OMG I'm cushed.

[Danigrrl39]

I just got off the phone with my vet. He finally got the labs back for Romeo. I said hey Doc, hows it going. He said Romeo tested positive for polyoma virus. I'm beside myself.:17:

 

[ChristaNL]

Ohnoes....I am *so* sorry to hear that.
Completely understand you do not like the world very much right now.

On the bright side- on your side of the pond they medicate it.
Antivirals and such.

? Did you get tested because of symptoms or "just because you wanted to know if he had the all clear"?

*Did your doc. offer you to retest?
That is probably the first thing you want to do -- make sure it is not a false-positive.
(they are rare but do happen / not trying to give you any false hope here, but when in doubt: go science!)
* and get your other bird tested as well.
You'll need to do that anyway.
* Contact the breeder! (OMG the store I mean, oh boy...)

afaik: Some birds do not die of it, but can still spread it around.
(Infected parents can have perfectly healthy young one year, and pass it on the the babies the next... why, nobody knows.)


I found several scenarios actually-
some are good news, some not so good.

But if your bird shows no symptoms ...
he could either have been infected in the nest (and not the shop) and weirdly enough-if it happened at a very young age: it will not get sick, but will be possibly still carry the live virus for the rest of its life and possibly infect other birds,
sometimes if they get infected a bit later in life they will test positive at first, but if they do not get really sick the virus will be in the birds system (and show up in tests) for 24 weeks and after that it will be completely gone!
If it keeps showing up (tests) after that period, the bird will probably be a carier for the virus for the rest of its life (short or very long).
Carriers are not scary, just should not be around other birds who are not likewise already infected and more or less imune.
(and not breed if at all possible)

 

[Danigrrl39]

The sale contract said to get everything tested within 7 days. When we went in to get his round of testing, his blood cell counts were way off the chatys. Doc said it would be a bit longer before the results of why would come in. So today was when he recieved the actual diagnosis from the lab. Theres no false positive, unfortunately. His counts for all his white blood cells were super elevated. I contacted the store I got him at. Mainly because they were all babies and in such close proximity.

 

[Danigrrl39]

I hope to god the scenario you posted, would be the scenario were facing. Im preparing myself for the worst, and am just giving him his best birdie life ever.

 

[EllenD]

Oh no, I'm so, so sorry...Is he symptomatic? If so, what signs/symptoms is he displaying?

He was born this past April I see? It's unusual for parrots to acutely die from Polyoma Virus at his age, usually they contract it from their parents or from an infected bird in the breeder's home, and they die within the first 30 days of life...At his age of almost 6 months old, if he's not symptomatic except for his blood-work being off, which is to be expected (especially the elevated WBC count), then there is a good chance that he can survive the disease with supportive care, and extreme sanitary conditions/practices. And even if he is symptomatic, many birds who are first diagnosed at his age or older survive and live normal lifespans, as they often shed the virus...sometimes they suffer from permanent feather abnormalities, but usually if they can survive as long as he has, then it's quite possible that he'll make it...

Has your Avian Vet discussed a plan for him? Even though there is no real "treatment", other than the antivirus drugs that may or may not help, supportive care is necessary if/when he becomes symptomatic...But this is not necessarily a death sentence, not at all...Like I said, most parrots who die from Polyoma die acutely from it shortly after they hatch, or during their first weeks of life...Since he's almost 6 months old, he's got a good chance of getting through it...

I see you have other birds, so it's extremely important to keep them separated, keep everything in your house very clean and vacuumed often, as Polyoma is thought to spread through feathers/dead skin/keratin sheaths, etc...And they do have adult-vaccinations, I believe the last time I had any experience with Polyoma vaccinations for an adult bird, there were two injections, the second one coming like 2 weeks after the first, and then there were intermittent booster shots...but don't quote me on that, as it's been quite a while since I've dealt with that at the Rescue or at the lab at PSU that I worked at...

