The Truth About ORGANIC Pellets

[jakrob4]

Just thought I would try clear up some confusion I keep reading about.
If you read the ingredients on harrisons you will notice it does contain preservatives
Harrison's Bird Foods is a family of certified organic pet bird diets that were formulated to make your bird as healthy as it can possibly be.
If you notice the words Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Rosemary Extract.
These have No nutritional benefit and are purely used as preservatives derived from natural sources.

Now "Harrison's nutrients are better than others due to being organic" is complete bull****.
For something to be certified organic it only has to have 95% Organic ingredients, every vitamin the bird needs can be put in this other 5%.

Let me give you a little lesson about how Harrison's pellets are made.
They are extruded.
Meaning they are made up of cheap organic grains and seeds ground into flour form,
then mixed with whatever ARTIFICIAL vitamins can handle the extrusion process (THE SAME USED IN 99% OF PELLET BRANDS).
They are then heated to temperatures over 200 degrees Celsius, killing nearly every bit of natural nutritional content, and pushed out through a little poo hole like a hot cooked cookie dough and cut into size.
They are then sprayed with more ARTIFICIAL nutrients that are needed, that couldn't hold up to the heat of the cooking (extrusion).

What your left with is a pretty much a sunflower/peanut flavored multivitamin cookie,
with little chance of bacterial contamination due to being exposed to such a high heat.

Now these other ARTIFICIAL added nutrients are different from normal chemical makeups (vitamins) in food.
They are in stable form, meaning they don't have nearly as high losses due to cooking, oxygen exposure etc.

When it comes down to it there is not much difference in ingredients with any of the types of pellets on the market, other than TOPS maybe (Which will leave your bird deficient in Vitamin D and B12).

Harrison's is defiantly better off using organic grains, the pesticides in the normal grains don't get destroyed by the cooking and are eaten by your bird.
Aswell as higher levels of nutrient inhibiting phytic acid are proven in foods grown with non organic fertilizer.
Phytic acid chelates many minerals and is only partially destroyed by cooking.

With all this said can't see any reason why Harrison's should have higher nutrient loss or less shelf life than any other brand seeing how its essentially the same stuff, unless the opposing brand has really high levels of unwanted synthetic preservatives.
Only have to look at all the sulfur allergies in humans now to realise you shouldn't be eating preservatives regularly.
Aswell as them banning BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin in human foods due to it being carcinogenic,
yet still using it in pet foods.

Now lets transfer that to a bird with a much more sensitive immune system and give that preservative and pesticide filled food as 80% of its diet? don't have to be a scientist to figure out that is asking for trouble.
How much do you really love your birds?

Now if I could source TOPS in australia I would probably use them along with the odd boiled egg for B12 and plenty of sunlight.
I have to use harrisons as its the best and only organic option available.
I am currently working with vets and nutritionists and will be bringing out an Organic cold pressed formulated pellet in Australia in the coming future.
It's similiar to TOP but with far more (very high quality) ingredients and some added Vitamin supplements like B12 to compensate for the natural losses.
It won't have a long shelf life, will be far more expensive to produce, and only available in Australia, But as far as I'm concerned will be the top shelf and only option for my feathered children.
The ingredients in Harrisons obviously work, I have flying proof.
Just don't think you are compensating for a diet thats filled with the enzymes and other sickness fighting chemicals that get destroyed from cooking.

I'm not going to type all about the reasons why we should use organic but PLEASE read this page,
its just a google search but does a pretty good explanation.
Organic.org - Top 10 Reasons to Support Organic in the 21st Century

Kind Regards
Jake

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I first fed Rosie lafeaber's, then changed her to tops for 8 months and she did pretty good. But Rosie was still skinny and I constantly struggled to get her weight past 165 grams. After switching her to Harrison's fine she steadily gained weight and has now reached 290 grams were she is supposed to be and is not gaining excess weight. Harrison's made a visible and emotional difference in Rosie and she is a much healthier bird now.

I still offer totally organics but Rosie loves Harrison's and doesn't touch them.

 

[sodakat]

I have a few questions.

Why can you purchase Harrisons in Australia but not TOPs?
Why do moth eggs live through the cooking process?
Have you ever discussed your concerns with Harrisons?

