I ask for help in the treatment of African parrot

[Lidia]

Hello ! I have a question, there is information on the dosage of tylosin 50 when using it through a nebulizer and how much time it takes to keep a parrot in a box out of clear plastic Thank you .

 

[Scott]

Hi Lidia, hope Jaquo is doing well.

I have never nebulized a parrot, can only suggest working closely with an avian vet skilled with such procedures. If this is not possible, here are some references. Cannot verify whether they are safe and effective treatments.

https://www.jorvet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MANJ1057-Drugs-Used-for-Inhalation-Therapy.pdf

Discussion of nebulization, not specific to Tylosin: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451201/

Tylosin is discussed twice, need to scroll down a bit: http://avianmedicine.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/18.pdf

 

[EllenD]

Hi Lidia, I just saw your post...

So as far as the time to keep your bird inside of the box, breathing the Tylosin, I did 15 minutes once a day with my Quaker, worked great...

So you are using the Tylan 50, correct? What are you using to dilute it in? That's going to effect the dilution of the Tylan 50...I used sterile saline, or you can use sterile water or even distilled water is fine...Let me know an I can find the dilution ratio for you...

 

[Lidia]

Hello, friends! Thanks for answers! Our doctor offers Tylosin 50 2 ml + 10 ml saline, keep it in the box for about 1 hour, but she doubts (there was no practice) and so I decided to ask you about it.

 

[ChristaNL]

Sorry to interrupt - I can phone my vets tomorrow for you and get the dosage/ time it should be in the nebulizer for a grey. (They have 2 hours each day where you can just call them and ask questions -> no charge / exept the phonebill of course)

Do you know how much she weighs?
(This is NL here, so you kan use conventional weights like kg and grams)

EllenD has tons of experience, so they will probably tell me the same thing she already said.

 

[Lidia]

Hello! Now I saw the message because of the difference in time. Today I called other doctors in Moscow, but no one has practice unfortunately, they say that if there is an opportunity people fly to Europe or the US to treat and diagnose their birds. My dear:серый: parrot is weighing 430 grams. Probably we will try for 15 minutes, in those dosages that the doctor wrote to us.

 

[Scott]

Lidia, I wonder if there are any local zoos that might be willing to help? An accurate diagnosis is so important, and that generally requires lab tests of blood and/or excrement droppings. It may be possible to locate a European, U.S, or Canadian vet to Skype, but that does not help with the biochemistry of what may be affecting your Grey.

 

[ChristaNL]

Is okay - I will try again for you tomorrow.
(but I think you are doing great already - Ellen gives good advice)



I am 1 hour behind you (your 18:00 h. is 17:00 h here)
so no problem.
( NL = (GMT+2), Krasnodar = (GMT+3) )



If you want to call yourself (might be expensive, the phonebill I mean, advice is free):
call between 13:30 - 14:30 (amsterdamtime! GMT+2)
The number is 0031 30 2531799

You usually get a Vet-student who will start looking for answers first and then ask the experts (CAV), they can and will also email you! (Just ask them to do so)

 

[Lidia]

Scott You are right, I also really want to know the exact diagnosis, so I myself look for information in books and on the Internet, for example, I write to you. We again passed all tests these agonizing 10:00 held in a veterinary clinic, did an x-ray with barium, two weeks have passed and it is useless, again a standstill, as the biochemistry (extended) shows that everything is normal except for calcium and x-ray with barium done under gas anesthesia 6 times, since my parrot has stored barium in the goiter. Zoos we have, but they invite to the treatment of our veterinarian. Our doctor says that we are the only ones who are difficult and can not determine the diagnosis:смущенный:: 17:

 

[ChristaNL]

Haven't forgotten .... 14:00 h. (I just got of the phone with one of the students - they are going to look into this, and see if you dosage/ time is correct. They will call me again this afternoon or tomorrow.)


How is Jaquo doing today?
(Have you noticed anything different yet? Or is he still the same?)

 

[wrench13]

6 barium x-rays? This is one tough bird. Good luck to you and Jaquo!

 

[Lidia]

Hello! no, I did not forget, I called 0031 30 2531799, picked up the phone, but it turned out that my English was bad, I asked a question, but could not understand what they told me. My feathery sneezes, not often, but the feces are bad, the doctor said that this is a secondary infection, an inflammation in the abdominal cavity.

