WARNING: Teflon, Non-stick Coatings, PFOA's and other coatings deadly to your Parrots

[Kentuckienne]

Oh, that’s a good reminder about the risks of all things tefloid. But we might needs more evidence, methinks. Be there any videos of the Resident Pirate drying his Fabio-like locks in the ocean breezes? Especially slo-mo, that would be nice.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/g1EJwzB0E1ZAs/200.webp?cid=6c09b952jeyuvbumao6dpkba9z0xv5jppw76pts5znmbv519&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=200.webp&ct=g

 

[GaleriaGila]

Bless ya, Wrenchie. I remember back when (I THINK it was) Kentuckienne who posted a pic of a regular aluminum pan she had burned up, accidentally of course. She is one of the most scrupulous and careful parronts I know, yet that happened. She made the point that this was why she never has ANY dangerous teflon around. Because that makes a terrible accident possible, even with the most attentive cook!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for reminding us of the pervasive nature of PFAs, Wrench! It’s an insidious problem. In a side note, the ‘ceramic’ nonstick pans are made using something called ‘Sol-Gel’ which is basically a silicon-based slurry with various other metals, acid or base, sprayed on a pan and heated to form a ceramic-like coating.

It isn’t as durable as Teflon and the pans usually only last a couple of years, vs 10 years for a quality Teflon pan. The most durable pans are stainless steel, cast iron, and carbon steel - or real enameled cast iron. The cast iron and carbon steel pans accumulate a layer of carbon molecules called seasoning which makes them nonstick (think graphite lubricant) and if they get overheated or over cleaned or rusted they can be fully restored. Stainless can be cleaned and scrubbed.

Some sources say that ‘ceramic’ pans release small amounts of silicon oil when heated, and when that’s all gone the pans lose their non-stick quality, but that seems unlikely to me. Here is a well-written article where the author has a different theory which is plausible: the topmost layer of the ceramic coating has special molecules which are eventually abraded away. Here is the link for the science-curious:

How Ceramic Pans Work and How to Restore Their Non-Stick Coating

I really don’t like the time and effort wasted in cleaning crudded-up frying pans, so I appreciate non-stick coatings. I have a small diameter Gotham ceramic pan that works well, and I was thinking…

economistwritingeveryday.com

I bought a toaster oven a couple years back with a stainless interior, not nonstick. I still set it up outside the house and used it several times at the highest setting to burn off whatever, and it seems safe. Same with space heaters and any appliance with a heat element - I keep it out of the house at first. So far so good.

Was this indeed youuuu, Side Chick?

 

[Kimmb615]

Kentuck, PFOA/PFOS coatings on heating elements in everything from crockpots to hair dryers to space heaters are a slippery slope. One might feel confident in using these appliances (after any manufacturing oils are burned off OUTSIDE the house). HOWEVER, should the built in cut-off circuit in the item fail or allow the temperature of the heating element to exceed design specs, they too could release the toxic fumes that are so deadly to our parrots. As I said earlier - I trust the Chinese manufacturers not at all, and if the article was made there...... We always hunt for items that specifically are found to not have any coatings on the heating elements, example Mueller brand toaster ovens. If you must use the CHina made item, make sure to never allow the item to shut off due to temperature issues. Hair dryers come to mind to me, as my thick and luxuriant hair often needs extensive dryer time, if I choose to use one. If I dont take a break in the middle, the hair dryer does shut itself off and needs cooling down time. As a result, I almost never use it.

Do you have a hair dryer you can recommend ?

 

[hiriki]

Do you have a hair dryer you can recommend ?

Personally, I let my hair air dry in a braid, so I won't claim to have personal experience. But, your best bet will be researching with the keywords "PFAS free." PFAS is a generic term that refers to the family of nonstick chemicals that people often refer to as "Teflon." They're also sometimes called "forever chemicals."

Lucky for us... if you can call it luck lol... PFAS "forever chemicals" have now been studied widely enough that health conscious consumers are trying to avoid them, as they aren't particularly safe for people, either! So usually someone out there somewhere has dedicated a blog article to researching PFAS free alternatives.

I found this blog post from someone who contacted multiple manufacturers for hair products: https://thefiltery.com/non-toxic-pfas-free-curling-iron-hair-straightener/

And this site that is dedicated to finding PFAS free products, although they are missing a section on hair care: https://pfascentral.org/pfas-free-products/

Anything you find, you might benefit from some healthy skepticism--unless they're a site you trust, you can use them as a jumping off point and then confirm with the manufacturer after you've found a product you'd like to buy.

