Loved so much I'm bit all over :confused:

[MaryBirdMom]

Hi all! I'm Mary. New here, just joined because I'm looking for some advice. It's a long story so bear with me:
I've had my bird Moe for 3 years (co-owned with my mother who lives with me) since we rescued him. Moe and I are absolute BFF's and we used to spend almost all of my free time together. In the past year my sister had a baby and my job changed, so my mother and I are not at home as much as we used to be and as a result Moe is at home in his cage by himself more. Around a year ago (maybe less) Moe started biting me, hard, regularly. At the time we figured it was hormonal and after molting season was over he would stop. More time passed and it didn't stop. Then it started to make me jumpy so I would flinch my finger away when asking him to step up. I know from past experience with him that this makes him bite more so when I offer my finger I tried to be very purposeful and not move away when he bends his head down to step on. The problem is, when he bites he usually latches on even if I am statue still. The last time I tried to get him to step up he bit so long/hard he bit layers and layers of skin off.
I have had him bite me in all sorts of situations so I can't quite figure out his motivation. (Note: these are all blood drawing bites, not "nips", though I get those too.) He has bitten me a few times after bobbing up and down asking to be picked up. While snuggling under my neck - no loud noises, no movements on my part nothing to provoke. Snuggling one minute- chomp the next. He has bitten my arm while I was trying to warm my hands under a blanket and he was sitting on my knee. Just walked up to my arm and - bite! He will bite my neck/shoulders when he is on my shoulder and I am in the kitchen. I've had to stop taking him in the kitchen and clipped his wings so he can't fly in after me then proceed to bite my neck. I've stopped picking him up with my fingers and am only offering my arm to him when he wants to visit.
He still loves to sit with me, and let me preen him or just sit on me while I rock in my chair, but the minute he starts to look aggressive or get nippy or bite me my mom has to grab him and put him back on/in his cage. He does not bite my mom, but I think this has something to do with me being his "favorite". He only lets me preen him and usually chooses to be with me if given a choice. I've tried not picking him up when he is on/in his cage. I've tried clipping wings and re-arranging perches and toys and moving his cage to make him less comfortable. I've tried buying more toys, having him forage more, and building a play gym to keep him from being bored. We hardly interact anymore and it's so sad because I know this baby, I've lived with him for 3 years and I know he doesn't want to bite me and he loves me but I'm covered with scars and healing bite wounds and I'm just so scared of him any more even though I love this little featherball to death.

Most recently I'm working on target training with him in order to have us have some time together where we are both focusing on something other than each other. I read the suggestion on this forum I believe. This has been going well but I haven't seen a decrease in biting yet.

I feel like we need a bird therapist so we can work it out. That's why I'm here. Be my birdy therapist? Any suggestions are welcome!

P.S. Added level of difficulty: On top of this a couple of weeks ago we got a 2 month old GCC named Holly so Moe can have at least some company when we are away. We are still in quarantine period and only one is out of the cage at a time at the moment, but Moe has shown aggression towards her and she only shows curiosity and interest in him. She is flighted and he is not at the moment so I'm worried she'll just fly to him and he'll tell her to go away and she won't and they'll fight. This is what happens when she flies to his cage and climbs around on the outside. She doesn't know better to leave when he nips her toes. She just stays there and takes it until we shoo her away to her cage/the play gym.

Thanks for reading my novel of a post! Feel free to ask questions and leave tips! Anyone experienced this bird love/hate relationship? What helped you?

 

[Anansi]

Hello MaryBirdMom, and welcome to the Parrot Forum Family!

Hmmm... Quite possible that Moe's change in behavior is due to the reduction in how much time he spends with you. But how old is he? I ask because there's also a chance it's a puberty thing.

Anyhow, first thing I'd say is to take away shoulder privileges for now. If he can't be trusted to hang out near so vulnerable a region as your face right now, don't put him in a position where he could cause that kind of damage.

Now, let me ask, does Moe tend to bite more in the vicinity of his cage? Or when someone either enters or leaves the room you're in with him? Or when a person approaches the two of you? The answer to this might give more specific reasoning behind the bites. One of the things you want to keep in mind is that you shouldn't anthropomorphize your bird, which is to say you shouldn't attribute human motivations or characteristics to his behavior. Particularly, he may not be biting you out of anger. Often, biting is the last resort in a bird's attempt to communicate. They just don't always get that we're nowhere near as good at reading body language as they are. (This isn't to say that his behavior isn't indeed a result of his annoyance over the changes. Just reminding you to keep your mind open to other possibilities as well.)