 

[EllenD]

Hi Lidia, i'm so sorry, I had to work yesterday afternoon/night and I just now logged back in...

I just saw your vet's dilution with sterile saline...If you're using powdered Tylan 50, which I assume you are, you need to dilute it 1mg Tylan 50/1 ml of sterile saline, it's a direct 1:1 dilution ratio...so that one is easy...

You want 20mg of Tylan 50 powder or 20ml of Tylan 50 liquid/per kg of body weight diluted in equal parts sterile saline...

An hour is usually what is recommended in text books, however, keeping your bird inside a nebulizer box for an hour is not easy, nor recommended for an already sick, stressed bird...So I do 15 minutes at a time, and see how they do..My Quaker did wonderfully on 15 minutes, and cleared up almost immediately, however he was not suffering from the same degree of infection as your Grey is...So, do it in increments, let him have a break, etc.

 

[EllenD]

By the way, since I don't know what formulation of Tylan 50 you have, just so you know, if you have liquid Tylan 50 that is labeled as being "injectable", that is the same formulation as the oral Tylan 50 is, they are exactly the same thing. So it's fine to use in the Nebulizer as well....

 

[Lidia]

yes he Injection

 

[Lidia]

Thank you very much for the information, I'm very pleased that you do not pass by our history, how to conduct the first procedure, I'll try to upload a video.

 

[ChristaNL]

I asked the student(s) to take a look at this topic as well- for reference (names, dates, medicine etc.)

I haven't heard from them yet, will call again tomorrow.

 

[EllenD]

Keep us posted on how he's doing, and yes, if you can post a video of his first treatment that would be great...As I said, some birds do much better than others in a nebulization box, some don't care, others start to stress after a few minutes, etc. And with a sick bird, stress is the worst thing that they can have to endure, so it's just a matter of you knowing your bird and ending the individual treatments if you think he's really stressing.

It's better to do a few shorter treatments each day than one long treatment a day if your bird can't handle a long time in the box...

 

[ChristaNL]

Okay.. a lot of students and the resident experts (CAV) @ the University have thought and talked about this.

They cannot give you a diagnosis, because they have not seen Jaquo in person.

(though they wanted to if they could, they all wish Jaquo the very best and are touched you care so much about your parrot! )


Here we go:

tylan = (another) antibiotics
they will not give advice about the use and dosage because they have not seen the bird...but......

if your bird is having reporatory problems- (and previous antibiotics did not help) it could (probably) be because of a fungus infection and not bacteria.
(apergillus / aspergillosis is a realy hard to fight, sometimes it returns)

Antibiotics like tylan will *not* help against fungus.
You need an anti-fungal medicine like turbilicine form your vet.



recap:
Turbiciline fights fungus (and aspergillosis)
Tylan/Tylosin fights bacteria


Antibiotics (Tylan) will upset the intestines (smelly poop etc.) so use a probiotica for parrots to help the the intestines.
(if you really, really cannot find any for parrots -> let me know!)

example: It is this stuf: probiotica voor vogels - Hareco - dier en vriend - Papegaaien en Dierenspeciaalzaak
(a lot of online shops have it, and will send it to you)


We could not read the bottle (I guess it says Tylosin?), sorry (cyrillic is hard if you are not used to it / you are very clever you can do both!).


They are very sorry to hear your vets are in disagreement with each other and you and your bird are not helped very well.
Don't give up!!



===


so thats it from the university - for now-
if you have more questions, they will be happy to try and help you.

 

[EllenD]

Christa...This OP has been trying to get an accurate diagnosis for almost a year now...Her Grey was first wrongly diagnosed with Aspergilliosis, and was treated for it, along with many, many other illnesses for months and months, with no relief in the Upper Respiratory Infection symptoms in her bird...So I finally suggested that she needed to Nebulize him instead of giving oral meds, and told her to absolutely Nebulize him with Tylosin, as it is the most effective broad-spectrum antibiotic against URI's in birds, reptiles, etc. by Nebulizer...So now she's trying the nebulizer with the Tylosin.

This OP is in Russia and has limited resources, and is now unfortunately down to ordering her own medications...She's gotten more helpful and accurate information from out members here than the vets she has taken her bird to...