Have to Rant/Vent...I'm so Angry!!!

[Terry57]

I am also so furious at him, this is the very last thing you needed after all you have been going through with Zilla's health because of this moron.
I am so thrilled that you have that paper in her handwriting. I also think he will just let this go, it just upsets me that he did this to you at all. You deserved a huge thank you, not this.

 

[Amanda_Bennett]

Isn't an abuse feeding crap to them and making them sick?

In my opinion? YES! Especially while watching and knowing what Zilla is going through because of the crap diet he fed her!

But a friend of mine is married to a Sheriff Deputy for the county I live in and I have talked to them and explained in detail what is going on and he says as long as they are feeding them "food" and not hitting or physically hurting them there is nothing the authorities can do since it wouldn't be considered abuse.

It sucks, but all I can do is keep Zilla safe and thank God she found her way into my care and is out of their care.

 

[Allee]

Wow Amanda! What an unbelievable moron that guy is! I'm amazed you had the self discipline to handle it so gracefully after all you and Zilla have been through. I am seething just reading this. The good thing is, there is no way he can possibly get anywhere with his ridiculous scheme to make a buck. If he had a shred of decency he would be on his knees asking you and Zilla for forgiveness.

 

[mh434]

Possession being 9/10 of the law, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The idiot just sees $$$ signs in front of his face, and figured this was an easy way to get it.

Considering that a lawyer is going to cost him a LOT more than he could hope to get for Zilla, I suspect that when the lawyer (assuming he actually TALKS to one!) starts talking fees, the guy's going to crawl away with his tail between his legs.

From a legal standpoint, the document from the woman would no doubt constitute both a bill of sale (no money need change hands for this) and a binding contract. I'm certain any lawyer would tell you you're safe.

It always angers me when someone puts money (or anything else) in front of the welfare of an animal.

I don't know what the laws are in Oregon, but in Canada, the diet they were feeding Zilla would constitute animal cruelty contrary to the Criminal Code (up to 5 years in prison) and also a criminal offense under the SPCA Act. If I read it correctly, Oregon's animal cruelty laws make such treatment a felony. If you hear from this idiot again, I'd toss that into the conversation, and see how intent he is on pursuing the matter!!

 

[Scott]

Possession being 9/10 of the law, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The idiot just sees $$$ signs in front of his face, and figured this was an easy way to get it.

Considering that a lawyer is going to cost him a LOT more than he could hope to get for Zilla, I suspect that when the lawyer (assuming he actually TALKS to one!) starts talking fees, the guy's going to crawl away with his tail between his legs.

From a legal standpoint, the document from the woman would no doubt constitute both a bill of sale (no money need change hands for this) and a binding contract. I'm certain any lawyer would tell you you're safe.

In my experience dolts who start spouting "lawyer" know they have lost the ethical and moral ground and employ third-grade intimidation tactics. Zilla's former jailer ("owner") is pathetic!

 

[Dinosrawr]

Wow. I cannot believe you had to deal with this, Amanda! I'm so proud you stuck your ground and told them the truth. What I really can't wrap my mind around is them thinking that 30-40 years for a macaw is a long life And that not feeding Zilla her "favourite" foods was a BAD thing!

Thank you for rescuing her from the clutches of such an idiot of a man. I'm sad that in your area feeding them poorly isn't abuse. Like Mh434 said, in Canada it's considered animal cruelty. I can't believe the idiot thought bringing a lawyer into the mix would do anything... heaven forbid you provide an animal with love, good health, and a safe & wonderful home!

 

[Amanda_Bennett]

I don't know what the laws are in Oregon, but in Canada, the diet they were feeding Zilla would constitute animal cruelty contrary to the Criminal Code (up to 5 years in prison) and also a criminal offense under the SPCA Act. If I read it correctly, Oregon's animal cruelty laws make such treatment a felony. If you hear from this idiot again, I'd toss that into the conversation, and see how intent he is on pursuing the matter!!

I'm going to do some more checking into the laws here and see what if anything can be done to help the 4 tiels he still has. The Sheriff's Deputy I have talked to is NOT an animal control officer (just a friend of mine) so maybe there is something I can do.

I would love to see him punished for what he has done to Zilla and the other birds, but my main focus right now has to be on Zilla's health and keeping her here with me where she is safe and cared for properly.

I'm not even saying she never gets anything here that she maybe shouldn't, but I know she will NEVER get coffee or soda! I cave to her cute whining and begging sometimes and she gets a small piece of a potato chip, or cracker, crust off my toast or bagel, piece of chex cereal, or some other similar snack. :54:

 

[getwozzy]

I did some googling and this is what I found so far...

