Male acting weird during breeding

[JayBro]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and I came here to find help for a dilemma of our breeding pair behaviour

I know that this forum might not concern breeders or issues related to breeding but I am desperate so I'm going to give it a shot anyways.

I was hoping that you could maybe help me out, we are feeling so clueless right now.

Okay so the case is that we bought our African grey breeding pair nearly a year ago. They are roughly 15 years old and they have been together firmly for about 10 years.
There is known to be one offspring from them before at their old previous home. Now the male suddenly started to get horny and he wanted to mate with the female but obviously the she wasn't into it since at the time time we still didn't have our breeding box. Since the male's pressuring behavior towards the female started to worry us, we decided to try and install a breeding box. It turned out to be a great choice. It also affected positively towards the males attitude, he no longer screeched randomly and he just all of sudden got really friendly. This pair is semi wild, not tame but not totally wild either.

After that the hen started to warm up and they decided to start to mate and breed.

Now they have been breeding for 5 weeks and the female has laid 3 eggs which she sat on really tightly. Now the previous night and last night the male started to block the entry from the female to the breeding box and nipped her and she made this weird noise whenever the male is picking on the female, there hasn't been blood so far and milder similar behavior has happened before every now and then, male picking on the female but nothing serious. But now it is being quite serious, the male is trying to pick feathers from her and keeps chasing her off to the bottom of the cage. Then the female backs off and male goes back to the box. Another weird thing is that the male is sitting on the eggs and whenever she is trying to go in, he gets up and starts to be aggressive towards the female. Then the she gives up and male goes back to sitting on the eggs. The male doesn't even go out to eat or do anything else for that matter. The female keeps trying to get in without success.

It would seem that currently male is sitting on the eggs during day and the female is sitting during nights, does this make any sense?

We are really worried and don't really know what to do. Previous owner told us that these are not siblings and unfortunately we can't ask any further information since the previous owner has passed away. Feel free to ask further information and I will answer if I can.

Please help us! Thanks in advance.

Br

Jay

 

[JayBro]

I would also like to point out that these are a bonded and loving pair, usually the male regurgitates to the females mouth as a sign of love. Happens daily, or used to happen. I can't quite think of what this weird behavior is, is it normal or abnormal.

We have in fact peeked into the nest box secretly without the awareness of the greys, or so we think, they couldn't see but most certainly they could hear. But this can't be a nest abandonment since the male is sitting even as we speak.

Should we let the breeding process continue further or should we dislodge the breeding box entirely?

 

[henpecked]

I know a little about breeder CAGs , i stress the little part. As with many large parrots, you can put almost any two together and have them breed, The more successful pairs pick their own mate from a flock. If breeding is your goal then try other mates. If having a pair of "pet" CAGs is your goal then remove the nest box, chances are the chicks will not survive with out you pulling and feeding your self. The parents (especially the male) could kill the chicks. Another consideration is the use of handraised breeder birds,even ex-pets. They make poor parents and often have issues. Parent raised birds make better parents. I'm not a CAG breeder and only dabble with TAGs, who i find more difficult than the new world birds. Depends on your goals for that pair. Maybe just being cage mates is in the better interest of everyone included. I'd wait and see how things progress, maybe you won't have issues. But IMO you will.

 

[JayBro]

I know a little about breeder CAGs , i stress the little part. As with many large parrots, you can put almost any two together and have them breed, The more successful pairs pick their own mate from a flock. If breeding is your goal then try other mates. If having a pair of "pet" CAGs is your goal then remove the nest box, chances are the chicks will not survive with out you pulling and feeding your self. The parents (especially the male) could kill the chicks. Another consideration is the use of handraised breeder birds,even ex-pets. They make poor parents and often have issues. Parent raised birds make better parents. I'm not a CAG breeder and only dabble with TAGs, who i find more difficult than the new world birds. Depends on your goals for that pair. Maybe just being cage mates is in the better interest of everyone included. I'd wait and see how things progress, maybe you won't have issues. But IMO you will.

Thanks for your answer. These are parent raised as far as I know, the previous owner got them from a swedish outdoor aviary, farm or smth, not sure of the correct word but hopefully you get my point.

We are mainly wondering that is it odd that the male is sitting on the eggs during days and female during nights? We will continue to monitor their behavior, if it gets more aggressive towards the female, we will most likely remove the box. We didn't install the box just to make them breed, we wanted to see how it affects the male, he used to scream a lot without any proper reason. Right after we installed the box he stopped it, also we put the box just to lower the pressure from female since the male wanted to mate even without the box.

