How bad are macaw bites really?

[horsesculpter]

Our rescue macaw bit both of us hard a number of times in the past but really doesn't want to anymore. They can inflict a very painful bite to the point af knots and damaged nerves that take some time to heal and they can certainly draw blood if they grab the right place. However I don't believe the broomstick or severed finger stuff. I have been bitten with everything she could muster, but it would not have broken my finger. She destroys her wooden toys but can't bite a very thick block through. She is a fairly big girl at 1140 grams so has plenty of bite power.

 

[Birdman666]

However I don't believe the broomstick or severed finger stuff.

It's not a myth. They can, and I have seen it happen! Those blocks of hardwood they snap are harder and denser than bone.

Lawsuit Dad sues when hotel bird amputates his son's finger:

http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/Dad-Sues-Over-Trauma-of-Seeing-Parrot-Attack-Toddler.html

Doctor who specializes in finger wound treatments, and has done surgical reattachments from Macaw bites. Includes pictures of a person who almost lost a thumb to a B&G (bitten through, but not quite off!)

http://www.thehandtreatmentcenter.com/infections/

They usually won't unless provoked to the extreme... and even then it's usually no more than a puncture wound and/or bruise requiring a band aid. Hurts, but not serious. Most bites requiring stitches are due to the bird not realizing its own strength, and applying too much pressure. And to me, macaws are the easiest of the bunch to bite pressure train. I very nearly lost the tip of my right index finger to a friendly macaw who didn't realize his own strength. He was just holding on for dear life, not wanting me to walk away. My left thumb was also sliced open to the bone - by a MINI-MAC! And that was just a quick "GOTCHA SUCKER!" bite. He didn't really get a chance to clamp down all the way, it was a slice and retreat bite...

Aside from the aforementioned military macaw "getting the ring" off the finger (easy! first remove the finger. The ring slides right off!), a friend of mine had a scarlet macaw that inflicted a severe degloving injury to three toes, and years ago I did a rescue on a macaw "beak through the cheek" which required surgical repair... Maggie is SIGNIFICANTLY larger and more powerful than either of those birds. (She also wouldn't hurt a fly... it is simply not in her nature.)

The worst bite injury I'm aware of, however, was from a displacement bite by a CAG. (Beak through the cheek, with the bird then knocked off the owner's shoulder, with the beak still caught in the cheek. Yikes!) That lady required facial reconstructive surgery. (I rehabed that bird! He was tame and sweet. He was a displacement biter who just got spooked out of his mind...)

 

[Anansi]

...However I don't believe the broomstick or severed finger stuff. I have been bitten with everything she could muster, but it would not have broken my finger.

I don't know about severed fingers, but I do know they are fully capable of breaking finger bones when sufficiently motivated. Yours may not have done so, but what ever makes you so certain that he/she truly wanted to?

In that respect, birds are not terribly different from human beings. Most of us have a built in inhibition against hitting with all that we have. When learning to strike in martial arts, part of the training is learning to push past that inhibition so as to attack with all that you have, rather than what you'd previously believed to be your limits.

In that same sense, most parrots won't actually inflict the level of damage of which they are capable, even if they are truly determined to do you harm. It's just against their natures.

But it does happen.

Oh! Check out this hyacinth! He's not biting in anger, here, which makes it that much scarier.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ozZFsGAEJs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ozZFsGAEJs[/ame]

Just sayin'...

 

[Birdman666]

Hyacinths and their puzzle toys...

Yeah, that's just a mild way of amusing himself... He looks like he's having fun with it.

I am convinced that a Hy could bite through an arm if he were really, really inclined to do so. Wouldn't take the arm off, but it would probably snap it like a twig.

I honestly think Maggie is powerful enough to do that as well. I've seen her snap blocks of wood in two that were thicker than my arm. If she could do that to a block of wood, she could do it to an arm. I think the wood is harder...

I actually had the point of a Hy beak go completely through the palm of my hand stepping up, between the finger bones - no damage, just a pin hole on both sides. The bird and I were old friends and I stepped him up.

Turns out he was in for grooming. Seems he had a sharp pointy beak... Once again, my fault. Didn't ask, just picked him up... (I've never met a Hy I could resist playing with, or at least, attempting to play with.)

He was as gentle as they come, and just did his normal step up routine, but the point was needle sharp, and he latched on to a weak spot in my flesh. The beak went right through my hand. No ill intent at all... just really happy to see you!

 

[Dinosrawr]

Large macaw bite strength in Netwon's is about 2300. It takes, with a healthy approximate, only 12 pounds of pressure (so let's say up to 100 N) to break the average human finger. They can most definitely snap it if they so desired, and by the looks of it by numbers a whooooole lot more. But as prey animals, it's not a natural disposition unless they feel cornered.

