Milligold attitude

[Birdman666]

I think I've done a number of posts on this subject, but my answer to biting macaws is to (1) first and foremost put myself in a position not only to where I can control the bird, but also WHERE THE BIRD KNOWS he can be controlled.

That's step one. Introducing this bird to Mr. Towel, and stepping him up with two fingers on the beak, generally does an attitude adjustment.

If he goes to latch on when you let go of the beak, you shake your arm to get him off balance BEFORE HE CAN LATCH ON, and he immediately goes to the floor. He can sit there for a moment and "think about it." Then he doesn't get up, until he steps up nice. Repeat until he "gets it."

If he is a habitual biter, wrap a large towel around your perch arm before stepping him up, until you have trained him out of this. The same rules apply, however, we don't want him biting the towel either. Meet Mr. Floor...

Macaws ALL OF THEM are attention oriented. The withholding and giving of attention is your number one training tool. USE IT! Withhold attention when they act up. SHOWER with attention when they are good birds.

Macaw training 101.

Oh, and you have already learned this one: THESE BIRDS KNOW WHO IS, AND WHO ISN'T AFRAID OF THEM. IF YOU ARE NOT, THEY DON'T BOTHER YOU. IF YOU ARE, THEY KEEP IT UP UNTIL YOU DEMONSTRATE TO THEM YOU ARE NOT. THEY WILL CONTINUE TO TEST UNTIL THEY ARE SURE!

 

[Birdman666]

Yes, ALL big macs will take FULL advantage when they sense you are intimidated, including B&Gs, Green Wings, Harlequins, etc. You must be confident when you are owned by one of these big guys/gals, no doubt about that.

I do feel, however, that you aren't giving Toby enough time. Has he even settled in yet? Is he always trying to bite, or only occasionally?

Of course the decision will be entirely up to you, and if you feel you can't overcome feeling timid about that can opener that's attached to his face, then it will probably be in his (and your) best interest to place him with an experienced person.

Absolultely agree with this 100%.

Many, many, many people cause their own bites with these guys. Wishy-washy does not work with a macaw. They don't respond to it. They take advantage of it. They will test, and push boundaries, until the boundaries are set and enforced. THEN they accept them, and stop acting up.

 

[Birdman666]

Joann,

The height thing with a macaw may be a myth in the thinking that its not their logic to get higher and be a butthead, but in reality, once they are easily up and out of reach, they many times display butthead behavior I could not count how many times we've seen it at the shelter, happens all the time with macaws. Maybe its not their intent, but they know they can, so why not have some fun with the puny humans


I laughed at his Macaw 101 lesson analogy, we did exactly the same thing at the shelter with learning to handle Max and macaws in general. Ironically, they use the same methods and are extremely successful with rehabbing macaws!

That's where I learned it. Working with the big boys down at the rescue. Then I started teaching it...

Height dominance is a myth. They don't dominate because they are up high. My playstands and cages are all taller than I am, my Greenwing has to bend down for kisses...

What you have with a bird that is up high, is a bird that is (1) not in a position to be controlled, and (2) not completely tame or trained, and (3) in the best position it has in captivity to defend itself, and refuse to "cooperate." Think of this more as a measuring stick. When your bird is up high if he goes from lunging at you to begging for scratches and kisses, AND IS STILL ABOVE YOU, you have succeeded. He is tame and trained. (In the meantime, watch your fingers and your lips!)

While you can stop this stuff by lowering everything the bird has access to, the real way to stop it is to be (1) head bird in charge, and (2) get the bird to a point where he trusts you. Once you get to that point, it won't matter where they are, they won't act up. Until you get to that point, they will tend to act up whenever they are in a position to do so, and they are MOST in a position to do so, when UP HIGH ABOVE YOU.

"Now I'm in charge."

Ummm... Mr. Stick, Mr. Floor, and Mr. Towel all disagree with you bird!

NOW STEP UP NICE!!!

 

[Birdman666]

Joann,

And anyone who says you don't put the bird in a position to bite, has never dealt with a macaw especially.

They are deceptively fast aren't they?! And if you are within reach of that beak, even if they have to stretch for it, they are in a position to bite. I swear that neck stretches to twice it's normal length the second you turn your head, or let your guard down...

So, stand maybe 3 feet back?! Unless he's flighted... Then be prepared to run. Not that it will help because the bird generally flies faster than most people can run! So, he's still in a position to bite, you just get a head start...

Duck and cover?!

And if even if he isn't flighted, I've seen dominant macaws climb down their cages, go big bird, and chase people around the house, with intent to remove toes! (Cuz they're dumb enough to run! That's a great game to teach a dominant big mac!) It is however, amazing, how quickly a dominant macaw becomes a not-so-dominant macaw, when you pick up a couch cushion, and back his little butt into a corner with it. Still a fun game bird?! Didn't think so...! Now KNOCK IT OFF, AND STEP UP NICE...