 

[weco]

Jake, if I could give you 10 thank you markers for that post, I would.....

I fully understand the power of advertising and glitzy/flashy pictures can do for products.....I always say that we in the United States are a society of advertising junkies...we believe everything the spin merchants tell us.....

If you want a good example of the junk that is sold to the blind followers/believers of the old sooth sayers, look up the history of of the multimillion dollar business that was Pet Medicine Chest until the State of Iowa shut them down.....there is still enough information on the internet that would shock a prudent, knowledgeable individual.....

They were selling potions & snake oils under pet medicine chest, canine medicine chest, feline medicine chest, rabbit medicine chest & avian medicine chest.....most of which were the same concoctions for all these types of animals...until...the Iowa dept. of agriculture did some analysis on their brews & powders.....

Over the counter medications for birds should be questioned for their efficacy because of the time some of that stuff sits on shelves.....several years ago, the president of Ark Naturals was quoted in a major pet industry publication as saying: “It can be a real challenge, even for manufacturers, to get to the reality of ingredients. Manufacturers buy raw materials and get a certificate of analysis. The supplier basically warranties the quality, but how do you know? There is no authority that warrants that the COAs are valid.”

In the same article Weiss went on to state: “You can’t test every single lot of every ingredient you buy. Both the time and cost would be prohibitive. So 100 percent oversight over ingredients is impossible.”

Considering Weiss’ statement, my birds will never receive any products from an industry that cannot concern themselves with properly testing the raw materials that are used for their offerings...and...keep in mind that there is no governmental oversight or regulatory control of this industry.....

Well, I guess I should give Jake back his soap box or whatever impromptu podiums are called/referred to in OZ.....

 

[tab_xo]

Now "Harrison's nutrients are better than others due to being organic" is complete bull****.
For something to be certified organic it only has to have 95% Organic ingredients, every vitamin the bird needs can be put in this other 5%.

Thats true...

There are 3 levels to certification

70%- 94 % of the product is organic to be able to say- Made with organics

95% - 99%- is able to say certified organic

but to be truly organic it MUST be 100 % certified organic..

Its up to the buyer to look at labels to see which category the product they are about to purchase falls into!

Obviously Harrisons only is classed as certified, and so people assume that means its all organic ingredients, but i am fairly sure that's alot better than some of the other pellets out there????

I have ordered Harrisons for Fargo, due to the recommendations on this forum! Unless there is a pellet which is 100% organics, then i think i will stick with as it seems to be the best pellet available in Australia..

and just on a side note from that link:

Taste Better and Truer Flavor

Sorry but in my opinion that is not true hahaha :54: I went to the organic expo last year and was fed a lot of certified organic foods, and it was horrible haha I am a fussy eater to begin with, but organic chocolate, honestly, it tastes no where near as good as normal chocolate, although those health benefits are there and the make up smells really strange too

If you can make a 100% certified organic pellet in Australia, you will have a customer with me Although i dont mind about organics, i want whats best for my little man!!


Thanks for the read!

 

[MikeyTN]

Part of the reason I don't use Harrison's....Even though they have a local store and company right here in Nashville....Thank you for bringing up valid points!!!

 

[Jtbirds]

Well thanks for pointing all of this out and it just further proves what I have been saying about Harrison's. It has always upset me that the first few ingredients were sunflower seeds and peanuts. I don't care if they were organic or not they are still bad things for the birds to have espically the peanuts.

You are absolutely correct about the fact that there advertising draws so many people in, it is so sad that people think they are giving the parrots a healthier alternative when truly they aren't doing much better for them just giving the company more money...

 

[jakrob4]

I have a few questions.

Why can you purchase Harrisons in Australia but not TOPs?
Why do moth eggs live through the cooking process?
Have you ever discussed your concerns with Harrisons?

Its hard importing food into Australia. There's only one person who imports all the Harrisons and there has been troubles with that lately.

Sorry I have no idea I thought heat was meant to kill moth eggs.