 

[henpecked]

The box might just be a distraction for the male. Because the two are sharing duties it might work out, but IMO the pair are not that compatible. Usually happy pairs don't scream for no reason. Do you think your hen or male are alot younger than the older? Once again ,I'm not the best person to be offering advice on CAGs. Personally i don't like them and can't relate to them, so i don't spend much time trying to figure them out.

 

[sodakat]

I don't have CAG experience either, but if this were my Eclectus I would remove the male from the cage and let the female incubate alone. Since she is feeding herself right now, what difference would it make?

How long have they been sitting tight? Are the eggs close to hatching? Have you candled the eggs? I guess knowing how likely you are to have viable chicks would help make your decision.

Once the babies hatch the hen *should* feed them, if the previous owner was truthful with you that they indeed raised a chick. The hen won't want to leave the nest very long to eat when there are new babies, but she will not starve herself. If you could rig something up so the male could feed her from an adjacent cage through the bars that would be better than her having no one to feed her. This is assuming she calls to him for food.

So many variables here.

 

[JayBro]

I don't have CAG experience either, but if this were my Eclectus I would remove the male from the cage and let the female incubate alone. Since she is feeding herself right now, what difference would it make?

How long have they been sitting tight? Are the eggs close to hatching? Have you candled the eggs? I guess knowing how likely you are to have viable chicks would help make your decision.

Once the babies hatch the hen *should* feed them, if the previous owner was truthful with you that they indeed raised a chick. The hen won't want to leave the nest very long to eat when there are new babies, but she will not starve herself. If you could rig something up so the male could feed her from an adjacent cage through the bars that would be better than her having no one to feed her. This is assuming she calls to him for food.

So many variables here.

The first egg was laid 8 days ago. Yes like during the first 6 days the male fed the hen just normally and didn't help that much with the sitting. And the male is forcing the hen to the bottom of the cage, does this say anything?

 

[sodakat]

Five eggs and he stopped her from sitting after the last one was laid. 3 eggs likely took what, 5 or 6 days to lay, so she wasn't sitting tight for very long before he forced her off, right? I mean, often they don't start incubating until a couple eggs have been laid.

I had another thought which is why I came back to this thread. What is the room where you have their cage? Can you leave him outside the cage without trouble? My young male who is tending a hen doesn't want to stay in his cage. He needs to fly! So he calls out after a while. I let him out in my bird room for much of the day. He is happy and he feeds the hen through the bars.

I have someone I can ask about the male's behavior, but personally I don't understand it at all.

 

[JayBro]

Five eggs and he stopped her from sitting after the last one was laid. 3 eggs likely took what, 5 or 6 days to lay, so she wasn't sitting tight for very long before he forced her off, right? I mean, often they don't start incubating until a couple eggs have been laid.

I had another thought which is why I came back to this thread. What is the room where you have their cage? Can you leave him outside the cage without trouble? My young male who is tending a hen doesn't want to stay in his cage. He needs to fly! So he calls out after a while. I let him out in my bird room for much of the day. He is happy and he feeds the hen through the bars.

I have someone I can ask about the male's behavior, but personally I don't understand it at all.

Thanks for your reply, would be great if you'd consult your contact about this behavior, I would sincerely appreciate it.

They have their own room, our other parrot BFA was moved into another room during the breeding. Cage is opened all the time when we are at home but neither of them has yet came out during the breeding.

 

[sodakat]

Yes, I will ask. Meanwhile, since he can be out in the room without problem, I would lock the male out of the cage and let him feed her through the bars for a while. That way you'll also know if she is going to sit on the eggs.

 

[JayBro]

Yes, I will ask. Meanwhile, since he can be out in the room without problem, I would lock the male out of the cage and let him feed her through the bars for a while. That way you'll also know if she is going to sit on the eggs.

We tried the separation of the male yesterday from main cage to a transport cage and we located the transport cage from 2 meters away from the main cage so that they were able to see each other. He was out of the equation for like 1 and a half hour then we let him back into the cage. Then all of sudden the hen went into the box and male was okay with it. But when the male was out, hen was afraid to go in to the box at all. We had to take the male by force (lights off and towel grab, as subtle as possible of course), since these are semi tame, scared of hands so they don't so step ups etc. We want to avoid any unnecessary stress.

Ohh and we have candled the eggs, we are for certain that the oldest egg is fertilized, we are not so certain of the second, and the third showed nothing since it was so fresh we think or just unfertilized.
I would like to ask something about incubation, how long an egg can actually survive when it has been sat tightly, so that we can tell whether the eggs have any survival rate at this point anymore, there's been at best about 1 and a half hour.