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/167.310

(9) Minimum care means care sufficient to preserve the health and well-being of an animal and, except for emergencies or circumstances beyond the reasonable control of the owner, includes, but is not limited to, the following requirements:

(a) Food of sufficient quantity and quality to allow for normal growth or maintenance of body weight.

(10) Physical injury means physical trauma, impairment of physical condition or substantial pain.


http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/167.330

Animal neglect in the first degree
(1) A person commits the crime of animal neglect in the first degree if, except as otherwise authorized by law, the person intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or with criminal negligence:
(a) Fails to provide minimum care for an animal in the persons custody or control and the failure to provide care results in serious physical injury or death to the animal; or

 

[getwozzy]

(2) Animal neglect in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

 

[weco]

(2) Animal neglect in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

Maybe our Super Moderators could seek out someone or several someones who might be interested in becoming forum members & offer relevant discussion dialog, rather than the rest of us hypothesizing about these things.....

 

[getwozzy]

(2) Animal neglect in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

Maybe our Super Moderators could seek out someone or several someones who might be interested in becoming forum members & offer relevant discussion dialog, rather than the rest of us hypothesizing about these things.....

Who would you suggest I recruit for this dialog, Walt?

All I did was look up Oregon state laws (for the state in which I also live in) and posted my findings based on the facts that we know so far. Amanda is more than welcome to visit the same site through the links I provided to peruse the information herself, but how is what I posted irrelevant to this discussion??

 

[weco]

(2) Animal neglect in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

Maybe our Super Moderators could seek out someone or several someones who might be interested in becoming forum members & offer relevant discussion dialog, rather than the rest of us hypothesizing about these things.....

Who would you suggest I recruit for this dialog, Walt?

All I did was look up Oregon state laws (for the state in which I also live in) and posted my findings based on the facts that we know so far. Amanda is more than welcome to visit the same site through the links I provided to peruse the information herself, but how is what I posted irrelevant to this discussion??

When you posted the the section quotes, I figured you'd done as much & as often happens, my suggestion just popped into my head.....

Sorry, but though I was born in one of your neighboring states I have no contacts with any parrot owning legal eagles.....my attorney is older than I am & is a dog lover, but I'll broach it when I see him next week...but though he's a nice guy, I'm not sure he'll jump at the suggestion.....

 

[getwozzy]

I personally don't know anyone who specializes in animal neglect cases; Amanda's best bet would be to contact her local Animal Control officer to advise her.

But, from the same site (3) Animal means any nonhuman mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian or fish.

I merely posted the Oregon law quotes to re-assure the OP that (based on my findings...and no- I am not a legal professional), Zilla's previous owner would be considered neglectful.

 

[mh434]

Whether or not charges could successfully be brought against the guy, the mere threat of criminal charges (on top of his lawyer costs, presuming he could even get one to take his civil case - doubtful, in my view, without putting a lot of money up front) should make the guy shut up and go away for good.

Of course, some people are stupid enough not to know when to abandon a sinking ship...and it sounds like this guy might be one of those!

In any event, it looks like Multnomah County Animal Services is the agency in your area that deals with cruelty issues if you wish to follow up on it.

http://multcopets.org/

 

[Anansi]

(2) Animal neglect in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

Maybe our Super Moderators could seek out someone or several someones who might be interested in becoming forum members & offer relevant discussion dialog, rather than the rest of us hypothesizing about these things.....

Hahaha! But Walt, at least 90% of what you'll find on any given forum is hypothesis, no? After all, for the most part aren't all the opinions we offer on this site merely our hypotheses based upon our experiences with our fids? I'd shudder to think that all such earnestly offered advice would be deemed irrelevant in anyone's eyes.

Further, I wouldn't actually classify Shirre's (getwozzy's) carefully researched quotes as hypothesis so much as stated fact. She merely quoted what Oregon law has to say on the matter.

Now, how said law might be interpreted as regards this particular situation is, of course, subject to the individual take of the reader, but that would be the case even in a court of law. Hence our need for lawyers, judges, juries and all the other varied components and offices of our judicial system.

That said, I would very much love to hear your attorney's likely well-informed take on the relevant articles of law so helpfully provided by Lady Shirre.

 

[weco]

Get a lawyer right away, get your vet on your side attesting to the need for proper diet, and GO TO WAR. *fumes*

(Oh and I agree about recording the calls!)

Be careful with recording phone calls...some states do not allow the recording of phone calls without both sides' approval.....