 

[Birdman666]

Having said all that:

I worked with "THE BITERS" for around 6-7 years, and in all that time working with all those birds, a significant number of whom were macaws that started out with "less than pleasant" dispositions, I had exactly TWO bites of any kind, from any bird, that required medical care... and those were just a few stitches. (I'd estimate the number at somewhere around 250-350-ish birds...) and both were MY fault.

Which I think speaks volumes for how gentle they generally are... (And I am the type of person who tends to push my luck.)

Macaws are lap birds at heart. They are the happy go lucky, want to play, be goofy and have fun types...

They are confident birds. Unlike some of the smaller species, they generally don't have to go around proving they can be a bad a$$ bird, "Don't mess with me..." (Those would be Sennies!) To the contrary, since they know are able to defend themselves if they need to, they are more willing to let their guard down and just have fun...

Which is probably why Mac owners love them so much!

"Aggressive macaws" usually just need more socialization and handling.

IF you understand how to handle them, AND DON'T SHOW FEAR! ACTING FEARFUL AROUND A BIG MAC OFTEN TRIGGERS A REACTION IN THEM! You have to be calm and confident to handle these birds. It takes a firm hand, and you have to be willing and able to call their bluff...

 

[strudel]

I suppose it's similar to dogs. There is potential in any dog to do some serious damage, but that potential is usually kept in check. The same things apply - don't approach or try to touch an animal you don't know, don't make sudden moves, etc. One difference is that birds will nip you here and there, unlike most dogs where ANY biting is totally unacceptable.

The other "big message" is don't just grab a bird (particularly a big one) and bring it home without doing your homework and learning what you need to do to reduce the potential for harm to its absolute minimum.

 

[Hawk]

However I don't believe the broomstick or severed finger stuff.

It's not a myth. They can, and I have seen it happen! Those blocks of hardwood they snap are harder and denser than bone.

Lawsuit Dad sues when hotel bird amputates his son's finger:

Dad Sues Over Trauma of Seeing Parrot Attack Toddler | Animals

Doctor who specializes in finger wound treatments, and has done surgical reattachments from Macaw bites. Includes pictures of a person who almost lost a thumb to a B&G (bitten through, but not quite off!)

Infections and bite wounds | The Hand Treatment Center - New Jersey/New York Hand Surgeon

They usually won't unless provoked to the extreme... and even then it's usually no more than a puncture wound and/or bruise requiring a band aid. Hurts, but not serious. Most bites requiring stitches are due to the bird not realizing its own strength, and applying too much pressure. And to me, macaws are the easiest of the bunch to bite pressure train. I very nearly lost the tip of my right index finger to a friendly macaw who didn't realize his own strength. He was just holding on for dear life, not wanting me to walk away. My left thumb was also sliced open to the bone - by a MINI-MAC! And that was just a quick "GOTCHA SUCKER!" bite. He didn't really get a chance to clamp down all the way, it was a slice and retreat bite...

Aside from the aforementioned military macaw "getting the ring" off the finger (easy! first remove the finger. The ring slides right off!), a friend of mine had a scarlet macaw that inflicted a severe degloving injury to three toes, and years ago I did a rescue on a macaw "beak through the cheek" which required surgical repair... Maggie is SIGNIFICANTLY larger and more powerful than either of those birds. (She also wouldn't hurt a fly... it is simply not in her nature.)

The worst bite injury I'm aware of, however, was from a displacement bite by a CAG. (Beak through the cheek, with the bird then knocked off the owner's shoulder, with the beak still caught in the cheek. Yikes!) That lady required facial reconstructive surgery. (I rehabed that bird! He was tame and sweet. He was a displacement biter who just got spooked out of his mind...)

Back in the late 80's I worked Trauma and medical ICU and have seen a child (4 to 5) lose 2 fingers from a Mawcaw bite. Having said that, they are all capable of biting. It all boils down to relationship and understanding the bird. They know the difference, it's all in their training that you put in it. Generally a mawcaw is a big cuddle bunny.

 

[Birdman666]

Exactly.

A pit bull can and if trained to attack, will, kill you...

If properly socialized he will also come bounding up to you and lick your face...

The difference, is usually HUMAN!

They CAN. Do not doubt it. This is why bite pressure training is so important. SO THEY DON'T!!!

Do that, they voice their displeasure with a hard pinch and walk away... and it doesn't even break the skin.

There is no reason for anyone to be maimed by a bird. It doesn't have to happen... and I consider it my responsibility to see that it doesn't (and so does the law.)

To me, if you aren't going to socialize them properly, then don't get one!

It isn't funny to see a big mac chasing your buddies around the house. It's potentially tragic...