 

[sodakat]

I have an email address for you. Will PM it to you.

Eggs can sit a bit normally. You are SURE you know which bird is which?

 

[JayBro]

I have an email address for you. Will PM it to you.

Eggs can sit a bit normally. You are SURE you know which bird is which?

Yes we are, we know exactly which is which Female as a ring on the feet, male has chewed or somehow gotten rid of it, and we have seen the mating process and that pretty much proves it.

What you mean a bit normally, I wanted to know how many hours an egg can survive without sitting, how long the parent can leave the nest without incubation?

 

[henpecked]

Depends on Temp. I've had chicken eggs set for 2 wks before placing in a incubator. Parrot eggs kept at less than 70F and above 40F should be viable for at least a week . You don't want them warmed to 100F and then cooled because the embryo will start development at the warmer temp, and needs to stay warm there after.I'd give them at least 30 days after someone starts to set them. Should hatch in 28 days ,add an extra week ,just to be sure. So long as the eggs don't get too cold/hot before they are incubated, they should be good for at least a week or two. How long can a bird be off the eggs? That depends on things like age of development and Temp, humidity, etc. I'd say no more than a couple of hours, best case scenario.

 

[Echo]

Ok I only breed Conures but the piece of advise I would give you is to not meddle too much in their nesting behavior. I would not remove the male either unless you truly feared for the female's life. Sitting and raising babies are a lot of work and should not be on only one bird's shoulder. You also don't have babies lives to worry about yet so the male could be doing all the sitting now and expect the female to relay him later. When humans interfere, sometimes it does more harm than good. I would observe from afar, and intervene only if really needed.

PS: What seems "weird behavior" to us, might be normal for that pair/species.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[JayBro]

Depends on Temp. I've had chicken eggs set for 2 wks before placing in a incubator. Parrot eggs kept at less than 70F and above 40F should be viable for at least a week . You don't want them warmed to 100F and then cooled because the embryo will start development at the warmer temp, and needs to stay warm there after.I'd give them at least 30 days after someone starts to set them. Should hatch in 28 days ,add an extra week ,just to be sure. So long as the eggs don't get too cold/hot before they are incubated, they should be good for at least a week or two. How long can a bird be off the eggs? That depends on things like age of development and Temp, humidity, etc. I'd say no more than a couple of hours, best case scenario.

Thanks for telling more detailed information about the incubation of eggs and the temps and how long they can be without sitting. That helps a lot.

Ok I only breed Conures but the piece of advise I would give you is to not meddle too much in their nesting behavior. I would not remove the male either unless you truly feared for the female's life. Sitting and raising babies are a lot of work and should not be on only one bird's shoulder. You also don't have babies lives to worry about yet so the male could be doing all the sitting now and expect the female to relay him later. When humans interfere, sometimes it does more harm than good. I would observe from afar, and intervene only if really needed.

PS: What seems "weird behavior" to us, might be normal for that pair/species.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for this reply too, right now it would seem that the male is taking over the whole sitting duty, he sat yesterday whole day, whole night and he is continuing it right now as we speak (daytime here). Whenever the hen tries to go and check things out while the male is sitting, he gets angry and kicks the hen out. For a while he chases him by trying to poke her with his beak and quickly approaching. Same time the hen is making really loud screeching, so actually there is little beak poking happening it's just the female that's shouting so loud that it sounds really bad. Also sometimes the male comes out of the nest to the hole and checks things out, then he might start to chase the hen again without the hen actually meddling with his sitting (this sounds weird?).

 

[henpecked]

If it wasn't for the fact that you have fertile eggs, i'd say you could have two hens, mating behavior and all.

 

[JayBro]

If it wasn't for the fact that you have fertile eggs, i'd say you could have two hens, mating behavior and all.

Indeed, can parrots get some kind of identity crisis? That would be really odd to say the least.

Actually, is it possible for 2 females to make mating look like real? Because whenever we saw them mating it looked like real. Female's cloaca was spread and male's cloaca gland came out, might not be proper terms but oh well.

 

[henpecked]

Oh yes ,two hens could fool anyone.

 

[JayBro]

Oh yes ,two hens could fool anyone.

Seriously? I think we need to candle the eggs again, might be that they are not fertilized after all due to our lack of experience so that we might be unable to distinguish it properly.

Also the presumed female is much slender compared to the presumed male, female also is lighter grey when the male is darker grey. I would be really really confused and surprised if these were 2 hens. Please let's try to eliminate this option? Any suggestions?