Milligold attitude

[Joannr24]

So the milligold I just bought seems to be turning into a bully and knows I am intimidated. Yesterday he bit quite a few times when I tried to get him out and the bites HURT!!! I spoke with great breeder I know in Az and she said milligolds are not a good first macaw because they can be very aggressive and confident. She said they get this from the military.
Do any of you have experience with milligolds? She suggested a blue and gold as a first but I am wondering if I am too timid to own a macaw? I love my U2 and my grey but maybe a macaw is too much.
What do you all think? Are all macaws bitey esp with people slightly intimidated?
I have a great home for the milligold with someone who owns macaws and will love him. I'm out a lot of money but I still feel like I saved the bird from a bad situation.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Yes, ALL big macs will take FULL advantage when they sense you are intimidated, including B&Gs, Green Wings, Harlequins, etc. You must be confident when you are owned by one of these big guys/gals, no doubt about that.

I do feel, however, that you aren't giving Toby enough time. Has he even settled in yet? Is he always trying to bite, or only occasionally?

Of course the decision will be entirely up to you, and if you feel you can't overcome feeling timid about that can opener that's attached to his face, then it will probably be in his (and your) best interest to place him with an experienced person.

 

[MonicaMc]

Have you considered doing any target training with your miligold? If you do it right, you can teach your miligold to step up without biting. When teaching target training (aka touch training) you *DO NOT* want to get bit. The only bite, after all, that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs! Also, with this kind of training, there is *NO* reason to use a towel against a bird whatsoever!


I have a couple of videos of target training a B&G for example. Barbara Heidenreich is the trainer in these two videos.



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4DjiRJu5gQ"]Part 1 - Target Training B&G Macaw with Barbara Heidenreich at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnlHAHKmP5c"]Part 2 - Target Training B&G Macaw with Barbara Heidenreich at Rodies Feed & Pet Supply - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Joannr24]

Ohhhh I like the target training idea!! I'll look into that.

 

[MonicaMc]

Please let us know if you try it, and if you have any problems, feel free to ask!


The two animal/bird trainers I met in April (Lara Joseph & Barbara Heidenreich) both highly recommend target training as the first behavior taught! Even before step up! The reason why is that you can teach so many behaviors simply by teaching target training first!

 

[Kiwibird]

It is way too soon to really have any idea about this birds personality. Put yourself in his place- he was in one home for however long, was given up to someone who dragged him to however many shows/had him for sale in a store until you got him, and now he's in an entirely new home. He is probably frightened, confused and has no idea if you are there to be kind to him or want to hurt/neglect/abandon him. Plus, even the meanest, most vicious birds *CAN* be worked with and become very sweet and loving once they LEARN humans (or at least you) are trustworthy and only have kind intentions with them. It's all about building trust and establishing boundaries of behavior in a way the bird can understand.

Our amazon was not tame and pretty vicious when we adopted him. Mind you, he had suffered through years of inadequate care/distrusting people, but we were persistent and consistent and he is a very sweet, intelligent, curious bird now. It is possible. I would take monicamc's advice if I were you and start right off the bat with target training. The more I learn about it, the more I think it's a better way to go about training a bird. Easier and more effective quicker. We trained Kiwi the hard way (old school), and it took a lot of bites and a couple years to build that trust and bring the sweetheart he is out. I would give your new buddy a fair chance, and I would start with the target training. The next thing I would move on to is stick training. Every bird is going to bite at some point for some reason, and having the bird be stick trained is a good way to prevent bites as you learn his body language cues. Best of luck.

 

[Joannr24]

Well well well -- some here may not like this but I am thrilled.

