Plea for help

[Juno45]

I have a 6 month old green cheek conure that I got roughly 2 months ago. I am having an issue with constant biting! Iv'e gotten him used to me. I am able to hand feed him inside and outside of his cage without issue. He's not scared of me. When I approach his cage he comes right up to me hoping for a treat. Iv'e done everything I had been told to do to get him used to me and it seemed to work. At least until I started the step- up training. Whenever I get my finger close to him so he can step up he will bite and chew. This happens wherever I try to train him not just in his cage.

Iv'e been working with him for these two months now and Iv'e gotten him to the point where instead of just mauling my finger, he will put one foot on my finger and then commence said mauling of my finger. Iv'e been trying the positive reinforcement training. When he puts his foot on my finger without biting, I give him a treat and when he bites, he gets no treat. When I have to clean his cage he will occasionally go out of his way to come bite my hand or arm. My hand looks like it's been through a paper shredder. Iv'e been told to just "ignore his biting and keep your hand there to show him that biting wont get a rise out of you." All that advice has done is leave me with scabs and scars. I seldom move my hand or vocalize from the pain as Iv'e been told that this can actually encourage more biting. Whenever I try training him to step up at his T stand he will just bite, fall backwards and hang upside down or glide down (as he cant fly because he came to me already clipped) to the ground. Iv'e tried wearing protective gloves but when I do he wont come near my hand.

He doesn't seem to be doing it out of fear and Iv'e tried everything Iv'e been told to discourage the biting. I live with my sister and she's getting ready to have her baby any day now so I really need to get the biting issue under control. What else can I do to try and discourage the biting? I'm tried of bleeding every time I try and train him and I definitely cannot risk the baby getting bitten.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Juno

 

[clark_conure]

TIME OUT METHOD
if your bird is bonded to you, and always comes to you... it's easy to get him to stop biting. Might take a few tries maybe a couple days to fully sink in. But I prefer to always go with the "time out" method.

When he goes to bite, say "no!" and immediately put him on the floor like 10-15feet away from where you were. Not on his cage or play-stand or anyplace he likes to go. The floor usually is best.

Then turn around and go back. He will eventually figure out he is being "shunned" by his "flock" for inappropriate behavior. He will figure it out and walk back and generally be sweet, sometimes not, but after the second or third time he will figure out the connection. Don't go get him, let him think about why he was on the floor, (and calm down) and take the walk of shame back to you and apologize in his way. (or fly back).


After that work on bite pressure, once he knows theres a limit he will realize he can use his "hand/beak", when you don't react.

He will figure it out, just start with this and you will both figure it out.

Trust me on this....

 

[jenphilly]

I'm not sure this bird is bonded with you, he sees you as getting treats, but from everything you post, he does not seem to have an interest in interacting with you. Something that many people do not want to hear or accept, not every bird likes people, parrots are individuals and some birds simply are jerks. I was an Adoption Coordinator for a large parrot rescue for many years, and it was always a difficult time to convince or explain to a potential adopter that the bird they wanted did not like or want them... yes, parrots are intelligent thinking creatures, and there are times that they simply like who they like, and who they don't need to die a slow pain bloody death by beak.

Is there anyone that your conure does well with? Anyone who can handle him?

And hate to mention this, but if he is trying to eat you now, wait for the hormones to kick within the next 3-6 months...

 

[Squeekmouse]

Don't give up and don't despair. You say that he comes to you when you approach the cage and that sounds like a good sign. In my opinion that shows me that he is at least willing and starting to bond with you. However, if he is biting to the point of drawing blood, then either he isn't bonded fully or he doesn't realize that behavior is NOT OK.

I've read and heard a LOT of different opinions and suggestions about how to deal with biting, so I can sure empathize with you if you feel confused about what you should and shouldn't do. You are half right with what you are doing so far. Good behavior should be rewarded, and negative behavior should NOT be rewarded. He also needs a negative consequence to negative behavior. That does NOT mean hurting him or neglecting him of course, Clark's advise is excellent.

As ClarkConure suggested, you need to teach him that his "flock" does NOT want to play with birds that hurt. Parrots rarely LIKE being on the floor, but it won't hurt him or psychologically scar him to be on the floor, so this is a very good deterrent. Also, Conure's are very social and they really want to be with their flock. In a true flock, if a conure hurts another conure, the injured conure will squawk loudly and leave. That's only a good thing if the injured conure was considered an enemy, and that's why it's important that you continue to earn your conure's trust and love.

When your conure bites, shout "NO!" so there's a vocalization for him to associate with this, and not one he wants to hear. He should only hear a shouted "NO!" when he has done something bad and then something he doesn't like happens: He's on the floor, and everyone else is higher up than him, and his flock moves away from him, shunning him. Let him come back to YOU before picking him up again. If he bites you again, put him on the floor again with another "NO!". Third time will earn him another "NO!" and then it's probably time to put him back in his cage and leave him alone for a while.

To earn his trust and love, be near him a lot, give him treats when he comes to you and when he does things you want him to do (like stepping up or coming to you). If he always gets angry and bites when you reach into his cage, try just opening the cage door and sitting by the open door waiting for HIM to come out. Conures can be territorial with their cage and it upsets them when a giant hand lunges in there and invades his personal space without his permission. You'll have to slow down and earn the right to reach in there for him.