All that said, here is a really good thread I think you might want to check out: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html It focuses on avoiding being bitten in the first place.

Now, to a large degree it sounds like a reset is needed in your relationship with Moe. To that end, try taking it back to basics. Instead of jumping straight back into the kind of close knit hanging out and such you both used to do, work on rebuilding that trust... on both sides. (As you've keenly deduced, sometimes your flinching when he's attempting to step up triggers the bite. Again, this is because of their sensitivity to body language. The kind of heightened state that tends to precede a flinch is confusing to a bird. If he's meeting you with no 'ill-intent', such is clear in his body language. So seeing you on edge - which in the wild would indicate either fight or flight - would tend to put him in a state of alert as well. The flinch comes across as a betrayal of sorts, since he was approaching 'in good faith'. Your flinch is understandable, of course. But only to a human. Not a bird. We're just as mysterious to them as they oft-times are to us.)

So, to rebuild that trust, my primary go to is bribery. Big, fat bribes in the form of his favorite treats. Whatever this favored treat is, make sure that the only time he can get them is during training sessions with you. They shouldn't be a part of his regular meals.

These treats should be his reward for doing something you've asked. Like the target-training you've already started. The thing is, you can't rush to getting things back where they were. Let things progress more slowly. For now, just focus on the interactive training and games. As you reestablish your bond, you can begin taking things further. And remember to limit the training depending on your bird's attention span. My birds tend to be good with maybe 20 - 25 minutes of training. Some might be closer to 15. Or even 5. The important thing is to find your bird's zone and work within it. Always leave them wanting more rather than having had enough. Remember, for birds, association is key. He should associate you with fun times and yummy treats. Avoid associations with stuff that makes him uncomfortable... like pushing his boundaries.

As for handling the biting itself, via bite-pressure training, here are another 2 links you might find helpful: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/63988-bite-pressure-training.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/questions-answers/58911-bird-bites-always-2.html

And lastly, another piece of bird self-defense while you work out the kinks in your relationship. Begin to carry around either a small, bird-safe piece of wood or hard plastic. (Small enough to carry comfortably in your pocket or even the palm of your hand, and hard enough to withstand a good gnawing.) And then learn the warning signs for when he's about to attack. When he does, interpose the bird-safe item between your flesh and his beak. This will serve the dual purpose of shielding your hand/arm, and also diverting his attention from you as the object of his seeming ire. Most birds will be distracted enough by this that they will momentarily forget their desire to eat you.

Once you become more adept at reading his moods, you'll be able to prevent many bites simply by not putting yourself in the position to be bitten in the first place.

 

[T00tsyd]

Is there any possibility that your relationship has crossed over from child/parent to bird/mate? Not in your eyes of course but possibly in his. Could this be a case of unrequited love directed at you? I don't know of course but with Syd I have to be very careful that his 'love' and cuddly behaviour is not reciprocated unduly. The advice above is brilliant, I guess it's back to the beginning time and take your time over it. I used to dress in gloves, hat, scarves etc when Syd was in attack mode. Fortunately he has grown out of it (she thinks with fingers crossed). Best of luck you are in the right place and welcome

 

[Aspie_Aviphile]

One possibility is that you accidentally taught him that nipping is the way to get your undivided attention or to start stroking or talking to him again when he's on you. If gentle nips were rewarded with you remembering to engage with him, then sometimes you ignored or quickly forgot him again, the nips would get harder to guarantee a response.

 

[MaryBirdMom]

Hello MaryBirdMom, and welcome to the Parrot Forum Family!

Hmmm... Quite possible that Moe's change in behavior is due to the reduction in how much time he spends with you. But how old is he? I ask because there's also a chance it's a puberty thing.

Anyhow, first thing I'd say is to take away shoulder privileges for now. If he can't be trusted to hang out near so vulnerable a region as your face right now, don't put him in a position where he could cause that kind of damage.

Now, let me ask, does Moe tend to bite more in the vicinity of his cage? Or when someone either enters or leaves the room you're in with him? Or when a person approaches the two of you?

Thank you Anansi! I really appreciate your thorough response and have been considering a lot of your suggestions (starting the relationship from scratch, no shoulder time, and carrying a perch “barrier”).