True story! Lo, and behold, the bird stepped up nice for me. And promptly turned and lunged for the owner's nose. WHY, IF I WAS NEGATIVELY REINFORCING HIM, AND IT WAS DAMAGING HIS PSYCHE, WAS I THE ONE HE BEHAVED FOR?! Might have something to do with not wanting to have his little feathered butt backed into a corner again for misbehaving! Who cares if my owner loses HIS nose. It's not like he's actually gonna do something about it...

That is a very real component with macaws that act up! BECAUSE THEY CAN! THAT'S WHY!!!

The answer of course, is the same as the answer for out of control human toddlers. SAME IQ. On some level, attention and boundary setting are acts of love. They want to see what they can get away with, but they know when they are out of control and everyone is unhappy. MAKE HAPPY BETTER. THAT is the POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT HERE. We want to co-exist like that. We get there by behaving and being nice.

 

[Birdman666]

One last thing and then I'll shut up.

The idea here isn't to bully the bird into submission. The idea here is to set boundaries, and prevent biting.

It doesn't hurt a bird to set it on the floor, to prevent it from biting you. The idea here is to get the bird to associates If I go to bite, she will get mad and , put me on the floor, where I feel most vulnerable, and realize that this person is actually much, much bigger than I am, that I just made mad. [Survival instinct = Note to self: Don't pick fights with things that are much bigger than you, that are also in a position to control you.]

In nature, you don't have to reinforce that lesson more than once. In fact, they are lucky to survive the ONCE...

The idea behind backing an aggressive bird into a corner is that you can't have the bird taking people's toes off...

It doesn't hurt the bird to sit there in the corner with you blocking his path, but it definitely reinforces the point of "Don't pick fights with things that are bigger than you..." You keep him there until he calms down, and then you reinforce the "step up" exercises until he is calm, and doing what he needs to do, politely. THEN YOU REWARD THE BIRD FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR.

Backing him into the corner isn't a form of punishment. It is AN EXPRESSION OF SELF DEFENSE. I AM NOT GOING TO HURT YOU, BUT I WILL NOT LET YOU HURT ME, OR ANYONE ELSE...

The positive reward is getting off the floor when he steps up nice. Followed by positive interaction, and treats, before being returned to the cage. It ends on a positive note, with the bird remembering the positive, and also sure as hell remembering what is gonna happen if he goes after your toes, or your nose again....

PERMISSIVE PARENTING DOES NOT WORK WITH MACAWS. THEY NEED BOUNDARIES. NO BITE AND STEP UP NICE ARE THE FIRST BOUNDARIES YOU SET...

 

[GW.Joe]

I swear that neck stretches to twice it's normal length the second you turn your head, or let your guard down...

Yes, I saw one of those once, Its called a "MacSnap" scary little buggers!!

 

[Birdman666]

Now that's some funny stuff!

 

[GW.Joe]

But seriously, I agree with everything you are saying, My Zon loved me BUT he did "test" me once in a while
I did find that if I put him back in his cage for "bad" behavior he would get it and act nicer

Part of any "training" is being very consistent, handle the problem exactly the same everytime

My Zon knew when he stepped over the line because my vocal response was the same every time, for example, if it was during his normal time out of the cage he knew his action caused a quick return to the cage with a scolding "bad bird"

It got to the point that I would say bad bird and he didn't want to go to the cage so he would try and "love" me LOL

I would leave him in the cage for a modest 10 minutes and that would completely change his persona

So remember, whatever method you use, Be Consistent !!

Joe

 

[Joannr24]

Birdman thank you so much!! I can't believe how smart toby is. One time today he jumped off his perch and made a run for the cage. He got there and said NOPE gave him my arm and he jumped back on. He's not biting much at all. If I take my palm over his head he will kind of strike to be snarky but I say no and pet his head.
However, tonight, he started trying to run up my arm to get to my shoulder which I get is normal. I put my palm in front of his face to stop him like I was told but he ignored it and with his beak open tried to run up. At that point, I shook him to the floor. I just didn't want to get bit.
What do I do when he is on my forearm to keep him on my forearm and not allow him to climb his way up?
The guy I spoke to at the rescue yesterday had the same attitude as you Birdman and it transferred to me. I don't care what he does I still look at him and say look you little bleep bleep step up. The guy at the rescue actually said I should take the cage away until he learns his place. He said he should live on this big manzanita playpen I have for a while. I ignored him and put him back on the cage today and YEP went right back to being a turd so we had to repeat last night. He isn't mean by any means, he is not charging but he is definitely testing. So if you have any tips on how to keep them down on your forearm Id really appreciate it and what is mr towel??
You all have been so nice and so supportive of me. I really really appreciate it.

 

[GW.Joe]

What do I do when he is on my forearm to keep him on my forearm and not allow him to climb his way up?

