this new endangered species proposal

[Featheredsamurai]

No, it wasn't a yellow bird and was less common. It was a bird that wasn't available to the pet trade and only breeders had it. I think it was the chapman's conure(Aratinga alticola).

Thick billed? They are nearly impossible to get as pets, but I know someone who owns one.

Thick-billed parrot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I was a kid I saw a thick billed parrot in a pet store for sale. It was a very beautiful bird, I begged my mom to get it for me even though I was in elementary school! lol . Ever since then I've never seen another and don't expect too lol.

And no, it was a conure. I'm pretty sure it was a chapman's conure

 

[sodakat]

This is not a new law, it is the Endangered Species Act of 1972. New species are added every year, and occasionally some are de-listed. The listing of these species will have a minimal impact on breeders. They will just have to make sure they have a Class III permit from USFWS and perhaps join a Cooperative breeding program. If this were designed to restrict breeding, there would be no Golden Conures outside of Florida, no Cuban Amazons, Vinaceous Amazons, any of the Vini lorikeets, or a host of other species. It does not ban interstate trade, it regulates interstate trade. This is not a bad thing. If an animal is endangered, to the point that it is listed on ESA, it does not belong as a pet. The Scarlet Macaw was also proposed for protection (both subspecies). Owners of birds listed on ESA should verify what it means to them, particularly if they have to move out of state. Often the state beaurocracy is harder to navigate than the federal.

I disagree with you, but lets go with your assumption that species listed on ESA should not be kept as pets. Do we then depend breeders willing to carry the financial burden of keeping this species they cannot sell outside their state to produce birds that will stay at their facility or another breeding facility? How much space should they devote? I see less breeding of captive birds taking place of each species that is added to ESA. Of course I personally think THAT is the goal.

 

[sodakat]

Friends of Animals and WildEarth Guardians, with the University of Denver Environmental Law Clinic, reached a settlement in a lawsuit with the FWS in July 2010, in which the FWS agreed to provide overdue 12-month listing decisions for twelve parrot species petitioned by Friends of Animals. This finding is the last of those required under the 2010 settlement.

 

[sodakat]

Of course you have the right to disagree. But your argument is not based in fact. The Cuban Amazon, Vinaceous Amazon, Golden Conure, and many others have been bred for a long time under the restrictions imposed by ESA. Their captive populations are growing in spite of these restrictions. That shows that there are aviculturists who have a passion for these birds, not just for profit. This system has worked very well for the 41 years of ESA. What you should be looking at is who is petitioning to have these birds listed and what their motives are.

Would you mind giving a source for captive populations of the species you listed? I cannot find one. Thanks!

 

[Abigal7]

Of course you have the right to disagree. But your argument is not based in fact. The Cuban Amazon, Vinaceous Amazon, Golden Conure, and many others have been bred for a long time under the restrictions imposed by ESA. Their captive populations are growing in spite of these restrictions. That shows that there are aviculturists who have a passion for these birds, not just for profit. This system has worked very well for the 41 years of ESA. What you should be looking at is who is petitioning to have these birds listed and what their motives are.

I think the point is not that breeders only think of profits or do not have a desire to increase the population of these birds. I had see a golden conure going for 1000 dollars or more. However, if they could never sell any birds as pets then they are going to have to stop breeding birds. Birds cost money. My green cheek cost as much or more to take care of as my dog. I will add I love my bird and dog. There are some people that would not want you to have even a dog as a pet (they believe it is abusing the animal). I do no see my pets as property but as companions who I will care for. It could be understandable if people were concerned if the animal was wild caught or if the animal was deadly and dangerouse but these people who do not want you to have a bird as a pet do not think like that.