Don't get me wrong I love harrisons, they have done alot more for the pet birds of the world than I could ever imagine to do.
They have funded many experiments and have helped achieve leaps and bounds in Psittacine Nutrition.
I don't have any concerns I understand exactly what I'm buying and love it myself. Like I said it's still the best available ATM. Just make sure your birds get non-destroyed enzymes from fresh sources like any pellet diet.
Regards
Jake

 

[Jtbirds]

As I do agree with the fact they have done a lot... How do they justify using peanuts and sunflower seeds and sunflower seeds and marketing it as a healthy diet for the parrots... I mean as we know if we feed our pets sunflower seeds and peanuts no matter if they were organic or not they would be very unhealthy. I understand that they also add other ingredients into them, but why allow the first two ingredients to be the ones that are the least wanted by any respectable parrot owner.

 

[jakrob4]

As I do agree with the fact they have done a lot... How do they justify using peanuts and sunflower seeds and sunflower seeds and marketing it as a healthy diet for the parrots... I mean as we know if we feed our pets sunflower seeds and peanuts no matter if they were organic or not they would be very unhealthy. I understand that they also add other ingredients into them, but why allow the first two ingredients to be the ones that are the least wanted by any respectable parrot owner.

I don't think corn can be justified being used as a daily food source for any reason, other than its really cheap and abundant.
But hey Americans have pretty much succeeded in putting some type of corn extract in just about every food they have.

Sunflower seeds are actually probably one of the best seeds, if not the best seed in commercial bird mixes. They have just got a bad rap from all the people feeding only sunflower seeds to there picky birds, saying its all they eat, after sticking a bowl big enough to swim in of them in there cage.
They do have a really high fat content like most seeds, so they promote liver disease.
There is actually a fair few birds out there that have made it to nearly 60 years old being fed pretty much only sunflower seeds.
Not saying they were healthy or that it's recommended in anyway, the will to survive can live far longer than your health.

The reason they use sunflower seeds, because it makes the birds eat what probably would usually taste like crap.
The reason they use corn...$$$
Regards Jake

 

[sodakat]

I have a few questions.

Why can you purchase Harrisons in Australia but not TOPs?
Why do moth eggs live through the cooking process?
Have you ever discussed your concerns with Harrisons?

Its hard importing food into Australia. There's only one person who imports all the Harrisons and there has been troubles with that lately.

Sorry I have no idea I thought heat was meant to kill moth eggs.

Don't get me wrong I love harrisons, they have done alot more for the pet birds of the world than I could ever imagine to do.
They have funded many experiments and have helped achieve leaps and bounds in Psittacine Nutrition.
I don't have any concerns I understand exactly what I'm buying and love it myself. Like I said it's still the best available ATM. Just make sure your birds get non-destroyed enzymes from fresh sources like any pellet diet.
Regards
Jake

I wanted to ask those questions because I didn't want to assume anything. I have tried both TOPs and Harrisons. Literally. Tasted them both and fed both to my Eclectus. TOPs has an alfalfa taste (to me) and Harrisons has a nutty taste (to me). TOPs looks similar to the green tubular food for rabbits, IMO and Harrisons High Potency Coarse and LifeTime Coarse are square.

If left to sit at room temperature for any length of time, moth larvae hatch from Harrisons but do not from TOPs. I also buy untreated seeds and have moth larvae hatch in the seeds. This is how it goes with organic products.

Freezing will kill the moth eggs and so will heat but apparently not cooking at 200 degrees which is what you claim Harrisons company does.

Dr Harrison is a DVM. Gudrun Maybaum, owner of TOPs is a bird owner whose ex-partner Chris Biro, created an organic bird food that she continued to manufacture once they split up. I believe Harrisons has tested their product on many species and has blood work results they will share.

Because I keep Eclectus I cannot feed much in the way of pellets, but mine do seem to tolerate Harrisons and TOPs. I prefer to feed them a balanced fresh food diet but do think there is a place for limited pellet feeding.

Vitamin D3 is my reason for feeding pellets when I do. I live where the UV rays from the sun are not beneficial from October through March so this is important.

I have no answers to this "organic" dilemma but my opinion is that 200 degrees is not harmful to most grains and obviously is not harmful to seed moth eggs!