 

[veruka1973]

It's A GIRL! got the DNA back today I was really surprised! I just had this "feeling" that she was a he.....now to come up with some girl names all I had picked out really were boy names.

 

[Dinosrawr]

Congratulations!!!

 

[thekarens]

It's A GIRL! got the DNA back today I was really surprised! I just had this "feeling" that she was a he.....now to come up with some girl names all I had picked out really were boy names.

I could be biased, but girls are The Best!! [emoji5]

 

[veruka1973]

I have decided to name her Willow, I was torn between Willow and Zelda....(yes I am a video game nerd lol) But I just like Willow better, it sounds so peaceful and calm.

 

[4dugnlee]

Congrats...Willow is a beautiful name for a B&G!

 

[strudel]

Now she can marry Fargo!!

 

[Hawk]

I can relate to that, really. I had a Major Mitchell cockatoo. When I gotten her in the 80's she was already in her 40's for age....One day she copped an attitude, I didn't see it coming either. She Grabbed hold of the left side of my face an literally bit right thru.
To make a long story short, I could stick my tongue easily through my mouth on that left side. She bit that big a gash and would not release. Looked like I had a soft ball in my mouth it was that swollen after wards. I didn't get rid of her, though very tempted at first, she realized what she did, and for 22 years after, till her death of 68 years, she never again bit me.

Ended up with 8 stiches, and have a permanent dimple now.....Had a hawk take a good chunk out of my arm, had a 2 inch by 2 inch skin graph to heal it. Took a bit before I let Trixie back on my shoulders after that cheek grab. Couple years perhaps.
I never let my guard down now. My current birds know I WILL give the eye pinning right back at them if they bite and a good telling off as well. They won't bite now. They know Daddy means it when he says NO biting.

 

[Hawk]

Exactly.

A pit bull can and if trained to attack, will, kill you...

If properly socialized he will also come bounding up to you and lick your face...

The difference, is usually HUMAN!

They CAN. Do not doubt it. This is why bite pressure training is so important. SO THEY DON'T!!!

Do that, they voice their displeasure with a hard pinch and walk away... and it doesn't even break the skin.

There is no reason for anyone to be maimed by a bird. It doesn't have to happen... and I consider it my responsibility to see that it doesn't (and so does the law.)

To me, if you aren't going to socialize them properly, then don't get one!

It isn't funny to see a big mac chasing your buddies around the house. It's potentially tragic...

I 100% agree with you there bud, the bite pressure training. Birds can control their pressure. I think what newbees to the parrot world do not understand is that parrots sometimes do not understand that they are applying a bit too much pressure. They can be easily taught gentle beak.
Young parrots haven't full control and get carried away. My African Grey likes to play something fierce with me, and though he's barely 2 yrs old, he dose get carried away and bites a bit too hard when playing. My Senni used to always draw blood, but she has in past couple months learned that too hard hurts the hand that feeds, so she has been much gentler now and it's been a while since she bit me hard. My Zons never bite hard, poppie knows the difference and is always very gentle.
I tend to think with age they do know not to bite hard, but that's not always the case I know.

 

[Alwese]

I have one macaw that will bite nobody (B&G - Kayko) and one that will bite everybody (Scarlet - Clifford) It's not the upper beak you have to worry about; it's the lower one, which cuts in a horseshoe pattern. A German Shepard dog can bite down to the tune of 150psi, a macaw can bite down at 450psi. They can't snap off a broom handle, but when Clifford was younger he could put 1/8 inch dents in one. When I'm out with my birds in public I usually take several nuts with me to show how quickly they can get into even the toughest nut, like a Brazil. When Clifford was in the terrible twos I would always come home from an outing with my ears bleeding. Now that he is 12 he has mellowed a bit and I seldom get to bleed (thankfully) The Scarlets I have seen all want to be rather pinchy, but knowing their provider they don't pinch all that hard. Strangers however would get the full treatment.

P.S. I LOVE the Hy video on page 5!!! A cage that is "macaw proof" in not necessarily one that is "Hyacinth proof" My Catalina; Doogie boy, was murder on his cage when he was young. He learned he could grasp a bar and twist back and forth until he broke the welds and the previous owner had is cage welded many times. I fixed his wagon by replacing the broken bars with threaded rods with locknuts on each end. He could turn the bar around, but it didn't do anything. He spun those bars for weeks and finally gave up trying.

 

[Sicilysangel]

Lets see, I have.... 6 scars. lol. All because Roscoe hates my boyfriend. The one on my finger is an actual chunk missing. But dont let that scare you. lol!

 

[gracebowen]

I got braked by a Macaw yesterday. It wasn't that bad but I was scared he would bite. Their beaks are huge.