this new endangered species proposal

[haleybird]

...which I've been reading about tonight is trying to pass a new law that restricts interstate trade/sale of certain macaw species (ie, the great green, the hyacinth, and the military macaws). Not intrastate trade (like buying or selling within your own state). But what happens if you meet "the" bird...the one that just clicks instantly with you...and some redundant federal law now restricts you from adopting and bringing him/her home? It just seems completely unfair, when only certain birds are affected, and not within your own state, and on top of that, we are talking about domestically (as in, raised and bred in captivity) raised birds! Not wild or imported birds. I'm kind of afraid of this proposal passing? I'm all for the conservation of the wild brethren of our feathered companions. It absolutely sickens me to know that acres of rainforest are being destructed and irrevocably decimated ...why can't these resources go into protecting what we have left of the natural habitats where each species originated, while keeping the captive bred populations sustainable and genetically diverse? If it weren't for the hard won efforts of breeding these "captive" populations, many macaw species would probably already be extinct! I just dont see how this proposal, with its limited scope and discriminatingly short list of species will do more good than harm. Just a late night thought...

I mostly think its me worrying I won't get to adopt a hy someday..

 

[Birdboy]

Thats horrible!!!!!!
what country is this is, hopefully not Aus

 

[plax]

A law like that would only discourage breeders from continuing to produce the affected species. It simply would no longer be cost-effective to produce the birds if the breeders weren't able to place enough of them within their own states. And that would definitely have a negative impact on the collective effort to perpetuate these already diminishing species. So such a law would make zero sense! It's yet another example of politicians making decisions about matters they're far from qualified to judge and act upon.

 

[sodakat]

It is getting serious now. The FWS has determined that listing the hyacinth, great green and military as endangered are warranted.

Endangered Species Program | What We Do | Foreign Species | Birds

The comment period is reopened. Here are the details:

We are reopening the comment periods to allow all interested
parties an opportunity to provide additional comments on these proposed
rules and to submit information on the status of the species. Comments
previously submitted need not be resubmitted, as they will be fully
considered in preparation of the final rule.

DATES: We will accept comments received on or before April 22, 2013.
Comments submitted electronically using the Federal eRulemaking Portal
(see ADDRESSES section, below) must be received by 11:59 p.m. Eastern
Time on the closing date.

ADDRESSES: You may submit comments by one of the following methods:
Federal eRulemaking Portal: http://www.regulations.gov.
Follow the instructions for submitting comments to Docket No. FWS-R9-
ES-2012-0013 for the hyacinth macaw, and to Docket No. FWS-R9-ES-2011-
0101 for the military macaw and great green macaw.
U.S. mail or hand-delivery: For the hyacinth macaw: Public
Comments Processing, Attn: FWS-R9-ES-2012-0013; Division of Policy and
Directives Management; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service; 4401 N. Fairfax
Drive, Suite 222; Arlington, VA 22203. For the military macaw and great
green macaw: Public Comments Processing, Attn: FWS-R9-ES-2011-0101;
Division of Policy and Directives Management; U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service; 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 222; Arlington, VA 22203.
We will not accept comments by email or fax. We will post all
comments on http://www.regulations.gov. This generally means that we
will post any personal information you provide us (see Public Comments
for more information).

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Janine Van Norman, Chief, Branch of
Foreign Species, Endangered Species Program, U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Room 420, Arlington, VA 22203;
telephone 703-358-2171 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 703-358-2171 end_of_the_skype_highlighting; facsimile 703-358-1735.

 

[sodakat]

I forgot to mention that the FWS made their decision on the blue-throated macaw:

On January 10, 2013, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service published its proposal to protect the blue-throated macaw, endemic to Bolivia, as endangered under the Endangered Species Act. This decision is for 1 species originally part of a petition to list 14 species of parrots. The Service made their determinations on 13 species of parrots previously.

 

[haleybird]

Plax, I didn't even think about that aspect of how devastating that will be to breeders/people raising them. Its already pretty expensive to raise birds.

