Today's the day-long story

[miloslave]

For the life of me I can not remember where I read this....but apparently a lot of parronts buy their exsisting bird a new cage shortly after getting a new bird....Apparently it is a thing, lol. (I did the same thing). The thing is that many times they then associate the new cage (where he does not feel as safe in yet) with the new bird and blames the new bird for the loss of the feeling of security.

Luckily in my case I searched quite a while for the right cage so it took a while for the cage to arrive, the association was not made.

If this holds true, and you still have the old cage, maybe transferring him back to his old cage for a while might break the association and stop the behaviour. You might have to wait a month or two before introducing the new cage again though.

 

[Constantine]

she s beautiful!!! Congratulations!!

 

[Minimaker]

SShe's literally digging dry skin off in flakes. I tried giving her a light spray of warm water with a spray bottle and she most definitely didn't like that. She acted like I tried to shoot her, poor thing. I won't try that again, but she's suffering from itchy dry skin for sure.

Is it dry skin, or just pinnie dander? Young macaws seem to always have a million pin feathers.

It's dry skin. Even her face and feet are dry and itchy. She's scratching a lot. No sign of scaling or anything more nefarious at work, just dry winter skin I think. I was going to pick up some of this stuff-does anyone use it? Red palm oil is in it-I think I've seen people here talking about giving that to their birds: Avix Healx Sunshine Factor Prem Organic Red Palm Oil 16oz | eBay

Otherwise she's good, eating and seems happy as long as we don't try to touch her. She's still very fearful of people in general. I don't get it, she acts nothing like the birds from that place I've seen in videos here. They seemed so well socialized and happy with people-this girl is afraid of people and wants nothing to do with them at all. Another thing that bothers me is there was no response after we got her and I emailed them. No aftercare at all. They told me her hatch date was different than the one on the hatch certificate they sent with her, which says 4/03/14 so she's older than they first told me by email when I was trying to decide if I wanted to buy from them or not. And it lists her hatch place as Florida. How could she have been bred by them if their facility is in Delaware? Nothing this paper says makes any sense based on the convos I had with them previous to buying. It makes me wonder about them now, because this experience seems so different than other people's I read before here.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Sailor was most likely hatched in FL and then shipped to the store at a very young age for hand rearing. Bird Paradise (another enormous store here in New Jersey) does the same thing. They get parrots by 'bulk' from mostly FL.

I'm sorry to hear you felt mislead. I'd feel the same way. She probably did not receive the necessary socialization, so it will just take her a bit longer to warm up to you guys.

I use either coconut oil or the palm oil for my birdy bread, here is the recipe: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/28298-my-birdie-bread-macs-love-these.html

 

[veruka1973]

First...Beautiful girl! Second...please teach me your skills with creating that amazing enclosure!!!

I at one point recently wanted to buy some lorikeets from a breeder in Florida, I looked at their website etc and something just didn't feel right to me, it felt as if they didn't actually breed the birds, I got the impression they bought baby parrots in bulk at a very young age and finished handfeeding then sold them, so the thing that kept me from buying and having one shipped was I really felt that if that is what they are doing it would be more assembly line feedings with very little socialization for each bird.

I opted not to get a lori afterall and went with a blue and gold baby, I could have gotten her cheaper online from one of those bird farm places but I opted to drive a few hours and see the breeders in person the people I got her from breed over 50 varieties of parrots but they are handfed in small "batches" if you know what I mean, I felt very comfortable taking her on 3 feedings a day, he did not push for that I actually had to request it and I did not ask for a discount on price, he wasn't selling them that way I just preferred to finish the process myself.

Everything thus far has gone very well, she has been sweet and social from day 1 with everyone in the house.

Even though your baby is a bit skittish if I were you I would just keep doing what you're already doing and I am sure she will come around. I know how it feels though to get a bird and figure out after the fact that maybe the seller wasn't so honest with you, it is a frustrating feeling, especially when they refuse to answer emails or your questions. Been there.

 

[Birdman666]

Sailor was most likely hatched in FL and then shipped to the store at a very young age for hand rearing. Bird Paradise (another enormous store here in New Jersey) does the same thing. They get parrots by 'bulk' from mostly FL.

