am very worried about the dust factor with the cockatiel. BUT I've read that the dust can be kept under control with daily baths and frequent cleaning around the cage.

On paper, a cockatiel sounds like a better choice. But birds are such individuals, and I know you really have to take the specific personality of a specific bird in to account when selecting one, not just rely on generalities about the species. And the conure clearly adores my daughter. His whole demeanor lights up when he sees her. And the feeling is definitely mutual. It's so hard. We are just really torn about the whole thing.

I have another question for everyone- I've read that all birds, but especially conures, can do a complete 180 on their personalities once they hit sexual maturity. The conure will be a yr old on Feb 5th. Is he past the "danger zone?" Or are we still at risk for that possible personality flip?

I'm really appreciating everyone's input. Thank you everyone!

Sounds like kind of close quarters for a sun conure. I would still go with something quieter, such as a GCC or a budgie. No doubt they would also come to adore your exceptional daughter.

 

[alcmene]

I think it's incredibly important to help engender a love of animals and nature in children, utilizing whatever way speaks to them the most. Getting to children, when we're all at our most passionate in life, is the way we're going to save the rainforest, keep endangered species from going extinct, etc. Make those things dear to their hearts when they are young and that love will only grow as they get older. Trying to teach someone to care when they're already a jaded adult is too late.


If we wait until kids are mature enough that whatever they're wanting to get involved in will be a 0% inconvenience to us, then they'll be adults before that happens and their passions will have long since been extinguished.

 

[Birdman666]

i think it's incredibly important to help engender a love of animals and nature in children, utilizing whatever way speaks to them the most. Getting to children, when we're all at our most passionate in life, is the way we're going to save the rainforest, keep endangered species from going extinct, etc. Make those things dear to their hearts when they are young and that love will only grow as they get older. Trying to teach someone to care when they're already a jaded adult is too late.


If we wait until kids are mature enough that whatever they're wanting to get involved in will be a 0% inconvenience to us, then they'll be adults before that happens and their passions will have long since been extinguished.

more than that, there is no creature on this earth more empathic or sensitive than a parrot...

And working with them forces us to be more sensitive and empathic towards them.

 

[mtdoramike]

children have the attention span of a gnat. So after the new wears off in a couple of weeks, guess whose bird it will be. A Conure is a big investment for a 5 year old child. I say this because neither one of the parents are bird people from what I read. But you better learn to be because the bird will become your soon enough.

I disagree completely. I think it's unfair and untrue to lump all children together and act like they are all the same, and that their default is "flighty and irresponsible." Every child, just like every adult and every bird, is an individual.

If we were talking about my other daughter, for example.... well, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because there is no way we would have even considered getting her a bird (or any other animal) at age 5. She was one of those kids who is just a ball of energy. Never stopped moving. We went to the playground every single day as a necessity- if she didn't get a chance to run and burn off energy she would have driven us crazy.

My current 5 year old though, couldn't be more different from her sister. She learned to read very early and is comfortably reading chapter books by herself now. This weekend, we went to the library and she checked out Charlotte's Web. She spent the entire next 2 days reading it straight through. We're talking every waking moment of her life, sitting stock still, engrossed in her book. We had to drag her away to eat and bathe.

2 girls- raised the same way, in the same house, by the same parents and they couldn't possibly be more different. My older daughter is the most graceful ballerina in her whole dance school, plays the piano beautifully, is a force to be reckoned with on the tennis court- she's gifted in anything that requires her to move. If you tossed a ball to my younger daughter it would just bounce off the middle of her forehead while she floundered around trying to catch it. But she devours books. She loves to bird watch and can correctly identify over a hundred species of birds by song alone. She once had a squirrel come up and sit on her shoe because she sprinkled corn all around her and sat so quiet and so still for so long that it wasn't afraid and came right up to her to eat. They're both very special children- in their own different ways.

As her mother, who knows her better then anyone else on this earth, I can tell you with 100% confidence, my 5yo can handle a bird. Not just handle, but relish in it. She is calm, gentle, and infinitely patient. She is mature and responsible. She never even has to be reminded to take care of her betta fish (which she has had for 3 years, and if there is anything on this earth more boring then a betta fish, I surely don't know what it is)! Most importantly, she loves birds. She's been drawn to them since infancy. And it's true, birds aren't really my thing. I don't dislike them, but I've never wished for one either. But if they truly speak to her soul, that's something that I'm going to help nourish in her.

Then it sounds like you pretty much had your mind made up before asking the question. I will agree on one issue here that others have stated. If you are going to get a bird and you are not interested in a Parakeet or Cockatiel, get a bird that the entire family can enjoy and hopefully interact with because just on that outside chance she moves on to other things, you will have a family pet. But I wouldn't get the bird just for your daughter, I would get it as a family pet.