 

[Grinder]

This thread is exactly why I just don't feed my birds any pellets. I admit that I don't know enough to make a truly educated guess as to which pellet is better - organic or not. Because of this I make sure that while my birds do have a fruit and nut mix, that the majority of their foods are fresh veggies (since their are sugary fruits in the previous mentioned mix already). Yes, it takes more effort on my part, but I find it doesnt take anymore of my time as I prepare it while preparing my own food. My birds look forward to meal time and enjoy their fresh foods.

I still appreciate the thread as it has given me more info than I had. As stated by many, most companies are in this business purely for profit and not for the well being of our birds. Properly caring for our birds is already an expensive under taking. I wiould gladly pay more for a product such as the one the OP is planning on creating. I wish you well on your venture.

 

[aliray]

Very informative article and thanks for posting it and I personally agree with grinder when it comes to my birds. I use the Higgens Gourmet sun conure fruit, nut, veg, seed mix along with fresh foods.

 

[SandyBee]

I would love to see a good organic pellet made without peanuts and sunflower seeds in it. Also one that birds like.
My guys hate Harrison and TOPS and there is not a lot of good alternatives out there.

If you come up with something I believe you have a very captive audience here.

 

[Grenage]

I'm not sure why the OP would put anyone off pellets; doesn't everyone know that it's basically multivitamins mashed into grain and seed? It has to be, how else would you get what was needed into such small quantities of food?

I have no idea how they are cooked, because I don't work at the company.

Moth eggs are a weird concept for me; when I started off and had no idea about pellet shelf life (hey, dried food lives forever!), I bought a 6-month supply of Harrison's high potency. I left it on a shelf, and took what I needed each day - I've never seen anything but pellets come out of a bag, but I can say the same for the seed mix I use.

I am guessing it's pot luck.

 

[ShellyBorg]

When it comes to bugs in the food it is not always in the food from the packaging plant. I have bought seed and shared it with a friend who lives across the county from me. They live at a high elevation and never get bugs. I will get bugs in everything including pancake mix if I don't keep it in the freezer.

 

[Jtbirds]

As I do agree with the fact they have done a lot... How do they justify using peanuts and sunflower seeds and sunflower seeds and marketing it as a healthy diet for the parrots... I mean as we know if we feed our pets sunflower seeds and peanuts no matter if they were organic or not they would be very unhealthy. I understand that they also add other ingredients into them, but why allow the first two ingredients to be the ones that are the least wanted by any respectable parrot owner.

I don't think corn can be justified being used as a daily food source for any reason, other than its really cheap and abundant.
But hey Americans have pretty much succeeded in putting some type of corn extract in just about every food they have.

Sunflower seeds are actually probably one of the best seeds, if not the best seed in commercial bird mixes. They have just got a bad rap from all the people feeding only sunflower seeds to there picky birds, saying its all they eat, after sticking a bowl big enough to swim in of them in there cage.
They do have a really high fat content like most seeds, so they promote liver disease.
There is actually a fair few birds out there that have made it to nearly 60 years old being fed pretty much only sunflower seeds.
Not saying they were healthy or that it's recommended in anyway, the will to survive can live far longer than your health.

The reason they use sunflower seeds, because it makes the birds eat what probably would usually taste like crap.
The reason they use corn...$$$
Regards Jake

I do understand that and don't agree with anything about both.... I don't feed my birds much corn or sunflower seeds and no peanuts so I don't have the issue, but I kow others do. I like saffflower and pumpkin seeds more IMO.

 

[noblemacaw]

I will feed my parrot (soon to be parrots) mostly fresh foods. However in our winters the fresh food selections suck are mostly from out of country. I need to be able to feed some pellets to the parrots especially during the winter when my fresh selection for foods sucks so bad they are deprived of some fresh stuff due to the fact it will come from out of country.

What is a good pellet food to feed a RFM macaw and mini macaw/conure like species? *sigh* I just want what is best for the species of parrot I have.

I feed Valentino the tropican high potency and Harrisons high potency type pellets mixed. I use the tropican to pulverize into a powder mix so I can make "syringe" food for his before bed night time feeding. I have switched Valentino off the baby formula months ago and I notice when I "skip" a night feeding the poor parrot is so hungry the next morning he is ready to eat my arm off. I also am having difficulty with calorie/activity ratio. Most of the time I have to feed Valentino twice a day his fresh mix. So far I am able to keep his weight stable with the "fake" hand formula I feed him for his comfort night feeding but if I don't feed him the syringe food which is just his adult pellet pulverized up he loses weight. I believe strongly he is too old to feed him hand rearing formula. It is too rich and I don't want him to develop heart disease from it. I need an adult pellet that is good for a RFM. I think what I am feeding him is good. The breeder feeds the same pellet along with her fresh mix (separate bowls of course) and her birds are very healthy and live a long time.