I'm sorry to hear you felt mislead. I'd feel the same way. She probably did not receive the necessary socialization, so it will just take her a bit longer to warm up to you guys.

I use either coconut oil or the palm oil for my birdy bread, here is the recipe: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/28298-my-birdie-bread-macs-love-these.html

Exactly, broker bird.

The bird's health was taken care of, but the socialization wasn't there...

 

[Minimaker]

You know I really don't know who to trust anymore-the local guy pulled some very iffy things too over the course of talking about getting a bird from him. We caught him in some potential lies-which I'm sure he usually gets away with because he has one random buyer at a time and people probably don't talk back and forth over what he says. It just so happens by some twist of luck another guy my husband works with was buying one from him and he was unaware of the connection. He went up several times to meet and feed his bird-only to get a call saying his bird flew into a mirror and died. I had it wrong, I thought the people already had him home and it happened in their house. My husband told me the story by text and I was confused-it happened at the breeder's house instead. So anyway, he said he would put that guy's deposit down on another upcoming baby that would be ready in a month. He had told me when we talked he wouldn't have any ready until 5 months from now. He's telling that guy he'll have on ready in a month because he has a set of babies he's hand feeding. He told me he only had some sitting on eggs and none were hatched. After he told that guy his baby had died, he called me the next day and said he had a breeding partner who had a baby available and he had it at his house if I wanted it. If that was true, why didn't he say so before? He would have lost my sale either way because I told him I wasn't going to wait that long to buy one. I almost think the guy saw the potential for two sales instead of just one and tried to sell me the other guy's bird. Everyone here had a hard time believing a baby could get the speed up inside a house to fly into a mirror and break it's neck. I really wonder if he was honest about that. It was such suspicious timing, to call me the day after he told that guy he lost his bird and would have to wait on another one. He also told us that my hunch was right, he was pretty drunk every time he went up there to see his bird.

So I feel like every where I turn there is no honest place to buy from that puts the bird's well-being over a quick sale. I wish Wendy's Parrots had greenwings available at the time I was looking. But I guess Sailor might have ended up in a worse situation-at least I'm bound and determined to figure this out. She's never going to suffer because of my incompetence. I'll figure this out no matter what it takes. Someone less willing to put the work in might have gotten rid of her or shut her away and forgot about her due to her fear and willingness to bite.

 

[Amanda_Bennett]

SShe's literally digging dry skin off in flakes. I tried giving her a light spray of warm water with a spray bottle and she most definitely didn't like that. She acted like I tried to shoot her, poor thing. I won't try that again, but she's suffering from itchy dry skin for sure.

Is it dry skin, or just pinnie dander? Young macaws seem to always have a million pin feathers.

It's dry skin. Even her face and feet are dry and itchy. She's scratching a lot. No sign of scaling or anything more nefarious at work, just dry winter skin I think. I was going to pick up some of this stuff-does anyone use it? Red palm oil is in it-I think I've seen people here talking about giving that to their birds: Avix Healx Sunshine Factor Prem Organic Red Palm Oil 16oz | eBay

Otherwise she's good, eating and seems happy as long as we don't try to touch her. She's still very fearful of people in general. I don't get it, she acts nothing like the birds from that place I've seen in videos here. They seemed so well socialized and happy with people-this girl is afraid of people and wants nothing to do with them at all. Another thing that bothers me is there was no response after we got her and I emailed them. No aftercare at all. They told me her hatch date was different than the one on the hatch certificate they sent with her, which says 4/03/14 so she's older than they first told me by email when I was trying to decide if I wanted to buy from them or not. And it lists her hatch place as Florida. How could she have been bred by them if their facility is in Delaware? Nothing this paper says makes any sense based on the convos I had with them previous to buying. It makes me wonder about them now, because this experience seems so different than other people's I read before here.

I put organic red palm oil in Zilla's chop mixes, and she seems to really like it and I have noticed an improvement in her skin and feather condition.

 

[thekarens]

Our local bird shop both breeds their own and gets them from local breeders and hand feeds them. I don't see this as a problem if they are raising them right. Zoe is a perfect example. We got her at 14 months and it was pretty obvious she loved everyone.