 

[EAI]

I had to stand up and walk around a bit after reading about the conversation. I'm practically angry-singing right now, this is just horrible to read, who in their right minds would do that to an animal for their own greed!? You have absolutely every right to keep her, the level of care she received from you is no match to money. I'm surprised you never swore--but I understand if you did and wanted to leave it out. I mean who wouldn't do that to a moron like that!?

If this thing really does come through, I agree, having your avian vet or another top-notched vet present would help clarify and justify your cause of keeping her. They can easily pinpoint and prove that the care she was given was unjust and unfit.

I hope this guy has more common sense to get himself stuck in his own trap. But more importantly, I'm hoping for the best outcome for you and Zilla.

 

[weco]

(2) Animal neglect in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

Maybe our Super Moderators could seek out someone or several someones who might be interested in becoming forum members & offer relevant discussion dialog, rather than the rest of us hypothesizing about these things.....

Hahaha! But Walt, at least 90% of what you'll find on any given forum is hypothesis, no? After all, for the most part aren't all the opinions we offer on this site merely our hypotheses based upon our experiences with our fids? I'd shudder to think that all such earnestly offered advice would be deemed irrelevant in anyone's eyes.

Further, I wouldn't actually classify Shirre's (getwozzy's) carefully researched quotes as hypothesis so much as stated fact. She merely quoted what Oregon law has to say on the matter.

Now, how said law might be interpreted as regards this particular situation is, of course, subject to the individual take of the reader, but that would be the case even in a court of law. Hence our need for lawyers, judges, juries and all the other varied components and offices of our judicial system.

That said, I would very much love to hear your attorney's likely well-informed take on the relevant articles of law so helpfully provided by Lady Shirre.

If I could, I'd offer you a couple of lens wipes, 'cause I don't think I intimated that she hypothesized anything and in a following post, I think I actually recognized her posting as being that of controlling Oregon statutes, with my notation on hypothesizing being made relevant to the forum's membership and not "getwozzy." Possibly it was the late hour or early hour, depending on your specific circumstances, that prompted your quick perusal of the various elements/replies of this thread, in which case I might offer a cup of Starbucks or glass of orange juice, as the situation might require, but again, I'm constrained by a pair of rather short arms, so could not complete such an offer, not having Super Powers to do so from such an extended distance.....

Have a nice day...Steven, isn't it ? ? ?

Oh, before I forget, maybe 45% would be hypothesis, with the remaining 45% being supposition.....

 

[weco]

Not to hijack Amanda's thread, but since it seems the majority of our Super Moderators have perused the various responses to the several replies in this thread, I was wondering if any had noticed an earlier thread http://www.parrotforums.com/new-members-welcome/49154-baby-quaker-behavior-needs-addressed.html (reply #4) and maybe had any commentary there ? ? ?


Just wondering.....

 

[Amanda_Bennett]

Wow! I never meant to start anything here except a discussion on what has been going on in my small part of the world in regards to Zilla and her former owners. More as to how angry I am over his blatant disregard for her health and life and the $$$ he sees instead of the health and well being of a truly WONDERFUL bird.

I do appreciate the opinions, well wishes, and advice you all give. I appreciate the lengths some of you all go to in helping me figure out the best course of action.

I have read the links (I googled them before she had posted them, but thanks for the effort to help) Shirrie (getwozzy) has posted and have interpreted them to mean this guy could face real trouble (though he is in a different county than I am he is still in the same state) but that is just my opinion and interpretation.

My Mother has a lawyer friend (who we contacted yesterday) and he is looking into and interpreting what he thinks would be the best course of action. He doesn't usually handle these kinds of cases (he does wills and probates mostly), but would make an exception because of his friendship with my Mother. If it gets to a point he feels he can no longer be the best representation he will refer me to someone who does handle this kind of stuff.

As of last night he is advising me to add in all of my vet costs, time off work to take her to the vet, and related charges (including his fees and court costs) if this does go any further. So in the event I get served with court papers from this guy he isn't going to like the amount I will be counter suing for! He has also advised me NOT to record their phone calls, if they call again, let it go to voice mail, at that point they are aware what they say is being recorded and we can use it against them.

I have also been in contact with animal control officers from the county he lives in and also the ASPCA, and I have given my vet my permission in writing to release ALL Zilla's records and test results along with her opinion on how she came to be in this physical condition with these health problems and what steps are being taken to try to get her back to good health to any law enforcement officials and my attorney ONLY, so NOT their attorney (if they actually get one)