Don't lose hope, he has a very good chance of surviving at his age, just keep him calm, warm, and extremely clean, lots of clean water, good food (keeping his nutrition up is a must), consider adding a daily avian probiotic to his food to protect/calm his GI Tract, as they often die from secondary bacterial and/or fungal/yeast infections, so the probiotics will help protect him from a yeast infection, as well as help to keep his tummy and GI Tract settled and make him feel good and keep his appetite up, thus keep his strength up and his immune system in good shape (nausea, vomiting, and runny feces are all symptoms of acute Polyoma, so the probiotics will help all the way around, and won't hurt at all, Benebac is a good one)...In addition to a daily Probiotic dose, often Vitamin K injections also help, especially if he suffers any blood loss at all...nutrition, nutrition, nutrition!!! Lots of fresh veggies and dark, leafy greens to keep his nutrition up and to keep him well-hydrated...

Positive energy your way...

 

[ChristaNL]

I was told if you start with those vaccinations, you'd need a yearly booster anyway ...

This is going to be one of our least favorite parts: the waitinggame.
The elevated whitebloodcellcount could actually just have been from the upper respiratoy-whosname he had and not even this virus. But there is only one way to find out : time will tell.

So you do what you've done since you met each other: just love him and make him happy.
It does not really matter if it is for just twenty minutes or twenty years - as long as he feels he is loved it is allright!

 

[Danigrrl39]

I absolutely adore you guys, thank you so much. Ive been planning for palliative care, and hes not showing any symptoms. Poop, ureas, eating, definitely energetic, so totally asymptomatic . His respiratory thing cleared up at least, and his feathers look super. Im guardedly hopeful.

 

[Laurasea]

Such stressful news ! I hate these viruses! I'm glad symptom free, and hope it stays that way!

 

[EllenD]

I absolutely adore you guys, thank you so much. Ive been planning for palliative care, and hes not showing any symptoms. Poop, ureas, eating, definitely energetic, so totally asymptomatic . His respiratory thing cleared up at least, and his feathers look super. Im guardedly hopeful.

Well, to be honest with you then, in my experience with Polyoma, he's in the absolute best-case-scenario that you could ever ask for...He's nearly 6 months old, he's completely asymptomatic, he's eating and acting normally with normal energy levels, and it's very likely that he'll shed the virus and get out of this without even knowing he was sick to begin with. So this is sounding very good right now...Now be careful to clean all dust, dander, feathers, droppings, etc. as thoroughly and often as you can to protect your other birds...And it's good that you contacted the pet shop that he came from...Was he bred by the pet shop, or did he come from a different breeder? They should also be contacted immediately, but that's probably going to be up to the pet shop to contact their breeder/vendor, if it isn't them...

***As far as the vaccinations go, I believe you're correct, at least with the adult vaccinations. I know they get the first vaccination injection and then the second one about 2 weeks later, and then must get a yearly booster, at least that's how it was circa 2003-2005, when I worked in the Avian Diagnostics Lab. Though I have to admit that Polyoma Virus wasn't something that we got a lot of positive tests for, as it usually effects newly-hatched chicks most often, and they most-often die pretty quickly from it when they are that young or when they are "acutely sick", there's little to nothing you can do about that. But whenever we would get a positive, the owner/vet/breeder would immediately want to automatically vaccinate their other adult birds, and they wouldn't listen to reason when we'd tell them we had to first test their other birds before vaccinating them...Treatments/vaccines may have changed greatly since then, and I've not seen a single case of Polyoma at the Rescue in the last 8 years...

 

[LaManuka]

Danigrrl39 I’m so very sorry for your terrible situation, Romeo looks like such a beautiful boy! But he could not be in a more loving home or have a more dedicated mom than you, whatever the outcome he has his best chance of a great life with you.

 

[Danigrrl39]

The bird place contacted me back. Apparently, theyve never had a case of polyoma, and the breeder they use, only has 2 breeding pairs, so its not a large operation. On the plus side, theyre contacting their Vet. They will pay for a second round of testing to be done, to make sure its not a false positive. Although the test was done via dna, but Im not a lab tech, so not sure how that works for false positives, etc. Hes my baby boy and Mochi is my love. Ive waited my entire life to be able to finally have fids of my own, so this is hitting especially hard.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I am so sad, but so grateful you're here with us. I was so uplifted by everyone's comments and knowledge. I can see you were, too.

Where there's life and love, there's hope.

 

[itzjbean]

I am sad to hear this but am glad that shop is taking it upon themselves to pay for another round of testing just to be sure. So sorry you have to go through this though, especially for such an expensive baby.

Keep us updated!!