Love, patience, time, treats, consistency, and training will work nearly all of the time. Yes, it's possible that a parrot is just too wild or too emotionally scarred to tolerate handling, but if your guy was raised by humans (hand fed I hope?) and he is already showing signs of bonding (coming to you and not being scared), then don't give up on him. He's very lucky to have such a patient and determined human as you clearly are.

It will be worth it in time, there's very few things as sweet and wonderful as a Conure's love.

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

I agree highly with Clark in trying to use a form of punishment to eliminate the biting. Of course, punishment here just means something negative in the eyes of the bird, i.e. being shunned.

Of course, as Jennifer said, it is also possible that you and him really are just a bad match for each other. I've seen it happen even with breeders and their own babies, so if it is the case, don't think that it is necessarily anything that you did wrong.

However, before you go down that road, I would try what Clark suggested first. Even if you have to work at it for a few weeks to see major results. Although as he said, it usually doesn't take to long if there isn't more to it than the bird just hasn't learned that it isn't acceptable yet.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Great, great input above.
I wish I had had some of it 30 years ago. But I didn't, and I found my own way, in a sense.
I have reduced biting to almost zero over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I surrendered. I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I NEVER do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I swallow my disappointment at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair. Really, I don't involve hands much... he doesn't like them. He seems to think the real ME is my head, perched on a weird moveable tree with questionable appendages.
Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist in the Rb's kingdom.
I have had some success with using the "earthquake" technique for biting. When he bites, give your hand a swift shake... it should make him let go. The idea... every time he bites, a mysterious earthquske shakes him up. Some people feel this is mean and/or engenders lack of trust, I know. The same can work for clothes biting... give your shoulder a shake, or jump! For me, it has helped.
But please... listen to and try all the good advice you'll get here. Don't surrender until you know you've done your best. Then just accept and love whatever/whoever your bird turns out to be.
Parrots aren't always easy pets to understand and control, and your bird sounds ALL-PARROT!
My Rickeybird is in some ways kind of a worse-case scenario, but we have it all worked out between the two of us. Parrot-owners usually wind up determining their own personal comfort level with various behaviors.
Good luck, and good for you for reaching out.

 

[clark_conure]

Juno45 I'm curious how it's coming along. It's been a day....has he figured it out yet?

If not he will, just hang in there.

 

[eagle18]

I'm not sure this bird is bonded with you, he sees you as getting treats, but from everything you post, he does not seem to have an interest in interacting with you. Something that many people do not want to hear or accept, not every bird likes people, parrots are individuals and some birds simply are jerks. I was an Adoption Coordinator for a large parrot rescue for many years, and it was always a difficult time to convince or explain to a potential adopter that the bird they wanted did not like or want them... yes, parrots are intelligent thinking creatures, and there are times that they simply like who they like, and who they don't need to die a slow pain bloody death by beak.

Is there anyone that your conure does well with? Anyone who can handle him?

And hate to mention this, but if he is trying to eat you now, wait for the hormones to kick within the next 3-6 months...

Could it just be possible that 'stepping up' is not his thing?

I got my BEC last summer and he does not want to step up, especially if he is outside of the cage. He takes treats from me and loves to be stroked but when I put my hand out he gently bites down or nudges it away with his head.

 

[Janet]

Love ClarkConure's advice. Works very well with Rain -- almost immediately. If she bites, I say firmly OUCH, NO BITE ... and she knows what I'm saying. I walk away, and when I come back (might only be 10 seconds) she's as pleasant as she usually is. I'll be bringing home Aspen this weekend (a feisty little cinnamon-turquoise Conure) -- and I'm anxious to see how well this works for him. (smile)

 

[MonicaMc]

At least until I started the step- up training. Whenever I get my finger close to him so he can step up he will bite and chew. This happens wherever I try to train him not just in his cage.

Can you define how you try to train him to step up? Do you present your finger and just wait for him to step up? Or do you push into his stomach to force the behavior?


When I have to clean his cage he will occasionally go out of his way to come bite my hand or arm.

Station training is your best bet here... that, or remove from cage before cleaning. Station training is teaching him to stay put somewhere for a reward. It sounds like this would be easy to teach him. Teach him this behavior before you need to use it.


Iv'e been told to just "ignore his biting and keep your hand there to show him that biting wont get a rise out of you."

Although I know this is common recommendations, it's honestly pretty bad advice. I mean, if he was a german shepherd, a rottweiler or some other large breed dog, would you seriously just leave your hand there and allow the dog to maul your hand until it finishes? I'm sure the answer would be no... you would not show such disregard and disrespect to such an animal... so why people recommend this to birds? Because it's easier to ignore an animal that may not be able to cause as much harm... and it's sad.

It also doesn't necessarily teach the bird *NOT* to bite... only that humans are stupid and wont "listen" to the warning signs of "I'M GOING TO BITE YOU IF YOU DON'T BACK OFF", which essentially teaches your bird to bite in order to communicate, as well as teaching the bird to *NOT* give warning signals that they are about to bite. Sure, it works in some cases to get birds to stop biting, but not all.


Iv'e tried wearing protective gloves but when I do he wont come near my hand.

Gloves are scary. I wouldn't want to go near something that scares me either...



Please, take a look at this thread.

http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

 

[clark_conure]

still waiting on an update from juno45 before I recommend one way or the other on any tactical changes.