I spoke with a guy at a big rescue operation in Phoenix who has worked with problem birds for 40 years. Super nice guy. He said get him the heck out of that cage and don't let him go above you on top. I told him I couldn't get him out I didn't' want to get bit. So I said would it be bad if I shooed him off the cage and let him flutter down. he said well it's not ideal but you need to get him off that cage because he thinks he is running the show.
So I went in the house with all of my "I am woman, hear me roar" I could get. I opened the cage and took the long stick and just guided him off the cage. he was like um yeah right. So I kept at it and finally he fluttered down.
Once on the ground he was my bff. I walked over gave him my arm and calmly said step up. Guess what, he stepped up! No issues, no biting. he is now on a manzanita play stand. I have picked him up with a perch and with my arm about five times. Each time no issues. he even stuck his foot out at me to play. I scratched his head too. He is now on his play stand eating. I periodically take the step up perch and just ask him to move down the play stand and he does it. He's a different bird. Now that he's out we will start click stuff and interactive stuff. So here's hoping we are on our way to a good friendship.

 

[BirdyMomma]

I can tell you, that when we first got Wingnut, our Military Macaw, I was intimidated by him. Target training is the way to go. Not only is it a means of developing the mechanics of safe handling of your bird, but it will also build a relationship based on trust, and confidence. I target train all our birds, and now I regularly have my fingers held quite gently in that big black beak that I used to be weary of.
Be patient. It takes time.

Just saw your other post. Once you are confident with having him step up, you can also try what I do if one of my birds won't come down from up high. I grab a chair, and get higher then him. It's no fun after that, and they come right to me

 

[Joannr24]

LOL. I got a step stool because the highest part of the playpen makes him taller than me. We are on the same page. I am so excited now because I can actually start working with him.

 

[horsesculpter]

Our beloved Sunny was a rehome on her fourth home and she hated us. She growled, bit, hissed, etc. for weeks but it was her fear causing it. Yes we got bit, many times and hard but it didn't cause permanent damage, just pain and compared to what she was going through, it was nothing. She is now our child and best friend but it took time. I was never afraid of her and maybe that helped, but she was distraught over losing her previous family and terrified. Please put yourself in your birds shoes. This is a traumatic change for a bird who expected to live he rest of their life with one flock.

 

[Joannr24]

Excellent point horse sculpter. You are correct. I am just happy that once I got him off the cage he became sweet again. I can't wait to start this target training and start clicker training with him like I've been doing with my grey.

 

[GW.Joe]

Well well well -- some here may not like this but I am thrilled.

I spoke with a guy at a big rescue operation in Phoenix who has worked with problem birds for 40 years. Super nice guy. He said get him the heck out of that cage and don't let him go above you on top. I told him I couldn't get him out I didn't' want to get bit. So I said would it be bad if I shooed him off the cage and let him flutter down. he said well it's not ideal but you need to get him off that cage because he thinks he is running the show.
So I went in the house with all of my "I am woman, hear me roar" I could get. I opened the cage and took the long stick and just guided him off the cage. he was like um yeah right. So I kept at it and finally he fluttered down.
Once on the ground he was my bff. I walked over gave him my arm and calmly said step up. Guess what, he stepped up! No issues, no biting. he is now on a manzanita play stand. I have picked him up with a perch and with my arm about five times. Each time no issues. he even stuck his foot out at me to play. I scratched his head too. He is now on his play stand eating. I periodically take the step up perch and just ask him to move down the play stand and he does it. He's a different bird. Now that he's out we will start click stuff and interactive stuff. So here's hoping we are on our way to a good friendship.

Good For You !!! Like I tell my daughter: Overcoming the fear is more than worth the LOVE of the Bird !!

Don't give up, The relationship you reap is worth it!!

Joe

 

[MonicaMc]

The person you spoke with probably believes in the belief that if a parrot is higher than you, then it is dominant over you.

Dominance doesn't exist in parrots. Parrots simply enjoy being higher because they feel safe higher.


You're right though, I don't agree. I don't agree that a bird should be scared into being handled. I don't agree with the idea that birds shouldn't be higher than our heads. Although I don't have a large parrot, I do have flighted birds that are often above me. Out of 7 birds, I can get 6 of them to fly down to me without using force. The 7th one wont, but only because I haven't worked with her.

