Male acting weird during breeding

[JayBro]

And we have been told that they have made one offspring before maybe 7 years ago and the woman that passed away was keeping a website for all of her parrots. On the website she clearly stated that these are a loving pair of male and female.

 

[henpecked]

I bought several "proven pairs" over the years who have turned out the be same sex. I check before investing too much time and money.

 

[JayBro]

I just recently opened the cage so that the female could run out from the cage if necessary and to lure the male out of cage so maybe the hen would get into the nest. Well hen got out of the cage and panicked, she dropped on the mattress and after a little while she flew to the cage. Then the unexpected happened, she popped out an egg, I had no idea it happens so fast so I was unable to prevent it. End result, fourth egg laid, crashed into the floor. Maybe this is why the hen was so anxious to get in, sigh.

 

[JayBro]

I bought several "proven pairs" over the years who have turned out the be same sex. I check before investing too much time and money.

Okay I think it's time to properly DNA sex these fellows. Thanks for your insight as usual.

 

[JayBro]

Okay so we recandled the eggs, here is a picture of the first egg.

Please check it and let me know if this is in fact fertilized egg like we thought.

The second egg had a smaller version of this.

Third had nothing.

 

[sodakat]

The candled egg doesn't look quite right to me but it could be the picture isn't clear enough. Are there blood vessels? Usually there is a small mass that the vessels radiate from. How many days after laying was it candled?

If candled today (day 9 right?) there should be an obvious air sac on one end I think with definite little dark mass where chick is forming, surrounded by a not quite as dark area. So hard to describe.

 

[JayBro]

The candled egg doesn't look quite right to me but it could be the picture isn't clear enough. Are there blood vessels? Usually there is a small mass that the vessels radiate from. How many days after laying was it candled?

If candled today (day 9 right?) there should be an obvious air sac on one end I think with definite little dark mass where chick is forming, surrounded by a not quite as dark area. So hard to describe.

We will try to get a better picture.

 

[JayBro]

Unfortunately this is the best we can get.

Left is the oldest, it was candled just now and it was laid 9 days ago
Right is the youngest and it was also candled now. Youngest was laid 4 days ago.

 

[sodakat]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is a fertile egg. Here is a page with pictures of candled eggs showing development day by day:

Chick Development inside the Egg: From Egg to Parrot

 

[JayBro]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is a fertile egg. Here is a page with pictures of candled eggs showing development day by day:

Chick Development inside the Egg: From Egg to Parrot

We can see the embryo when we see it here but the picture is really bad. No blood vessels though, I thought that unfertilized egg has absolutely nothing, but it can have embryo can it?

 

[sodakat]

JayBro,

Call/contact Jean Pattison, African Queen. She's an expert and I'm sure will help you!

About Jean Pattison and Tim Pattison - African Queen Aviaries

 

[sodakat]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is a fertile egg. Here is a page with pictures of candled eggs showing development day by day:

Chick Development inside the Egg: From Egg to Parrot

We can see the embryo when we see it here but the picture is really bad. No blood vessels though, I thought that unfertilized egg has absolutely nothing, but it can have embryo can it?

No, an unfertilized egg won't have an embryo, but it will have a yolk. I too see something in that egg, sort of a circle, but it just doesn't look like any fertile egg I've candled.

I hope I'm wrong!

 

[JayBro]

I'm sorry, but I don't think that is a fertile egg. Here is a page with pictures of candled eggs showing development day by day:

Chick Development inside the Egg: From Egg to Parrot

We can see the embryo when we see it here but the picture is really bad. No blood vessels though, I thought that unfertilized egg has absolutely nothing, but it can have embryo can it?

No, an unfertilized egg won't have an embryo, but it will have a yolk. I too see something in that egg, sort of a circle, but it just doesn't look like any fertile egg I've candled.

I hope I'm wrong!

Okay I did some research and came across this website The Parrot Breeder's Answer Book - Gayle Soucek - Google Books

The conclusion is that these 2 eggs seems to had been fertile, but the embryo has died for some reason, and they have become simply blood rings, so called dead in a shell egg. Does this make any sense? And if this has happened, why, lack of incubation, lack of vitamins, etc?

 

[JayBro]

We now suspect that the reason for early embryonic death is lack of incubation. Seems that this pair is really rusty when it comes to breeding.

 

[sodakat]

I'm not convinced that is a blood ring, but you may be right.

 

[henpecked]

I think the one on the left is fertile and it might be to early to tell on the last one. IMO

 

[sodakat]

I hope it's okay that I showed the picture of 9 day and 4 day to my friend who's been candling eggs for 40 years. Both appear infertile to him unfortunately. I hope Henpecked is right and we are wrong.

It isn't too costly to do a DNA test, so maybe you could get the larger bird tested, just for peace of mind.

 

[JayBro]

I hope it's okay that I showed the picture of 9 day and 4 day to my friend who's been candling eggs for 40 years. Both appear infertile to him unfortunately. I hope Henpecked is right and we are wrong.

It isn't too costly to do a DNA test, so maybe you could get the larger bird tested, just for peace of mind.

Of course it's okay. Yeah I know it's not expensive, maybe we will do it. We are just so convinced that they are male and female :/

 

[Echo]

Well if the eggs hatch then they were fertile..... I mean time will tell. And you can add a second nest for the "female" too. By taking and handling the eggs, if indeed they are a breeding pair and they don't know/trust you well enough, you are jeopardizing possible babies. Why not let whoever wants to sit on the eggs sit, add another box, and wait and see. If you don't get any fertile eggs, I would leave them for a while and let them sit. Once the breeding season is over, DNA test both of them.

 

[JayBro]

Well if the eggs hatch then they were fertile..... I mean time will tell. And you can add a second nest for the "female" too. By taking and handling the eggs, if indeed they are a breeding pair and they don't know/trust you well enough, you are jeopardizing possible babies. Why not let whoever wants to sit on the eggs sit, add another box, and wait and see. If you don't get any fertile eggs, I would leave them for a while and let them sit. Once the breeding season is over, DNA test both of them.

Yeah you're right. We decided to separate the male (assuming he's a male) and put him into another cage right next to the female. Maybe the female will continue to incubate even if it was for rehearse. We have taken this attempt so far as a learning experience. Reason why we separated the male was because the behavior kept going and female even tried to incubate but male made it impossible.

It also would seem that the male didn't even incubate in the first place, just blocked the entry from the hen. This wasn't nest abandonment I'm quite sure since he did let him go there for like 2 hours then he flipped again. And if it was, we are to blame and from that we definitely learned something. That's when we removed him to separate cage. We will conduct a sexing test of the assumed male parrot. Since I witnessed the egg pop from the female before.

From my point of view this topic can be closed now.

Thanks for every helpful reply from everyone!