Two Green Cheeked Conures, need advice

[kristlynne]

Hi everyone, thanks for the warm welcome. I’ve been visiting this forum for a couple years now but never actually posted/joined. I have a situation now with my birds and I could really use some sound advice. First I got Pickle (male 3 yr old GCC), and about a year later I got Enid (turned out to be male 1.5 yr GCC). Basically it is worst case scenario with a second bird—they can’t be out together because they try to seriously injure each other, they have separate cages, and they both think I’m their mate and are possessive of me and my attention. Making the situation worse, where I could take Pickle out of his cage multiple times a day while I was working, I don’t have time to take them both out individually. After work, they both get out, but not for the hours they deserve since I’m dividing up the time. I've tried tons of bonding exercises - taking turns doing tricks/getting treats, proximity training, positive reinforcement. What's weird is that they are totally in sync in their individual cages --talking and responding to each other all day, but when they can reach each other it's aggressive.

They each have their own behavioral issues too. Enid is not an easy bird to work with, I still say "she" but Enid's DNA test said "she" is male. She had a severe infection when I got her, she's healthy now, but has balance issues that make her particularly mouthy and some of the training tips I've learned from Barbara Heidenreich that worked for Pickle (hard chewing, take away hands), really freak her out because she has all of that memory of falling over and over. When I try to remove my hands she holds on for dear life. I try to distract her with other things, toys, have her do a trick etc; but she pretty much snaps back into the super hard chewing on fingers every 5 seconds or so. She has this kind of distracted frenetic energy and sort of jolts around, so I do wonder if there are some minor nervous system/cognitive things too from having the infection so young. She is an absolute sweetheart, but it's difficult. She also just really wants to be on my hands or up on my shoulder by my face the entire time she's out. I try to keep her away from my face and shoulders because it doesn't feel safe, and then she gets back on my hands. So it kind of just goes on and on in a circle.

Pickle is super jealous. He always gets to come out, eat, etc; first, but he's possessive and switches between wanting head scratches/love and biting me unpredictably. He attacks me when my partner is nearby, and stalks him too. They used to have a good relationship, but one time when I was away Pickle bit him hard on the face, and he's afraid of the bird now. I understand how hard it can be to trust a bird again after that, but it does mean I'm on my own with handling them.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but the experience of having them out has been so difficult lately that even though I make sure I do it, I'm not looking forward to it. I've considered rehoming Enid, but I can't bear the idea of someone finding her difficult to work with and neglecting her.

Anyway, I'm not an experienced bird owner. I think I got lucky with Pickle and thought I could handle two birds, but I'm really struggling. I feel like I'm failing as a bird mom. Please help.

 

[wrench13]

Hoo boy, text book case of what can happen when you add an additional bird to a flock. I wish we could compile all stories like this into one thread, illustrating what can happen. Yes, sometimes things go all rosey and peachy. every one loves everyone. A lot of times they don't. None of which helps you now though.

My take: Parrots that have not learned NO BITE especially on faces have no business on shoulders. Period. They lose that privilege. And THE method for teaching no biting is shunning, which is how parrots in the wild chastise unruly members. See below. If they are flighted, and just fly off or back to you when this method is used, consider light clipping until the lesson is learned. Feathers grow back. Conurs, esp the green cheek family, are nippy by nature, but will learn if shunning is applied rigorously and EVERY TIME.

Biting, whether intentional or not, just over preening your skin or actually taking chunks of meat out - all are PAINFULL! In the wild that sort of behavior is not tolerated by the flock. They ostracize flock members who continue to act like that. We call it 'Shunning'. This WILL work, but needs to be done correctly to get the message across and it needs to be done IMMEDIATELY so the parrot can associate the bite with the shunning action. And it needs to happen every time and with anyone involved with the parrot.

When the bite or over preening occurs:

• Say in a forceful but not shouting voice "No Bite" or other endearments.
• Immediately place the parrot on a nearby, handy chairback. NOT the cage (that would only teach the parrot to bite when he wants to go back to his cage).
• Turn your back to him and ignore him for 1 minute. No peeking, no talking about or too him, NADA. NO eye contact. No less or the message is lost, no more or the bird will not associate the action with the bite.
• After a minute you can try to re-establish contact.

Rinse, repeat as needed. Most parrots get the message after a few times, some may need more. Also very important - make sure the bite is not your fault. Annoying your parrot, asking him to step up when he is otherwise preoccupied with eating or playing, bothering him during known moody times like mating season, or ignoring the warnings and body language of your parrot - these are bites that you deserve! Learn, and be a better parront !!

 

[kme3388]

I’m very sorry for the outcome that you’ve had with getting another parrot. I have a sun & jenday that are bonded. They still let me handle them on their terms. However they aren’t “nice” like they used to be. I can no longer stick my hand in their cage (nest) without them attacking. They have to come out on their own to say hi. There are down falls to parrots getting along (bonding) as well.