 

[ChristaNL]

Best case: it turns out to be a false positive, and both birds will get a clean bill of health.

Worse if it is a true positive for both -> the conure gave it to him - also a likely scenario or they already passed it around to each other.
(that means the breeding pair and all the other shopbirds have a good chance of being okay)
Since both are asymptomatic- there is a good chance they will be fine.

Weird: the other birds tests negative, so the macaw brougth it with him from ???
(or the conure already kicked it out of his system)

-> so one big guessing game.
(and I probably missed a few options)

All you can do is re-test ( to confirm) and (if positive) test again after (maybe 3 and certainly) 6 months.
Hang in there!

 

[Inger]

I don’t have anything more to offer other than I’m sending lots of positive, healing thoughts to you and your fids. [emoji3590]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Danigrrl39]

Best case: it turns out to be a false positive, and both birds will get a clean bill of health.

Worse if it is a true positive for both -> the conure gave it to him - also a likely scenario or they already passed it around to each other.
(that means the breeding pair and all the other shopbirds have a good chance of being okay)
Since both are asymptomatic- there is a good chance they will be fine.

Weird: the other birds tests negative, so the macaw brougth it with him from ???
(or the conure already kicked it out of his system)


-> so one big guessing game.
(and I probably missed a few options)

All you can do is re-test ( to confirm) and (if positive) test again after (maybe 3 and certainly) 6 months.
Hang in there!

I dont think mochi would have been able to give it to him, from what i understand, its a 2 week incubation period and we were tested 7 days after coming home, as well as the quarantine area, although the house isnt very large, but weve got central air with a decent filtration setup. So its a small possibility? In any case, mochis got a vet appointment coming up. I hope this is one of those 24 week situations where its like it never existed. I cant imagine my life without either of my fids. What another scenario is, is that they have been lucky with people buying parrots who remained asymptomatic and never bothered getting the tests since it was over 1000 to run them all. No matter what, everyone here is so amazing, so from the bottom of our hearts and beaks, thank you. Even my husband was crushed with the news.

 

[ChristaNL]

It is a nasty disease that likes to hide, so even if the whole planet got tested at the same time ...
The only thing we can do is test when they come in our homes and for breeders not to breed with infected birds
(though some may argue since their babies are "born infected but not get sick" that is the better way to go... )

A virus can slip to almost any filter (unless you actually UV everything to pieces) and you need only one of them...


Keeping my fingers crossed you are going to be one the very lucky ones that end up with completely clean birds.

 

[Danigrrl39]

So a bit of an update: Romeo is totally asymptomatic and the Aviary he came from will pay for a new test if they think its warranted. Personally, after getting over the knee jerk reaction, and talking to several avian specialists, everyone seems to come to the conclusion, its a total false positive. His labs are indicitive of a super young bird, and not a sick one. His color and energy levels are super. Stool and urates are good, he is definitely not losing weight, either. Little bugger is super happy, and I think he said I love you last night when i said its birdy bed time. Hes also starting to be extremely bonded. His new trick is running down the side of his cage and running after me while attempting to fly. His wings were cut super short when i got him, and im letting them grow out as i did with Mochi. The two of them got spoiled yesterday with new toys. However, I think their favorite toy, is me. Fingers crossed, I think we're good.

 

[EllenD]

So a bit of an update: Romeo is totally asymptomatic and the Aviary he came from will pay for a new test if they think its warranted. Personally, after getting over the knee jerk reaction, and talking to several avian specialists, everyone seems to come to the conclusion, its a total false positive. His labs are indicitive of a super young bird, and not a sick one. His color and energy levels are super. Stool and urates are good, he is definitely not losing weight, either. Little bugger is super happy, and I think he said I love you last night when i said its birdy bed time. Hes also starting to be extremely bonded. His new trick is running down the side of his cage and running after me while attempting to fly. His wings were cut super short when i got him, and im letting them grow out as i did with Mochi. The two of them got spoiled yesterday with new toys. However, I think their favorite toy, is me. Fingers crossed, I think we're good.

It's a very strange case of Polyoma, if it is in-fact a false-positive...However, it is quite possible that he does actually have the virus, but because he's 6 months-old and a healthy bird, his immune system is easily shedding the virus, which is why he's completely asymptomatic, and he'll be totally fine.