Here are the answers to your questions:
Moe’s exact age is unknown. We estimate 5-6 years though.
Moe’s bites me most often when I am alone with him, though sometimes when my mom is home too. He doesn’t seem to bite more or less on/in or away from his cage. His bites are usually at times of peace and quiet. We are sitting watching tv in the living room, I am fixing a meal in the kitchen, etc. He’s never bitten me when someone approaches/leaves.

I really think this is somehow due to lack of attention/boredom. It started at a time when I could only let him out for an hour or so then put him back in his cage to wait for mom to get home and Let him back out. Our schedule isn’t that bad now.

I do think Moe might have chosen me as his “mate” although I only pet/preen his head and don’t let him rub up against me.

I like the idea of bite pressure training, and I’d really love a step by step tutorial or video if anyone has more resources in that vein. I’m afraid I would mess it up.Do you give treats when they nip but don’t bite or just do the beak grab for bad bites? What if the bird is latched on and won’t let go even with beak pressure? Where should this training be done? On his cage? On a perch? Do you try to get them to bite you? Like I said a tutorial would be nice.

In the meantime I’ll more thoroughly read the threads you linked and keep working on the target training with lots and lots of millet.

Thank you again for your response!

 

[MaryBirdMom]

T00tsyd- I think you might be right, “unrequited love” seems to explain his fixation on biting me even when I am giving him attention.

Aspie_Aviphile- Good suggestion, but I ignore Moe when he nips me in order to prevent attention biting.

 

[Laurasea]

I just linked this article for another member. I'm going to link it for you to, as it has a long section on biting, and different causes for biting. So scroll through it.
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/bird-behavior/

 

[Anansi]

Thank you Anansi! I really appreciate your thorough response and have been considering a lot of your suggestions (starting the relationship from scratch, no shoulder time, and carrying a perch “barrier”).

Here are the answers to your questions:
Moe’s exact age is unknown. We estimate 5-6 years though.
Moe’s bites me most often when I am alone with him, though sometimes when my mom is home too. He doesn’t seem to bite more or less on/in or away from his cage. His bites are usually at times of peace and quiet. We are sitting watching tv in the living room, I am fixing a meal in the kitchen, etc. He’s never bitten me when someone approaches/leaves.

I really think this is somehow due to lack of attention/boredom. It started at a time when I could only let him out for an hour or so then put him back in his cage to wait for mom to get home and Let him back out. Our schedule isn’t that bad now.

I do think Moe might have chosen me as his “mate” although I only pet/preen his head and don’t let him rub up against me.

I like the idea of bite pressure training, and I’d really love a step by step tutorial or video if anyone has more resources in that vein. I’m afraid I would mess it up.Do you give treats when they nip but don’t bite or just do the beak grab for bad bites? What if the bird is latched on and won’t let go even with beak pressure? Where should this training be done? On his cage? On a perch? Do you try to get them to bite you? Like I said a tutorial would be nice.

In the meantime I’ll more thoroughly read the threads you linked and keep working on the target training with lots and lots of millet.

Thank you again for your response!

You're welcome!

Okay, so given his estimated age, the onset of puberty isn't the issue. Though hormones could still be a contributing factor. And given your description of when and where he tends to bite, it doesn't sound like a territorial response, either.

As for a tutorial, let me know what you think after reading through those links. You might find that what I posted there covers some of your step-by-step concerns.

No treats, nor verbal encouragement, when they nip. Now, some differ on this. There are people who teach their bird it's okay to express themselves via a nip as a preferable alternative to biting. But for me, bite pressure training is all about letting your bird know exactly how much pressure is acceptable. So I train them never to apply more pressure than is comfortable for me. And now they never do. 100% compliance. (With me, anyway. Maya will still bite others.)

Jolly is a good example. He's actually never bitten anyone in his life. (He turns 7 this year.) Yet I still did bite pressure training with him. Why? Because sometimes the pressure he put on would be slightly uncomfortable. Or he would nibble on my ear. He did so gently enough, but I'm not a fan of ear nibbling. (Well, by non-humans, anyway. ) So I defined my boundaries, and once he learned them, he respected them. In return, however, I respect his boundaries as well. For instance, when I'm petting him, sometimes he'll indicate that he's had enough. Our agreed upon communication for that is him reaching back, gently grasping my finger, and pushing it away. Once he does this, I don't push the issue by trying to pet him some more just then. He already said no, and pushing the issue could have him thinking of ways to make his point more... emphatically.

No, I never try to get them to bite me. This would only confuse your bird, and likely break any trust they have in you. Just work on getting better at reading his body language and anticipating when a bite might come. All the better to avoid it.