If I had a larger bird (which may or may not be a possibility this year - and it would be a cockatoo, if it does happen), I'd probably still be fine with having the bird higher than my head, and I'm a short person.



The advice you were given was not based on positive reinforcement training.

 

[Joannr24]

I respect your opinion MonicaMc. To address your concerns, I would have preferred a different method as well. However the bird was becoming very bitey and he has a big beak.
My cockatoo that I've had for fourteen years is always above my head and so is my grey.
As I said in my previous post now I will start clicker training as I've done with my other birds. Unfortunately I was stuck in this instance and I needed something drastic to get him down.
Now I'm excited to get past this and start really playing with him.

 

[Kiwibird]

I think it's great you've overcome this hurdle and can now make positive steps forward. While they may not have a flock "leader" in nature, they most certainly get in scraps and one bird does come out the winner. There are also members within a flock who are a bit more dominant simply because they are bigger, stronger, more experience ect... My parents have a bonded pair of zons (together for 40 years) and they occasionally get in a "fight". Usually the larger female wins, and after she has asserted her dominance, they go back to being a loving "couple" again. They don't hold grudges or analyze their "disagreement" and the male gets a reminder of who rules the roost so to speak. To me, you and the macaw got in a stand off and you won. He is obviously not holding a grudge, you did not hurt him and he learned that your not so timid after all. That's how animals behave and think, you've done nothing wrong. If anything, he tested you and found out exactly where he stands with you and now you can move on to bigger and better things

 

[Joannr24]

Thanks Kiwi!! I agree. I have horses and this is similar. As you said, he wasn't hurt at all, he was just moved off his big perch (the cage). He showed no signs at all of being traumatized. I think he was just like well, crap I guess I'm not top bird. I just played with him this morning and he's fine. Relaxed and letting me pet him.

 

[Birdman666]

Some obvious dynamics.

1. Militaries can be very beaky. So it stands to reason that military cross breeds are also beaky.

2. This bird is in the "testing" phase. It takes a firm hand to pass the test.

3. "Height dominance" itself is a myth. BUT the truth is that these birds are smart enough to know when you are not in a position to control them, and when you are.

4. Put a bird on the ground, he will WANT to step up for you. I've been using that little trick to my advantage with aggressive macaws for years.

5. Thumb and index finger on the fat part of the beak, is enough to control this bird. The beak may be powerful, but the neck is not. ONCE HE KNOWS you are in a position to control him, that stuff will stop.

 

[GW.Joe]

Some obvious dynamics.

1. Militaries can be very beaky. So it stands to reason that military cross breeds are also beaky.

2. This bird is in the "testing" phase. It takes a firm hand to pass the test.

3. "Height dominance" itself is a myth. BUT the truth is that these birds are smart enough to know when you are not in a position to control them, and when you are.

4. Put a bird on the ground, he will WANT to step up for you. I've been using that little trick to my advantage with aggressive macaws for years.

5. Thumb and index finger on the fat part of the beak, is enough to control this bird. The beak may be powerful, but the neck is not. ONCE HE KNOWS you are in a position to control him, that stuff will stop.

Love it, Great Post Man !!

 

[Chesphoto]

have a bonded pair of zons (together for 40 years) and they occasionally get in a "fight". Usually the larger female wins, and after she has asserted her dominance, they go back to being a loving "couple" again. They don't hold grudges or analyze their "disagreement" and the male gets a reminder of who rules the roost so to speak.

Trust me, this isn't just in the bird world... Hold on, my wife is calling me...

 

[Chesphoto]

Joannr24, if you live in the Phoenix area, you may want to join our facebook group. Actually, anyone here is welcomed to join, but the idea of the group is to meetup and even bring your birds. Hopefully help each other out with training and socializing our parrots.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/567240283351224/

Tom