 

[Talaya]

I would also like to add that I recently saw a video somewhere of a bird checking out their person proudly making dinner in their teflon free Ninja Air fryer. Thinking it was safe …

so I contacted Ninja to ask them what model was their Teflon free one as I had a “sensitive pet” (I wanted to know) their reply was
ALL of their air fryers contain PTFE which is toxic to birds. .. and I didn’t even tell them I had a bird….

 

[Talaya]

Do you have a hair dryer you can recommend ?

Hi, I just thought I might help, I use a Dyson Airwrap occasionally, it uses coada effect to dry, rather than a harsh heat. Yes it has a heated airstream, but on 3 settings, the lowest is just about Luke warm so shouldn’t overheat up any chemicals. I can’t find anything about if there are coatings inside it. But I did read their AM09 heaters do not contain any. So maybe their wraps may not either.

 

[Catlady53]

Most (but not all) parrot owners are aware of the toxic effects of these 'wonder' coatings, but I wanted to post a specific thread on this, for all to see.
Teflon and a whole barrel of alternate coatings, going under a large variety of trade names, emit toxic to parrots fumes when they are heated. Cookware is where most folks expect to find these coatings - pots, pans, baking sheets, etc, bu they also are used in a myriad of other applications around the home.
They are used on:

• Microwave popcorn bags
• Heating elements in a wide array of products, like hair dryers, crock pots, coffee makers, etc Used to provide corrosion protection to the metal element.
• Stain resistant/proof clothing, fabrics used on furniture, even a spray on version you can apply
• Oven coatings, triggered by the 'self cleaning cycle' which goes to crazy high temperatures to burn off crud
• The list of applications gets bigger every day

So these chemicals are not that toxic when used within their designed temperature range; the problem is when they are heated above that. Think about how many times you have burned your food by overheating, or over zapped the popcorn in the microwave, or over used the hair dryer to the point where it shuts off itself. Its then the toxic fumes are really emitted and are deadly. We read about the death of parrots several times a year here on ParrotForums, and that is just a small number of birds compared to the overall number of owners who are not members.

THese chemicals, collectively known in industry as PFOS and PFOA have also recently become known as "Forever Chemicals". By their very chemical nature, they are inert (non-reactive) to almost everything, which makes them ideal for the applications above. However they also can't be digested by living creatures, like us, and are readily retained in living tissue, and they don't breakdown in soil - ever! They are so pervasive in use that newborn babys have been found to have these already in their bodies at birth! It is thought that more then 99.8% of all living creatures already have some amount of these chemicals in their bodies and that keeps getting higher! It is unknown what the long term effects of having these in living tissue are. Industry is just now starting to realize the problem and taking (baby) steps to reduce their use.

Be aware of these chemicals in your home, especially on cookware. Understand that manufacturers are primarily concerned with the effects on HUMANS, not parrots, and claims of safety are geared to people, and then to "pets", meaning dogs/cats. Very rarely are they studied against the effects on birds. And, in industry, changing just one molecule in these highly complex polyfluorene based chemicals allows the makers to say "Teflon Free". It is still in the PFOA/PFOS family, just not that specific chemistry that DuPont registers under the name "Teflon". Just because a pot rr other cookware does not say Teflon does not mean it is safe. Any non-stick coating must be considered as un-safe for your parrot.

How does one know if your parrot has been affected by these unsafe cookwares? I have posted here several times concerning my amazon Sonny, he’s been sick for over one month, his labs are within normal limits, X-ray normal, but he quit talking and stays in his cage, he is normally flying all around the house and always by my side, I can’t leave the room without him following me wherever I go. As I said over one month ago this all changed, nodes not seem to have respiratory issues, still eats and poops fine. Should I be asking vet for more testing and please help me suggest what I should test him for. I was reading the cookware article and I have made popcorn in silicon and have fed him some. How do I test for that? Would he have respiratory issues. What can cause him to be so lethargic for this long? He used to talk nonstop, always having the last word with whoever was talking. Should I test for asper even though there are no respiratory issues? Could he have swallowed something and it got caught in syrinx? He has made some sounds sporadically after being alone for a few hours. I’ve put him in a warm room to see if that helps. I’ve turned air conditioning off. Is there anything else I can test him for? Please help Sonny!