 

[Minimaker]

Our local bird shop both breeds their own and gets them from local breeders and hand feeds them. I don't see this as a problem if they are raising them right. Zoe is a perfect example. We got her at 14 months and it was pretty obvious she loved everyone.

You got lucky Karen. I wish mine loved everyone but she lunges at everyone instead. No matter how we approach, no matter what we have in our hand. She seems like she's in fight or flight mode constantly. I hope time heals this. And a lot of love and patience. I have nothing but time, so we'll see how we end up after a few weeks time.

 

[thekarens]

Our local bird shop both breeds their own and gets them from local breeders and hand feeds them. I don't see this as a problem if they are raising them right. Zoe is a perfect example. We got her at 14 months and it was pretty obvious she loved everyone.

You got lucky Karen. I wish mine loved everyone but she lunges at everyone instead. No matter how we approach, no matter what we have in our hand. She seems like she's in fight or flight mode constantly. I hope time heals this. And a lot of love and patience. I have nothing but time, so we'll see how we end up after a few weeks time.

We weren't lucky, we had the chance to interact with her before taking her home.

Just curious, have you tried calling her bluff? Zoe will also lunge and if you back away or flinch she will give you a good pinch, but if you stand your ground and are calm she turns into a ball of fluff. I know it's hard with the size of a GW beak, but I'm curious as to what your girl would do.

 

[Minimaker]

Our local bird shop both breeds their own and gets them from local breeders and hand feeds them. I don't see this as a problem if they are raising them right. Zoe is a perfect example. We got her at 14 months and it was pretty obvious she loved everyone.

You got lucky Karen. I wish mine loved everyone but she lunges at everyone instead. No matter how we approach, no matter what we have in our hand. She seems like she's in fight or flight mode constantly. I hope time heals this. And a lot of love and patience. I have nothing but time, so we'll see how we end up after a few weeks time.

We weren't lucky, we had the chance to interact with her before taking her home.

Just curious, have you tried calling her bluff? Zoe will also lunge and if you back away or flinch she will give you a good pinch, but if you stand your ground and are calm she turns into a ball of fluff. I know it's hard with the size of a GW beak, but I'm curious as to what your girl would do.

Yeah we're calling her bluff thanks to some advice from Birdman here on the forum. I feel like she's scared more than bluffing. She appears wildly scared and ready to defend herself. She trembles when we approach. Our interactions with her are not mean, the worst we do is remove her from the enclosure and hand treats. It's the removing her part that throws her into a tizzy fit. She bites and bites all the way out until we put her on the playstand. And then when we put her up for the night it's more biting all the way back inside the enclosure. She's really fearful for no apparent reason. We're not heavy-handed or cruel people so her fear is not coming from us. I have no idea. My love of birds goes way back to childhood when I saw my first unfeathered baby bird laying on the ground in the hot sand-sure to die in the heat. I asked my mom to save it and she said it wouldn't live. I think I was around 6 years old. She tried to drag me away and I threw a such a hysterical crying fit over it that she picked it up and took it inside. It lived.

Has anyone had any luck with training DVD's and clickers? If so which ones? I'm buying some if they can teach me anything. I refuse to fail this bird no matter what led to this behavior If we can't get along it's my fault not hers. I have to keep working on it until I figure it out.

 

[Dopey]

How far away is the play stand?
Can you put the play stand in the enclosure so she gets used to it first?

 

[JerseyWendy]

I completely agree with Karen in trying to call her out on her bluff! My Ripley (GW) was 18 months when I got him. He came from Bird Paradise. He was usually caged, and I was told I would have to try and take him out at my own risk since he wasn't all too friendly. Well, I got him out all right - and brought him home 2 days later. Call me crazy, but his lunging didn't intimidate me in the least, and once he realized I wasn't too impressed, he stopped it.

Here are 2 photos that were taken the day after we brought Ripley home:



Sailor is still so very young, and I don't think she's out to hurt you either.

 

[Birdman666]

I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of fear based reaction to the shipping process, which occasionally happens, but they do get over it in time.

I don't want to leave my enclosure because I might get stuffed back into that box.

Time will make that go away. Like I said, I wish I was closer, cuz I'd come over and help. It's hard to do this long distance... It's so much easier to just jump in and do it, than it is to try and explain it.