I could never get rid of any of my parrots myself. They will all be with me until they pass away, or I do. My parrots are my baby’s. I can understand why they get rehomed all of the time. I don’t highly recommend them as pets. I try to educate people about parrots so they don’t end up with a pet they cannot handle. They are beautiful & captivating but parrots are high maintenance. If you don’t interact with them consistently I feel like they really do go back to a wild like state.

There is great advice above! Conures are very nippy as stated above. I myself don’t care if I get bit. Yes it hurts, but I’ll live. I think this is why I rarely get bit by parrots. I have no fear of them. My husband is scared of parrots (especially the larger ones). They have a tendency to take advantage of that. My macaw tried to fake bite me today. I didn’t flench, and basically laughed. I clean his cage with him in it even though I was told he can be territorial. I have yet to be bit, and it may happen. I am always cool, calm, and collected before handling my parrots. They are pro’s at reading emotions.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Oh, good glory! I feel ya. You are so loving and energetic. Bless ya!
Above advice is SPOT ON!

Or...

Well, here is my admittedly weakling, ineffective, pathetic advice. Indulge all their impulses. Let them introduce absolute chaos into your life, and love them to death. This is what I have done.

And...

Pay as little attention to me as you can.
But if worse comes to worse... love 'em.. Do your best.
No bird could ask for more.

I'm glad you're here.

 

[Beepers]

Hi everyone, thanks for the warm welcome. I’ve been visiting this forum for a couple years now but never actually posted/joined. I have a situation now with my birds and I could really use some sound advice. First I got Pickle (male 3 yr old GCC), and about a year later I got Enid (turned out to be male 1.5 yr GCC). Basically it is worst case scenario with a second bird—they can’t be out together because they try to seriously injure each other, they have separate cages, and they both think I’m their mate and are possessive of me and my attention. Making the situation worse, where I could take Pickle out of his cage multiple times a day while I was working, I don’t have time to take them both out individually. After work, they both get out, but not for the hours they deserve since I’m dividing up the time. I've tried tons of bonding exercises - taking turns doing tricks/getting treats, proximity training, positive reinforcement. What's weird is that they are totally in sync in their individual cages --talking and responding to each other all day, but when they can reach each other it's aggressive.

They each have their own behavioral issues too. Enid is not an easy bird to work with, I still say "she" but Enid's DNA test said "she" is male. She had a severe infection when I got her, she's healthy now, but has balance issues that make her particularly mouthy and some of the training tips I've learned from Barbara Heidenreich that worked for Pickle (hard chewing, take away hands), really freak her out because she has all of that memory of falling over and over. When I try to remove my hands she holds on for dear life. I try to distract her with other things, toys, have her do a trick etc; but she pretty much snaps back into the super hard chewing on fingers every 5 seconds or so. She has this kind of distracted frenetic energy and sort of jolts around, so I do wonder if there are some minor nervous system/cognitive things too from having the infection so young. She is an absolute sweetheart, but it's difficult. She also just really wants to be on my hands or up on my shoulder by my face the entire time she's out. I try to keep her away from my face and shoulders because it doesn't feel safe, and then she gets back on my hands. So it kind of just goes on and on in a circle.

Pickle is super jealous. He always gets to come out, eat, etc; first, but he's possessive and switches between wanting head scratches/love and biting me unpredictably. He attacks me when my partner is nearby, and stalks him too. They used to have a good relationship, but one time when I was away Pickle bit him hard on the face, and he's afraid of the bird now. I understand how hard it can be to trust a bird again after that, but it does mean I'm on my own with handling them.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but the experience of having them out has been so difficult lately that even though I make sure I do it, I'm not looking forward to it. I've considered rehoming Enid, but I can't bear the idea of someone finding her difficult to work with and neglecting her.

Anyway, I'm not an experienced bird owner. I think I got lucky with Pickle and thought I could handle two birds, but I'm really struggling. I feel like I'm failing as a bird mom. Please help.

My heart goes out to you, I can tell that you’re a kind person. While I’m not a fan of rehoming, it sounds like you have your hands full. If you can rehome one bird to a good home, do that if it’s going to protect your sanity. Sounds like you might have some territorial issues going on. If you’re not feeling safe, get an oversized hoodie that’s thick enough to protect your skin. Put the hood up if needed, pull the arms down over your hands. While there are many training techniques, the best one: do not allow your bird to hurt you, it’s a bad habit. Simply move your hand out of the way, and/or cover up. This will resolve a lot of problems. Get your bird involved in other activities. Maybe a favorite toy, a piece of millet. My bird is obsessed with my clear coffee cup. Likes to tap his beak on it, chase the cooled liquid around from the outside. Tries to hold the handle, and plays underneath it. Every bird is different, find out what your bird prefers. Distraction is your best friend as you rebuild your relationship.

 

[kristlynne]

Hoo boy, text book case of what can happen when you add an additional bird to a flock. I wish we could compile all stories like this into one thread, illustrating what can happen. Yes, sometimes things go all rosey and peachy. every one loves everyone. A lot of times they don't. None of which helps you now though.