 

[Jcatz]

Most (but not all) parrot owners are aware of the toxic effects of these 'wonder' coatings, but I wanted to post a specific thread on this, for all to see.
Teflon and a whole barrel of alternate coatings, going under a large variety of trade names, emit toxic to parrots fumes when they are heated. Cookware is where most folks expect to find these coatings - pots, pans, baking sheets, etc, bu they also are used in a myriad of other applications around the home.
They are used on:

• Microwave popcorn bags
• Heating elements in a wide array of products, like hair dryers, crock pots, coffee makers, etc Used to provide corrosion protection to the metal element.
• Stain resistant/proof clothing, fabrics used on furniture, even a spray on version you can apply
• Oven coatings, triggered by the 'self cleaning cycle' which goes to crazy high temperatures to burn off crud
• The list of applications gets bigger every day

So these chemicals are not that toxic when used within their designed temperature range; the problem is when they are heated above that. Think about how many times you have burned your food by overheating, or over zapped the popcorn in the microwave, or over used the hair dryer to the point where it shuts off itself. Its then the toxic fumes are really emitted and are deadly. We read about the death of parrots several times a year here on ParrotForums, and that is just a small number of birds compared to the overall number of owners who are not members.

THese chemicals, collectively known in industry as PFOS and PFOA have also recently become known as "Forever Chemicals". By their very chemical nature, they are inert (non-reactive) to almost everything, which makes them ideal for the applications above. However they also can't be digested by living creatures, like us, and are readily retained in living tissue, and they don't breakdown in soil - ever! They are so pervasive in use that newborn babys have been found to have these already in their bodies at birth! It is thought that more then 99.8% of all living creatures already have some amount of these chemicals in their bodies and that keeps getting higher! It is unknown what the long term effects of having these in living tissue are. Industry is just now starting to realize the problem and taking (baby) steps to reduce their use.

Be aware of these chemicals in your home, especially on cookware. Understand that manufacturers are primarily concerned with the effects on HUMANS, not parrots, and claims of safety are geared to people, and then to "pets", meaning dogs/cats. Very rarely are they studied against the effects on birds. And, in industry, changing just one molecule in these highly complex polyfluorene based chemicals allows the makers to say "Teflon Free". It is still in the PFOA/PFOS family, just not that specific chemistry that DuPont registers under the name "Teflon". Just because a pot rr other cookware does not say Teflon does not mean it is safe. Any non-stick coating must be considered as un-safe for your parrot.

Hi, I wasn't sure how to pay this but their is a product called Stove Guard and it's made from Teflon. It's to protect your stove so you don't make a mess. I emailed them and ask if it was safe for parrots or was it made of Teflon. They replied back and said it would not be safe and is made of Teflon.

 

[Gypsy LittleFoot]

Be careful of those cooking sprays they are full of aerosoles and stuff which aren't good for humans or birds either. Oil is the best stuff to use

my family recently bought AVOCADO cooking oil...I'm ready to move now lol. Can fumes from avacado oil kill our feathery friends?

 

[Shoegoo]

Is there a list of house whole cleaners that we should avoid? Maybe someone could star a list because I am clue less.

 

[wrench13]

my family recently bought AVOCADO cooking oil...I'm ready to move now lol. Can fumes from avacado oil kill our feathery friends?

Seeing as avocado is poisonous for parrots, I would not use anything related to them. Especially something thats going to produce fumes from volatized oils.

 

[Talaya]

Is there a list of house whole cleaners that we should avoid? Maybe someone could star a list because I am clue less.

I’ve never seen a list, there are thousands across the world, many people are from different countries and I think it would be logistically impossible to create a list for the world.
However, definately not any aerosol spray, bleach & CFCs are toxic any derivative of Bella Donna plant, or avacado plant, anything that makes YOU cough, catch your breath or look away. EG: I don’t use the brand ‘Method’ in his room, only the bathroom and with the window open door shut. Also some essential oils and perfumes are toxic.
Around my bird and in his room which is my lounge I only use bird safe disinfectant, hot water. Lemon and vinegar.
If I need to use a spray, it’s not an aerosol. And I cover the spray with the cloth before pulling the trigger. (Unperfumed Dettol for my dining table) .
Hope this helps

 

[Beeker]

I would also like to add that I recently saw a video somewhere of a bird checking out their person proudly making dinner in their teflon free Ninja Air fryer. Thinking it was safe …

so I contacted Ninja to ask them what model was their Teflon free one as I had a “sensitive pet” (I wanted to know) their reply was
ALL of their air fryers contain PTFE which is toxic to birds. .. and I didn’t even tell them I had a bird….