My daughter wanted a BIG dog after our poodle passed away. So I went looking for a Black Lab. Oh she was in love with the dog until we brought him home and when he didn't want to sleep with her in her room, but sat outside our bedroom door and scratched and whined most of the night until I let him in and up on the bed he jumped. Needless to say, he was a family dog and that was my intent when I got him because I know kids well enough to know they have short attention spans. She was 9 at that time. Wait until they discover boys

 

[alcmene]

I dont have my mind made up at all. Unless you mean getting her a bird vs not. In that case, yes- we're getting her a bird. What kind of bird is the question. From the research we've done, we were thinking a cockatiel would be a good choice. But she has fallen in love with a sun conure. So the ques is- do we stick with a tiel, or go with the sun? I can see strong pluses and minuses on both sides. So i wanted to get opinions from owners of both species. I've spoken to several people we know who have tiels. I dont know anyone with a sun. Hence, starting this thread.

 

[Birdman666]

Wait until they discover boys

Mine is 17. She "discovered boys" a few years ago...

She still plays with our greenwing macaw every day...

I have a friend that has her grandmother's DYH amazon. Grandma got the bird when she was 12 years old! Had her for 56 years. (Quite literally a lifetime companion animal.) When she died, her mother took the bird, and kept it for 19 years. When her daughter moved out, she took the bird with her as a companion. THAT BIRD IS NOW 91 YEARS OLD and has been in the family for three generations!!! Disrespecting that bird would be the same as disrespecting Grandma...

So, no, that is not an absolute. Frequently, yes. Always, no.

 

[alcmene]

That is so sweet i'm tearing up a little. I was very close to my grandparents and miss them so much i feel like i cant breathe if i try to talk about it too much, and they have been gone for many years. I can't even imagine what having her grandma's bird means to your friend. Especially since parrots are frequently such great mimics of their owners. Even though her grandma is gone, she still gets to hear her voice every day. What an unbelievably precious gift.

 

[Birdman666]

I have a sun conure story of my own to share... and it has to do with Sun Conure loyalty.

When I first got my little sun conure almost 20 years ago now, I didn't know a single thing about birds. He was given to me as a gift. So I did all my research after the fact. In the process of doing that, I ran into a situation where a man was trying to figure out how to save his Dad's sun conure's life...

His dad had died recently, the bird was very old, and had been his Dad's constant companion for about 30 years. One of the things he shared with us was that growing up he always hated that bird, because it sometimes seemed like his father loved the bird more than he loved anything else...

The bird was flighted, and was raised outside the cage. Even free flighted outside, he wouldn't leave his father's shoulder.

Then, one night, his father suffered a fatal heart attack. When they came to collect the body, the bird refused to leave the Dad, and was still perched on him. He attacked and bit people. So they called him to come get the bird.

Now the bird was in a cage for the first time in 30 years or more, and "his person" was gone. The bird lost it's will to live. It refused to eat or drink, and then systematically began tearing out it's own feathers.

Two days later, the bird died.

The man had the bird burried with his father, in the palm of his hands with just the little head sticking out, so that no one could see he had plucked.

We all agreed it was fitting...

His final words to me were that he always understood how much his dad loved the little bird, but he never really understood how much that little bird loved his dad...

SO, YOU SEE, I AM QUITE BIASED, AS I ALSO HAD A LITTLE SUN CONURE THAT LOVED THAT MUCH...

When they bond, they do.

So, I, personally would get the conure. But that doesn't guarantee that it will work. Because for all the reading, and all the preparation you may make, they have a mind of their own...

AND THAT GOES FOR CONURE OR TIEL. EITHER WAY, THEY CAN BE GOOD BIRDS IF HANDLED AND SOCIALIZED.

 

[Birdman666]

That is so sweet i'm tearing up a little. I was very close to my grandparents and miss them so much i feel like i cant breathe if i try to talk about it too much, and they have been gone for many years. I can't even imagine what having her grandma's bird means to your friend. Especially since parrots are frequently such great mimics of their owners. Even though her grandma is gone, she still gets to hear her voice every day. What an unbelievably precious gift.

I did parrot rescue for many years, and just saw TONS of poorly kept, poorly treated birds...

It's nice to see one that is treated like a "family heirloom!"

 

[alcmene]

I volunteered in rescue for many years and even worked at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary for awhile, so i know exactly what you're saying. I cant tell you the hundreds and thousands of dogs that end up surrendered because their owners got them without thinking it through (usually just purchased based on looks). Breeds that are exceptionally beautiful but also are total handfuls and NOT suitable for an inexperienced owner are the ones most frequently dumped (i'm looking at you dalmations and huskies!).

Reptile rescue is exceptionally heartbreaking because so many people unfortunately view reptiles as kind of disposable animals that dont really matter much. Additionally, most reptiles (even ones viewed as "beginner" herps like bearded dragons and ball pythons) have VERY specific habitat, lighting, humidity, and dietary requirements that are difficult to meet under captive conditions. So, herps surrendered to rescue are frequently past the point of rehabilitation. Or even worse, morons get sick of caring for them and just turn them loose outside- to either die horrible deaths or invade and destroy the ecosystem (like burmese pythons in Florida).