When I am trying to keep a large bird from running up my arm I put a large perch or dowel at the birds neck/top of wing level between climbing up my arm and the bird

Seems to work well for me, I just say "Noooo" and hold the stick there, then try to give him a peanut for staying where he belongs

Soon you won't need the stick, just some peanuts

Any more experienced people please correct me if I'm wrong for doing it that way

Hope that helps

Joe

 

[Joannr24]

Oh Joe that sounds like a super idea. I will try that.

 

[Kiwibird]

The idea here isn't to bully the bird into submission. The idea here is to set boundaries, and prevent biting.

PERMISSIVE PARENTING DOES NOT WORK WITH MACAWS. THEY NEED BOUNDARIES. NO BITE AND STEP UP NICE ARE THE FIRST BOUNDARIES YOU SET...

This thought process applies to all large parrots. You can handle aggression differently in smaller birds, as they simply do not have the capacity to inflict the same level of damage a bigger one can (especially one of those macaws!). A budgie bite is not the same as a bird with a beak that can split a wood dowel.

And while you can't force a bird into loving you, but you also shouldn't allow one to bully you either. I personally feel allowing a bird to be in a "position of power" (i.e., high up, on a shoulder, flying over you if flighted), is a privilege that comes with time. Trust is a 2 way street, and you trusting your bird is every bit as important as him trusting you. Kiwi was NOT allowed to be above me until he stepped up on command, was stick trained and was able to clearly communicate his emotions (or more, I recognized his specific signs of aggression). I have no problems allowing Kiwi to be up high now, he even likes to sit behind my head and play with my hair, but when we first got him, there was no way in hell he was going to be in a position to easily attack me and me have no recourse. And I cannot stress enough- learn your birds subtle signs of aggression. That is the *best* way to prevent a bite- know when he's pissed off and have a set way to handle it. Personally, I use a stick with a big piece of pink duct tape in the middle. When Kiwi is in a foul mood, he rides the stick. The pink tape marks a clear boundary he has been TAUGHT not to cross- he stays on his side of the line and my hand stays on mine. We have a much more positive interaction that way when he is not feeling so friendly. Other people will use a towel or a glove. That's up to you, but you do need to start training Toby with one of those 3 options so you can deal with him when he isn't feeling so nice. Remember, even very sweet birds have the occasional bad day, may become aggressive when frightened, and when they hit sexual maturity, they sprout fangs, horns and are possessed by demons during the mating season.

I think you are on the right track with Toby, and he is still VERY new to you. So long as you continue using common sense and overall positive interactions (while still maintaining a position of authority when necessary), he will be a good boy in no time

 

[MonicaMc]

To keep a bird on your hand/forearm, it would be best to reward the bird for remaining there. Keep giving the bird rewards/treats for remaining in the spot you want. If the bird moves to a position you do not want, you can lure or target the bird back to where you want the bird to be at.

In fact, if you teach your macaw to target, you could keep him target to your wrist area.

 

[Birdman666]

1. I bend the arm at the elbow, and keep it tucked into my side. The bird now has to climb up my shoulder to get there.

2. When he walks toward my shoulder, I put my other hand on my forearm between him, and where he wants to go. The only way to get there is by stretching, and using his beak. If he does, the hand comes up underneath the beak, and with two fingers, I can prevent him from doing that.

3. In other words, I control the bird. That's "No shoulders." That is the command I use. If he attempts to bite me, then, what always happens when a bird tries to bite me happens. Meet Mr. Floor. Now step up. No shoulders. Thank you. Good bird!

Simple, no stress. No fussing. You're just not gonna be allowed up there. Do this once or twice and they get it. Tusk learned this one in an hour, or less...

I only have one bird who does not have shoulder privileges. My CAG displacement bites when he gets nervous. Therefore, he is never allowed next to my face. The other four - two amazons, two macaws - both "no-no" birds if you believe the book - which I obviously don't - are perfectly fine up there...

 

[Kiwibird]

Typically, I carry Kiwi on my hand, with my thumb (gently) gripping his toes. That's how I was raised to hold parrots, and (for a bird his size, at least) it seems to be a more stable and secure option. However, macaws are much much larger than an amazon, so an arm may be a better place for them than a hand would be. Kiwi does ride on my arm occasionally, but it's a tad awkward for both of us as he isn't as stable there, so he sinks his talons into my flesh for a better grip. I also use the "bend at the elbow" trick if he is on my arm to keep him off my shoulder.

How is Toby doing BTW?

 

[GW.Joe]

Typically, I carry Kiwi on my hand, with my thumb (gently) gripping his toes. That's how I was raised to hold parrots

I was raised that way to, it also lets the bird know you want him/her to stay still

Joe

 

[Birdman666]

I did "no flying off" as part of my training, early on. No thumbs over toes.

I handled too many at one time to have to do that one. For awhile there (when I had 11) I was taking them out five at a time.