Plus, how are they going to enforce this law? I mean for people who travel across state lines with their bird, how are they going to know who is who? Plus...I suppose an extra snuggly parrot would be pretty easy to hide for thirty seconds it taked crossing state lines...

Sodakat, thats the one I was reading last night (I wrote a comment. There were only 70 something comments on the proposal too) I didn't know they had passed one for the blue throated.I wonder what it will be like for the people raising these guys...thats so sad that the right home for a bird could be passed up because of a law. I really just want every bird to have an equal opportunity to be united with their chosen person.

 

[sodakat]

Alwese mentioned in her interesting thread about helping her friend David at his large facility in Florida, that he keeps pairs of Queen of Bavaria or golden conure/parakeet (Aratinga guarouba) which are already on the list.

Someone (maybe it was the OP also) said that there are tons of them in Florida so its no problem. I don't agree. One state cannot support a species.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

How terrible! I know someone who used to breed a critically endangered parrot (in & out of captivity). The people who breed them would GIVE and TRADE these birds with other breeders of the same bird all over the country to keep the gene pool varied and strong. They never sold them as pets and only wanted to keep the population up. If this law was enforced for that species it would of been terrible.

I wish I remember what a species it was, it was a type of conure I had never heard of.

 

[sodakat]

How terrible! I know someone who used to breed a critically endangered parrot (in & out of captivity). The people who breed them would GIVE and TRADE these birds with other breeders of the same bird all over the country to keep the gene pool varied and strong. They never sold them as pets and only wanted to keep the population up. If this law was enforced for that species it would of been terrible.

I wish I remember what a species it was, it was a type of conure I had never heard of.

It might be the golden conure. I've read the regulations and if you have the correct permit you can exchange them with other breeders. I think it is quite difficult, but not impossible, to get the permit. You can't fake that you are breeding them, I mean. This is the only way the birds can be transported intrastate, as I understand it. Same for any animal designated Endangered by the FWS.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

How terrible! I know someone who used to breed a critically endangered parrot (in & out of captivity). The people who breed them would GIVE and TRADE these birds with other breeders of the same bird all over the country to keep the gene pool varied and strong. They never sold them as pets and only wanted to keep the population up. If this law was enforced for that species it would of been terrible.

I wish I remember what a species it was, it was a type of conure I had never heard of.

It might be the golden conure. I've read the regulations and if you have the correct permit you can exchange them with other breeders. I think it is quite difficult, but not impossible, to get the permit. You can't fake that you are breeding them, I mean. This is the only way the birds can be transported intrastate, as I understand it. Same for any animal designated Endangered by the FWS.

No, it wasn't a yellow bird and was less common. It was a bird that wasn't available to the pet trade and only breeders had it. I think it was the chapman's conure(Aratinga alticola).

 

[haleybird]

Of course, someone could always temporarily move to the state that the bird lives in.... then back to the state they originally came from...the laws say nothing about moving across statelines with an already owned bird....which just means it would be one more hoop to jump through to adopting a bird. If thats what it takes for me to adopt my bird, I'm all for it, without a question or doubt. I just hope that within the next year or two, this law doesn't pass....thats all I need

 

[Abigal7]

A law like that would only discourage breeders from continuing to produce the affected species. It simply would no longer be cost-effective to produce the birds if the breeders weren't able to place enough of them within their own states. And that would definitely have a negative impact on the collective effort to perpetuate these already diminishing species. So such a law would make zero sense! It's yet another example of politicians making decisions about matters they're far from qualified to judge and act upon.

I agree with everything you said. I imagine Macaws are put aside to increase the population. I also imagine most breeders are also into keeping the number of Macaws up and not just sell them all as pets. What is next the sun conure or African Grey? Also, can birds even when not touched by humans be able to survive in the wild if humans have been caring for them? Until, habit destruction stops and people get rid of the idea of trying to capture wild birds for the pet trade. Releasing Macaws back in the wild will probably be a waste of time.