I will NEVER be one of those people. I refuse to just run out and get the sun because he's beautiful. I will not be the "dalmatian owner" of birds. I know it's impossible to 100% understand what it's going to be like to live with somebody (human or animal) without actually doing it. But i want to make the most informed decision possible.

My family raises and breeds champion Great Danes. In a big way. We go to Westminster every year. No one in my family would sell a Dane to a first time dog owner. Not for any price. They are huge. They are dominant. They are difficult to train. They can be a menace in the wrong hands. No matter how well intentioned the person, a Dane is not a suitable dog for a novice.

What i'm wondering is, are sun conures the same? From what i understand, cockatiels are kind of the golden retrievers of the bird world. Of course they require training, but it's generally not difficult as they are easy going and eager to please. They arent overly prone to screaming or biting- they would fit in to a variety of households.

My understanding of Suns is that they're a more med experience level. But could a dedicated novice still raise a nice bird? I'm willing to put the time/effort in to helping my daughter to train a great bird. But i dont want to get us in over our heads. The equivalent of a Dane for a beginner. That's not fair to me, my daughter, or the bird. I want to set us up for success from the beginning by making an appropriate species choice.

 

[Birdman666]

Birds don't work that way...

It has a lot to do with socialization, but it also has a lot to do with how the bird bonds with a person, and who it bonds with... and those can be variables that are not controlled.

I have a very large Greenwing macaw. (Three foot bird, half a ton of bite pressure. Plays like a puppy. Could probably bite clean through an arm off if she was so inclined.)
I have a large Red Fronted macaw.
I have the largest variety of african grey, who is actually almost as big as my red front.
I have two fairly large amazons. (Any one of these could remove fingers, or inflict degloving injuries.)

So, which bird routinely bites the crap out of me?

My girlfriend's 20 year old tiel!!

Why?! The bird hadn't been handled much in the past decade or so. (Her ex-husband kept it caged and unhandled for many years, before giving him back.)

If they aren't handled they don't stay tame.

If they are handled a lot. They do.

Conures are pair bond birds.
If allowed to overbond, they tend to.
When that happens, it's tough for anyone but their favorite person to handle them.

I think of conures as shrunken macaws... I really do. They are closely related both in personality and in their genetics.

tiels can be great birds, but like any bird, they need to be trained not to bite, and they need to be handled daily.

Either one would fit. Either one might not.

Pick your poison...

 

[Terry57]

Wait until they discover boys

Mine is 17. She "discovered boys" a few years ago...

She still plays with our greenwing macaw every day...

I have a friend that has her grandmother's DYH amazon. Grandma got the bird when she was 12 years old! Had her for 56 years. (Quite literally a lifetime companion animal.) When she died, her mother took the bird, and kept it for 19 years. When her daughter moved out, she took the bird with her as a companion. THAT BIRD IS NOW 91 YEARS OLD and has been in the family for three generations!!! Disrespecting that bird would be the same as disrespecting Grandma...

So, no, that is not an absolute. Frequently, yes. Always, no.

What an awesome story! I wish all birds could have that kind of loyalty and happy ending.

 

[alcmene]

That's the thing i'm most worried about. Like you said, the tiel bites all the time but it's because he hasnt been properly cared for. And i've been bitten by a tiel before. In my experience it pinches, but in a "yeowch! Why you little $&@" kind of way. Then you rub the red spot on your arm and go on about your day. If your macaw bit you, it would mean a trip to the ER.

I imagine that a sun could inflict a pretty nasty bite. Especially if it's a small child who's being chomped. I would hate for her to get a bad bite and sour what could have been a lifelong love of birds. Where as if a cockatiel bit her, it would smart and she'd whine about it for a few min a then move on. I dont want my daughter's pet to result in the necessity for reconstructive plastic surgery.

 

[Kalidasa]

That's the thing i'm most worried about. Like you said, the tiel bites all the time but it's because he hasnt been properly cared for. And i've been bitten by a tiel before. In my experience it pinches, but in a "yeowch! Why you little $&@" kind of way. Then you rub the red spot on your arm and go on about your day. If your macaw bit you, it would mean a trip to the ER.

I imagine that a sun could inflict a pretty nasty bite. Especially if it's a small child who's being chomped. I would hate for her to get a bad bite and sour what could have been a lifelong love of birds. Where as if a cockatiel bit her, it would smart and she'd whine about it for a few min a then move on. I dont want my daughter's pet to result in the necessity for reconstructive plastic surgery.

Agreed completely. That way everyone wins. A tiel will teach her respect to her pet, where something like a conure could teach her terror and pain. I commend you for coming on this forum and doing some research on the matter. Birds refuse to be taken lightly. Once she has an actual bird, any other past bird will be wiped from her memory. Her new bird will be the focal point and joy of her life, regardless of species. But it should be safe and secure for all involved...especially a bird who needs the security of a home that won't get rid of it because it didn't work out. When things go wrong with birds they go terribly wrong, disrupting every aspect of life. But when the right sort of bird is paired up with the right home, it's sheer joy