My take: Parrots that have not learned NO BITE especially on faces have no business on shoulders. Period. They lose that privilege. And THE method for teaching no biting is shunning, which is how parrots in the wild chastise unruly members. See below. If they are flighted, and just fly off or back to you when this method is used, consider light clipping until the lesson is learned. Feathers grow back. Conurs, esp the green cheek family, are nippy by nature, but will learn if shunning is applied rigorously and EVERY TIME.

Biting, whether intentional or not, just over preening your skin or actually taking chunks of meat out - all are PAINFULL! In the wild that sort of behavior is not tolerated by the flock. They ostracize flock members who continue to act like that. We call it 'Shunning'. This WILL work, but needs to be done correctly to get the message across and it needs to be done IMMEDIATELY so the parrot can associate the bite with the shunning action. And it needs to happen every time and with anyone involved with the parrot.

When the bite or over preening occurs:

• Say in a forceful but not shouting voice "No Bite" or other endearments.
• Immediately place the parrot on a nearby, handy chairback. NOT the cage (that would only teach the parrot to bite when he wants to go back to his cage).
• Turn your back to him and ignore him for 1 minute. No peeking, no talking about or too him, NADA. NO eye contact. No less or the message is lost, no more or the bird will not associate the action with the bite.
• After a minute you can try to re-establish contact.

Rinse, repeat as needed. Most parrots get the message after a few times, some may need more. Also very important - make sure the bite is not your fault. Annoying your parrot, asking him to step up when he is otherwise preoccupied with eating or playing, bothering him during known moody times like mating season, or ignoring the warnings and body language of your parrot - these are bites that you deserve! Learn, and be a better parront !!

Hi @wrench13, thank you so much for your advice about shunning. I've been practicing with both the birds and it seems to be helping. Pickle did test me a few times, and also tried to fly to me, but I managed to dodge him every time and he's starting to get the message. Enid is very smart, so she decided that when I shun her she'll fly over to Pickle's cage and harass him, so I have to intervene. I'm going to try to practice with her in a different room and see how that goes. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to my post. Will keep this forum updated on my progress!

 

[kristlynne]

I’m very sorry for the outcome that you’ve had with getting another parrot. I have a sun & jenday that are bonded. They still let me handle them on their terms. However they aren’t “nice” like they used to be. I can no longer stick my hand in their cage (nest) without them attacking. They have to come out on their own to say hi. There are down falls to parrots getting along (bonding) as well.

I could never get rid of any of my parrots myself. They will all be with me until they pass away, or I do. My parrots are my baby’s. I can understand why they get rehomed all of the time. I don’t highly recommend them as pets. I try to educate people about parrots so they don’t end up with a pet they cannot handle. They are beautiful & captivating but parrots are high maintenance. If you don’t interact with them consistently I feel like they really do go back to a wild like state.

There is great advice above! Conures are very nippy as stated above. I myself don’t care if I get bit. Yes it hurts, but I’ll live. I think this is why I rarely get bit by parrots. I have no fear of them. My husband is scared of parrots (especially the larger ones). They have a tendency to take advantage of that. My macaw tried to fake bite me today. I didn’t flench, and basically laughed. I clean his cage with him in it even though I was told he can be territorial. I have yet to be bit, and it may happen. I am always cool, calm, and collected before handling my parrots. They are pro’s at reading emotions.

@kme3388 Yes, they are pros at reading our emotions! I try not to react to the bites as much as possible. Usually they aren't too bad, but they definitely throw a wrench in our relationship. Good reminder that bonded parrots have their challenges as well. Appreciate you responding.

 

[kristlynne]

Oh, good glory! I feel ya. You are so loving and energetic. Bless ya!
Above advice is SPOT ON!

Or...

Well, here is my admittedly weakling, ineffective, pathetic advice. Indulge all their impulses. Let them introduce absolute chaos into your life, and love them to death. This is what I have done.

And...

Pay as little attention to me as you can.
But if worse comes to worse... love 'em.. Do your best.
No bird could ask for more.

I'm glad you're here.

I love this reply @GaleriaGila! Thanks for responding

 

[kristlynne]

My heart goes out to you, I can tell that you’re a kind person. While I’m not a fan of rehoming, it sounds like you have your hands full. If you can rehome one bird to a good home, do that if it’s going to protect your sanity. Sounds like you might have some territorial issues going on. If you’re not feeling safe, get an oversized hoodie that’s thick enough to protect your skin. Put the hood up if needed, pull the arms down over your hands. While there are many training techniques, the best one: do not allow your bird to hurt you, it’s a bad habit. Simply move your hand out of the way, and/or cover up. This will resolve a lot of problems. Get your bird involved in other activities. Maybe a favorite toy, a piece of millet. My bird is obsessed with my clear coffee cup. Likes to tap his beak on it, chase the cooled liquid around from the outside. Tries to hold the handle, and plays underneath it. Every bird is different, find out what your bird prefers. Distraction is your best friend as you rebuild your relationship.

Thanks @Beepers, rehoming Enid would truly be a last resort, and I will only do it if I've tried everything else. I still hold out hope that the birds will learn not to attack each other. That' honestly one of the biggest challenges. I guess I wonder whether it's even reasonable to expect two male birds to ever get along? Distraction is key! thanks for responding