 

[Jtbirds]

Soo a quick question as I have not kept up on all these laws lately. I own a blue throat macaw and never plan to re home him, but say I was I couldn't rehome him outside of pennyslivinia? Or is is yet to come that I couldn't?

I know all about the golden conure crap because I was suppose to get one in and it became a huge issue with the perment. If you ever have to get one I is a bunch of you know what. Good thing the person ended up keeping it and decided to work with it.

 

[sodakat]

Permits are not issued for endangered species to be kept or sold as pets. Here is an excerpt of rules and permit process (http://www.fws.gov/international/pd...ecies-act-non-native-species-permits-2002.pdf)

Once the status is confirmed for the blue-throated macaw, it cannot be legally sold to someone in another state unless you both have a permit and for species procreation breeding purposes only.

Captive-bred wildlife​

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permits may be
issued to a person registered with the
Service to buy and sell within the United
States live, non-native endangered or
threatened animals which were captive
born in the United States for
enhancement of species propagation,
provided the other person is registered
for the same species. A separate permit
is needed to import or export such
species. See fact sheet on Captive-bred
Wildlife Registration.​

What about Pets?​

Permits are not issued to keep or breed
endangered or threatened animals as
pets. Using protected species as pets is
not consistent with the purposes of the
Act, which is aimed at conservation of
the species and recovery of wild
populations.​

Where Do I Apply for a Permit?​

Permit applications may be obtained
from the Service’s permit website or
contacting us. An application processing
fee is required, and applicants should​

allow at least 90 days for processing.

 

[sodakat]

You could give him to someone in another state though:

Loans and Gifts​

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. Lawfully taken and
held endangered and threatened species
may be shipped interstate as a bona fide​

gift or loan if there is no barter, credit,
other form of compensation, or intent to
profit or gain. A standard breeding loan,
where no money or other consideration
changes hands but some offspring are
returned to the lender of a breeding
animal, is not considered a commercial
activity and, thus, is not prohibited by
the Act and does not require a permit.
Documentation of such an activity​

should accompany shipment.

 

[Jtbirds]

Ah I see thanks a lot sodakat, I have no plans on ever getting rid of him he is one of my most loving macaws but I just wanted to know for future reference as I have gotten calls about other blue throats since then and have gotten them in at the rescue.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the goal of this proposed legislation? What is FWS hoping to achieve with this? It sounds ridiculous, imo.

 

[sodakat]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the goal of this proposed legislation? What is FWS hoping to achieve with this? It sounds ridiculous, imo.

It does seem ridiculous to all of us. The "good" thing is, there were many more species of macaws on the original list that one of the animal "rights" groups petitioned to have added. Right now it looks like blue-throated are going to be added and 3 more are considered.

The fact that they are adding blue-throated macaws means, to me, that the logic we are using that these regulations do nothing to help their wild counterparts is not resonating with the FWS. That is very disheartening.

I'm going to call FWS tomorrow and see if I can get a better idea of their reasoning. Then we can comment more effectively. I really thought with all the great comments that were generated last fall that there would be no possible way any of these species would be considered.

If they way they think adding them is "warranted" I'm going to guess they will be added.

The goal of all this is to keep us from having parrots as pets of course. Step by step. Not the FWS goal. The addition of these new species was started by a lawsuit for Violations of the Endangered Species Act filed on behalf of Friends of Animals.

Here is the American Federation of Aviculture's (AFA) comment, which apparently didn't convince the FWS since they are still going forward: http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/23884440/1101661935/name/9.3.12..AFA.final.comment..4.macaw.species.pdf

 

[MonicaMc]

No, it wasn't a yellow bird and was less common. It was a bird that wasn't available to the pet trade and only breeders had it. I think it was the chapman's conure(Aratinga alticola).

Thick billed? They are nearly impossible to get as pets, but I know someone who owns one.

Thick-billed parrot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[legal_eagle]

It might not be such a bad idea to make parrots more difficult to get ... it might wean out the impulse buyers.