 

[Minimaker]

We're working on it, my husband got her out tonight and she bit his coated arm a good 10 times before she stepped up. She did NOT want to get on his arm whatsoever. He kept pushing it into her chest until she did, talking sweetly and softly to her and holding a nut out with his other hand. We're reserving the shelled nuts (there are plenty of nuts in her food mix too) but the shelled nuts are her favorite and we're using them during our interactions so she knows she gets something she wants very much during the time she's out. The playstand isn't the problem, she's fine on it once she's on there. It's getting on us she's afraid of. She has to get on us to get to it and that causes a real fear/fight reaction. If we stop making her step up on us she's never going to get used to us right? I mean we have to get her out of there to interact with her at all. So basically I think it'll just take time for her to stop feeling like we're out to hurt her when we remove her from the enclosure. She doesn't get hurt. We do way more than she does!

 

[Birdman666]

It's getting on us she's afraid of. She has to get on us to get to it and that causes a real fear/fight reaction. If we stop making her step up on us she's never going to get used to us right? I mean we have to get her out of there to interact with her at all. So basically I think it'll just take time for her to stop feeling like we're out to hurt her when we remove her from the enclosure. She doesn't get hurt. We do way more than she does!

Yep. That's what she's got to get used to...

But when she's outside the enclosure on her playstand, she's more vulnerable than in the cage, and it's easier to interact with her.

It frankly sounds like this bird was never taught the basics of step up, no bite, control your bite pressure. So, you are starting from square one.

 

[Minimaker]

Wow Wendy that is one beautiful bird. He's quite the looker, Sailor would be in love with him in two seconds flat

Yeah we were being tentative and nervous with her due to her bitey responses to any attempt to touch her or hand her treats. Birdman told us we had to stop that. We have now, so we're starting from scratch with the new approach. I hope it helps. She has not been a happy camper today because of it, but hopefully soon it'll yield results.

No one told me if they had any luck with training DVDs? Any ideas on that?

 

[Dopey]

We're working on it, my husband got her out tonight and she bit his coated arm a good 10 times before she stepped up. She did NOT want to get on his arm whatsoever. He kept pushing it into her chest until she did, talking sweetly and softly to her and holding a nut out with his other hand. We're reserving the shelled nuts (there are plenty of nuts in her food mix too) but the shelled nuts are her favorite and we're using them during our interactions so she knows she gets something she wants very much during the time she's out. The playstand isn't the problem, she's fine on it once she's on there. It's getting on us she's afraid of. She has to get on us to get to it and that causes a real fear/fight reaction. If we stop making her step up on us she's never going to get used to us right? I mean we have to get her out of there to interact with her at all. So basically I think it'll just take time for her to stop feeling like we're out to hurt her when we remove her from the enclosure. She doesn't get hurt. We do way more than she does!

My thinking was that if you are taking her to another part of the house when you take her to her playstand then she is scared. I've had one of my birds for four weeks now and she hasn't left the room her cage is in because of her being scared. I'm taking it slow...probably slower than most people would but that's me.

Someone once used the analogy of a feral cat. It takes a long time to convince them that you aren't going to hurt them. You will also have time of taking one step forward and two steps back.

This bird was probably used to a small cage and you've put her in a HUGE room. She doesn't know what to do with it. You are also nice to her and she may not be used to that either. You give her great food and fresh water etc. Can you just be happy that you can go into her room and she doesn't run to the highest corner? Can you be happy that she even takes something from you - whether she throws it down or not? Getting used to you, your husband, her enclosure, her other fids, is part of her training and I think she is doing great!

 

[Dopey]

Wow Wendy that is one beautiful bird. He's quite the looker, Sailor would be in love with him in two seconds flat

Yeah we were being tentative and nervous with her due to her bitey responses to any attempt to touch her or hand her treats. Birdman told us we had to stop that. We have now, so we're starting from scratch with the new approach. I hope it helps. She has not been a happy camper today because of it, but hopefully soon it'll yield results.

No one told me if they had any luck with training DVDs? Any ideas on that?

My best info from a DVD was from a dog video. I've used some of the advice with my fids.
ParrotForum is the next best source of information for me.
The video for putting on the harness was good too but I haven't used any other "bird" videos. Utube has good videos. Short and sweet.