 

[sodakat]

Howard Voren has addressed the feasibility of people with private collections continuing to keep birds without selling to the pet trade:

"Many pair of Cubans are now producing regularly and those that breed them are having trouble selling the offspring. The reasonable numbers being produced along with the Federal Government's stringent regulations as to who qualifies to receive these birds interstate commerce, has made them extremely difficult to sell. There are several breeders who due to excellent production will soon be forced to seek homes for their birds in the pet sector within their home states. Many people feel that endangered species should never be kept as pets, but, in cases of excess production, I strongly disagree. This can not only promote more public interest in the birds, but give them a better life as well. When you have excess production sitting around for years in cages, the birds set up a "pecking order." Those at the bottom will have a miserable life being "picked on" by those members of the flock that are above them in this "order." In the wild, they would fly a safe distance away. In a flight cage, no matter how big, the "bullies" have them captive. Release programs, as good as they sound, have thus far proved futile or fatal. "

from Amazon Parrots, Part 2

 

[sodakat]

Well, let's hope there continues to be room in private collections for new offspring because zoos certainly don't have a good track record of parrot longevity according to this data taken from ISIS records: (Survival on the ark: life-history trends in captive parrots - Young - 2011 - Animal Conservation - Wiley Online Library)

I spoke to a "Subject" expert with the ESA at the FWS today. She told me that the determination to add a new species is made on entirely scientific principles based on field studies which have no bearing on captive birds in the U.S. She also said that I was wrong when I thought the listed birds could not be sold at will throughout the U.S. I questioned her and she said well maybe she was wrong, then gave me the email address of the legal department. I did send them an email.

She told me many times that the purpose of adding a species to ESA was to provide additional tools to use to stop smuggling birds into the U.S. - NOT to control the U.S. population of captive birds.

I'm not sure I came away much smarter!

 

[MonicaMc]

When I was a kid I saw a thick billed parrot in a pet store for sale. It was a very beautiful bird, I begged my mom to get it for me even though I was in elementary school! lol . Ever since then I've never seen another and don't expect too lol.

And no, it was a conure. I'm pretty sure it was a chapman's conure

Thick bills are conures. They are more commonly referred to as parrots, but they are still a species of conure... much like the Carolina Parakeet is a conure as well... or Indian Ringnecks are referred to as both parakeets and parrots. Many people may not include them in the list of conures, but that's essentially what they are. They have all the characteristics of a conure as well.

I found a website in French that listed them as conures. It gave scientific name, then said "Conure à gros bec" - which, using Google Translate, came out to "Thick-Billed Parrot"... lol

I don't know about Chapmans, but I know that Thick Bills are being bred by breeders in the USA and are near impossible to purchase, which is why I thought of them.

 

[Abigal7]

When I was a kid I saw a thick billed parrot in a pet store for sale. It was a very beautiful bird, I begged my mom to get it for me even though I was in elementary school! lol . Ever since then I've never seen another and don't expect too lol.

And no, it was a conure. I'm pretty sure it was a chapman's conure

Thick bills are conures. They are more commonly referred to as parrots, but they are still a species of conure... much like the Carolina Parakeet is a conure as well... or Indian Ringnecks are referred to as both parakeets and parrots. Many people may not include them in the list of conures, but that's essentially what they are. They have all the characteristics of a conure as well.

I found a website in French that listed them as conures. It gave scientific name, then said "Conure à gros bec" - which, using Google Translate, came out to "Thick-Billed Parrot"... lol

I don't know about Chapmans, but I know that Thick Bills are being bred by breeders in the USA and are near impossible to purchase, which is why I thought of them.

More proof there may be a connection between conures and macaws.

 

[MonicaMc]

Abigal, have you seen any of the macaw x conure hybrids? Here's the ones I know of/have heard of off the top of my head.

Sun x Hahns
Blue Crown x Hahns
Nanday x Hahns (supposed to also be part Jenday)
Mitred x Noble

There is a questionable Patagonian x B&G (*OR* BTM)

I think there was also Jenday x Hahns



Probably are others that I haven't heard about!


Many macaws are within the genus "Ara". "Aratinga" supposedly translates out to "Little Macaw".