I've owned a number of the Ninjas and currently use the Ninja grill on practically a daily basis. No impact on my Yellow Headed Amazon who very much enjoys the steak and salmon I give him from the unit and has for years. My information about PFOAs and PTFEs is different than yours. I'll add that I believe the old Teflon worries of the past have been largely superseded by new tech. I've purchased ceramic pans, rice cookers, etc. sans PFOAs, with no effect.

 

[texsize]

I've owned a number of the Ninjas and currently use the Ninja grill on practically a daily basis. No impact on my Yellow Headed Amazon who very much enjoys the steak and salmon I give him from the unit and has for years. My information about PFOAs and PTFEs is different than yours. I'll add that I believe the old Teflon worries of the past have been largely superseded by new tech. I've purchased ceramic pans, rice cookers, etc. sans PFOAs, with no effect.

It was my understanding that the newer versions of the ninja air fryer (they look more like a traditional toaster oven) is all stainless steel except for the baking pan. They also sell a separate pan that IS teflon but doesn’t come with it.

All the same I ran it at full temperature outside the house for 15 minutes the first time.
I also don’t exceed 400 deg. F my understanding is that teflon is safe so long as you don’t get close to 450 deg. F.

Still and all care must be taken to keep the sucker clean.
If you don’t it will smoke and stink and no smoke of any kind is good for birds.
I have had to stop cooking cuz I had forgotten to clean my air fryer before use.

The oils you use when cooking can make a big difference too.

 

[Talaya]

I've owned a number of the Ninjas and currently use the Ninja grill on practically a daily basis. No impact on my Yellow Headed Amazon who very much enjoys the steak and salmon I give him from the unit and has for years. My information about PFOAs and PTFEs is different than yours. I'll add that I believe the old Teflon worries of the past have been largely superseded by new tech. I've purchased ceramic pans, rice cookers, etc. sans PFOAs, with no effect.

Hi Beeker, it’s so good to hear your birdies have suffered no ill effect. I too use the odd teflon coated pan in cooking because that’s all I have been able to get here, but that doesn’t deflect from the fact they these products contain chemicals which ‘can’ harm or kill your bird. It’s a risk we take with the knowledge of it ‘might’ happen.
I do what I can to reduce the danger.for example I know that chemicals can be given off into to air if incorrectly heated, so I made the decision to not risk it and not to buy an airfryer after contacting Ninja directly.
I’m in the UK and some models are not available here. ( I too had heard of a stainless steel Ninja)

For all readers of this post.. here is Ninjas UK customer service phone number should you need any clarification on your UK model or future purchase. 0800 862 0453 or you can email them through their support page.

https://support.ninjakitchen.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360013766880-Contact-Us

 

[wrench13]

I am sorry Beeker, but there is just facts in this case. Teflon and the whole PFOS, PFAS family of chemical coatings release fumes that are deadly to birds, when heated above their 'safe' range. That is a fact, not contestable. How it gets heated above that range is open for discussion, whether by accident or poor construction or design, bad quality control of the chemicals themselves or whatever - those are causes. The fact that they are released has been proved time and time again, unfortunately by the death of parrot companions.

Another side of that family of chemicals is that they are considered "Forever Chemicals" because by their very nature they do not react with the vast majority of chemicals or natural processes like decomposition. Once ingested, living things have no way to break them down and they build up in living tissue over time. It is unknown at this time what the effect of this has. That too is fact.

Its so important to make sure that facts are presented in open forums like this and that opinions are stated to be such, lest our members get the wrong idea about something that can seriously affect their parrots life.

 

[rheashard2]

Back about 1980 I contemplated getting a parrot. I did a lot of reading. My family thought I was becoming unnecessarily paranoid about a parrot safe environment. I donated or gave away all cookware except for my bread maker! Most cookwate is stainless or cast iron. I prefer cast iron because properly seasoned it's as good as nonstick. It also has benefit for becoming heirloom and not throw away like nonstick. Sadly or not I avoid silicone. Not for its 'max temp' use but for the additives that can become unseen, unknown fumes at lower temps. Based on these posts I am in right place for this paranoia.