 

[jakrob4]

Freezing will kill the moth eggs and so will heat but apparently not cooking at 200 degrees which is what you claim Harrisons company does.

I have no answers to this "organic" dilemma but my opinion is that 200 degrees is not harmful to most grains and obviously is not harmful to seed moth eggs!

I've spent the last 6 months researching pellet production full time, why I haven't been able to work. I have looked at many extruders and know exactly how they work. Currently most pellets are produced with one of two processes.

Extruded pellets are produced at temperatures between 400 and 650 degrees fahrenheit and afterwards supplemented with synthetic nutrients sprayed on the outside of the pellet to make up for the damage that the heat has done to the natural nutrients, leaving the density of vitamins and minerals on the exterior of the pellet where it is easily depleted with exposure to ultra-violet rays and oxygen.
The vitamins most sensitive to the extrusion process are vitamin A and vitamin E from fat-soluble vitamins,
and vitamin C, B(1), and folic acid from water-soluble vitamins.
Vitamin E itself or in its complex form is quite unstable during processing and even in storage of food.
Vitamins A, C and D are also sensitive to oxidation, so these vitamins have minimum retention during storage.

Steamed pellets which are produced using moderate heat, (around 230 degrees fahrenheit) use binders (added starches or clays) to hold the particles together. These starches break down into simple sugars. Lysine and other amino acids are the building blocks of the protein chain . An interaction between dietary simple sugars and lysine results in a chemical complex that makes lysine unavailable to the animal. Some manufacturers argue that the heat is needed to pasteurize the food and make it more digestible. Parrots have evolved over millions of years eating raw materials and their digestive systems have developed to metabolize raw food. The extrusion and steamed pelleting processes destroy many, if not most of the natural nutrients, leaving the pellet that is produced as simply a vessel to carry the synthetic nutrients to your bird.

And then there is the method I'm using. Cold pelleting assures minimal to no nutrient loss during manufacturing. Studies have proven that natural nutrients are more readily absorbed than synthetic nutrients. Cold pelleting leaves the natural nutrients intact so that the need for synthetic nutrients is not so great.

I am not making a 100% organic pellet. Harrisons and all the others are proof that there isn't much wrong with artificial supplements. The difference is my pellet will only need the supplements; b12 (cyanacobalamin),
a Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopheryl acetate from natural sources)
and a D3 (cholecalciferol).
If you go look at a Swisse multivitamin, these are the exact same ingredients used.
along with
Calcium - Calcium carbonate
phosphorous - Dicalcium phosphate
and some montmorillonite clay
being the only other non food ingredients.
It will defiantly also contain a small amount of sunflower seeds.
Though I guarantee that everything will match up to the current estimated nutritional requirements of companion parrots, and come from a lot better sources than any extruded pellet.
I also should make it aware there has been many studies proving that majority of birds in the wild are completely hopeless at choosing there diet, so please stop comparing everything to there wild diets. They live long enough to reproduce 2 baby's and the population grows, hardly a feet of good health.

I'm not sure what Harrisons uses as there Vitamin K supplement but theres no way any of them will be in my pellet.
Menadione (e.g. menadione sodium bisulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite or menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite)
has never been researched or specifically approved for long term use, such as in pet food
has been banned from use in food and supplements for human use in many European countries due to serious side effects,
including permanent damage and deaths
FDA has banned synthetic vitamin K from over-the-counter supplements because of its high toxicity
vitamins K1 and K2 are metabolized through the lymphatic system, utilizing pancreatic enzymes and bile acids and
regulated by the liver. Vitamin K3 is absorbed directly and bypasses the natural pathways and regulators.

Regards
Jake

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I'm excited to see what pellet you eventually come out with. Australia really needs a native quality pellet that doesn't have to be imported in.