I would guess that many hundreds of pet birds who are older juveniles to adults have Polyoma and their owners never know a thing about it because the birds are completely asymptomatic, they shed the virus, and that's it. It's like it never happened, never existed, and it's over with...

From what i can remember from working at the Avian Influenza Lab at PSU, when it comes to Polyoma Virus, most-all of the horrible cases where the birds are very horribly sick and always die from it are newly-hatched baby birds who are under a month old, and then also very young babies who were under the 3-4 month-old mark, any older and they typically have the immune systems to fight the virus off and shed the virus. The reason is because #1) They're contracting it from their parent birds or other infected birds carrying the virus in the breeder's home/aviary/pet shop where they were bred/hatched/raised, and then #2) Because their immune systems are totally underdeveloped...This is one of the reasons why breeders should always wait to pull chicks from the nest-box until they are at least 2 weeks old, because their immune systems are extremely fragile, as they are not fully developed, and I'll say this again even though people disagree with me, because newly-hatched chicks need to be fed by their mothers for their first 2 weeks of life because they get much-needed antibodies from their mother's "crop milk", which no, is not actually "milk", but is called "crop milk", and does contain necessary and very important antibodies for the newly-hatched chicks...

So with any birds that are older and contract Polyoma, they typically never become symptomatic at all because their immune systems (if in good-health) fight it off, shed the virus, and it's like they never had it to begin with...Hopefully that's exactly what is going on here, and it sounds like it is...

***As far as the "False-Positive" test goes, when we tested samples sent-in for Polyoma Virus, I believe we tested both blood AND fecal swabs/cultures from the vent/cloaca, and I believe it had to be whole blood and not serum...I'm trying to remember this, as it's been since 2003 since I actually did this testing, but I think it was one of the tests that was best done when you had BOTH a blood sample AND a Fecal Swab...You're testing for the Polyoma DNA itself in the samples, using both PCR and immunoflouresence, BUT we didn't have access to an Electron Microscope at the time, as the one that was a part of the Animal Diagnostic Lab at the time was not located in the Avian Influeza Lab, and could not be "contaminated" with avian samples for active testing, because there was only one guy who used it, and he wasn't doing active testing, but rather research of mammalian viruses...But I you can test for it by looking at a whole blood sample under an Electron Scope...

***So a false-positive is always a very good possibility...I'm going to assume that your Vet did PCR testing, and as someone who has run a million PCR tests, as well as ELISA Assays on blood serum, I can tell you that human-error can always play a factor, even with simply kit tests that require several washings of the samples after the use of several different reagents with them...All it takes is one little mistake and BAM!, false-positive...

****Interestingly enough, I do actually remember a case that happened at the University of Pennsylvania Veterinary School's testing laboratory, where they were commonly using an Electron Microscope to diagnose most-all of the viruses that they could, instead of running PCR or ELISA testing, as it's quicker, cheaper once you already have the Scope, etc. They were testing an entire Sanctuary population for PBFD, and they all came back as being Positive for PBFD, testing done under an Electron Microscope...So they actually went ahead and euthanized several dozen adult parrots who were diagnosed as having PBFD...Well, after the Sanctuary had already euthanized all of these poor parrots, our lab had also been sent samples from the same birds to do PCR testing for PBFD, which takes much longer than Electron Microscope testing...why they didn't wait I have no idea, but our PCR tests were all negative for PBFD...Turned out that these birds didn't have PBFD, but rather Polyoma Virus, who's DNA is extremely similar to that of PBFD...oops...So there ya have it, false-positive happen all the time...that was a tragic and horrible event, and I think we re-ran and re-ran the PCR as many times as we could until they accepted the fact that the birds they had killed did not have PBFD...

Anyway, either way, whether a false-positive or a true-positive, it sounds like your guy is going to be just fine. It's a huge worry nonetheless, I know...If he actually is positive for Polyoma, it's definitely a mystery as to where it came from, and how long he's been carrying it or how he was able to carry it for so long without it being shed...something doesn't add-up quite right, but either way, what's important is that he's completely fine and showing no active signs or symptoms of having the virus...

 

[Laurasea]

I hoping both birds have long and happy love filled lives!! With as muchove and dedication and money we spend on our Fids I hope they can make better advances in the science, cure, and vaccines for these diseases.