Gus drops like a stone, can we let his wings grow?

[Kentuckienne]

Gus came with clipped wings, and the vet clipped them again at his first checkup. But he doesn't seem to have any idea how to fly. Sometimes he falls off his perch because the grip strength in his feet is poor, and he drops like a stone. Straight down onto his belly, makes no attempt to flap. I'm thinking, maybe it's because the deformation in his spine either compresses the nerves going to the wings? His body is deformed, his organs are kind of compressed anyway. He has to strain sometimes to poop and he always looks like he's having breathing problems.

So I'm thinking he's maybe just not going to be capable of flight, and letting his wings grow out will at least give him some air resistance on the way down. But I don't want to get to a situation where his is capable of flight under stress and we lose him outside..Hawks and eagles out here might like some blue and gold snack food. Does this seem safe?

 

[SailBoat]

Gus came with clipped wings, and the vet clipped them again at his first checkup. But he doesn't seem to have any idea how to fly. Sometimes he falls off his perch because the grip strength in his feet is poor, and he drops like a stone. Straight down onto his belly, makes no attempt to flap. I'm thinking, maybe it's because the deformation in his spine either compresses the nerves going to the wings? His body is deformed, his organs are kind of compressed anyway. He has to strain sometimes to poop and he always looks like he's having breathing problems.

So I'm thinking he's maybe just not going to be capable of flight, and letting his wings grow out will at least give him some air resistance on the way down. But I don't want to get to a situation where his is capable of flight under stress and we lose him outside..Hawks and eagles out here might like some blue and gold snack food. Does this seem safe?

IMHO, a Handicapped Parrot should have their full wings in place! Once a full set is in place. Adjust amount of flight /glide based on your specific situation once you have determined he will fly when needed.

For Gus, flight 'could' be painful, but that is a discussion with his CAV. Even if painful, having flight, even if limited is wanted to provide balance and limited gliding or limited flight if and when needed, i.e. a fall.

Light Bodied Parrots like MAC's (Flight Surface Area compared to Body Weight) require limited to full flight to determine how many Primary Flight Feathers to trim and/or keep trimmed. Point is the number of Primary Flight Feathers trimmed from a MAC will be greater than a Amazon, because Amazons have a smaller Flight Surface compared to body weight!

Cuts that allow a Parrot to 'fly' like a dropped stone is dangerous to their health! Yes, it is a pain to constantly be counting wing feathers, but a crushed Keel can kill.

I am a strong believer in the Presentation (Show) style clip as it provides the outer Primary feathers as a protection for any new wing feathers when they grow back in. This helps limit the problem with broken 'blood' feathers.

 

[OutlawedSpirit]

I agree with boats on handicapped birds having flight, at least to some degree. Tiki is blind and I keep him fully flighted. You can imagine the issues if he were to get away outside, but I think the risk would be greater to him indoors considering how little risk there is he would actually get away outside. (If I take him outside, he is in a travel cage, etc). He isn't going to fly laps around the house like a normal flighted bird, but on several occasions he has been on a play stand, or even on my arm and spooked or lost his balance and being flighted allowed him to get to the ground safely.

I would imagine that even if Gus cannot fly due to his handicap, the extra lift from the flight feathers would at least help slow his decent as long as he opened his wings. Just like with Tiki losing his balance or misstepping, I think with Gus's poor grip strength, it would be wise to at least give him some degree of flight.

 

[EllenD]

I agree, no matter what the bird's situation is they should never be clipped in a way that they hit the ground like a paperweight! I have seen birds clipped like this in Petco many times, and have actually told a girl that I know who works in my local Petco about it, but she informed me that they show up to the store that way, depending on what "vendor" they came from. They have a huge fear of a bird getting loose in the store and not being able to get them down from the high rafters/ceiling, but watching a prospective buyer having a bird sitting on their finger and hearing it "SPLAT" or "THUMP" onto the floor is just awful.

As Sailboat has already mentioned, you can always let them grow in completely and see what his flight ability actually is since you don't really know, and then make a fully informed decision on what type of clip/how much of a clip to do.

"Dance like nobody's watching..."

 

[chris-md]

Dumb dumb dumb.

You need to teach him to recall training across ever separating perches. This will teach him how to use his wings quite effectively.

 

[SailBoat]

Dumb dumb dumb.

You need to teach him to recall training across ever separating perches. This will teach him how to use his wings quite effectively.

We are a fully Flighted home! I agree with your position. That said, the wealth of owners out there do not, and maybe I'm getting lazy, or targeting /pushing for the proper type of trimming if they are going to trim!

 

[Oli]

Poor baby! When I rescued Juliet from a breeder- which is a long story, essentially being that she was being given away for free because she wasn't hand-tamed! The breeder had clipped her so that she drops like a stone! Then she proceeded to offer free clippings in the future. As if I'm letting you ever touch this poor baby ever again!!!

Anyways- a clip isn't always bad. Because Juliet and I live in a small dorm for now, there is no flying room and so I clip about 3-4 feathers. She still has quite a bit of ability and length, but she is safer and won't hit walls in a small space.

 

[Kentuckienne]

That was my initial opinion, to let his wings grow in so he wouldn't break his keel bone when he plummets. The vet likes to keep birds trimmed, maybe because he has experience with patients' birds getting away. But Gus doesn't act as if he's ever flown. He doesn't even put his wings out to catch himself when he falls. I'll argue to let them grow out, see how well he doesn't fly, maybe just clip the very ends if he seems like he might. His human is in the habit of walking outside with him on the shoulder, and he's the less trainable of the pair...I'm bad, I haven't even made the padding for around his cage yet. Must get on it.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm throwing in with the grow-wing-feathers camp.
Just the added balance (like the tightrope walkers' balance-pole) might be good, maybe.

 

[chris-md]

I should clarify. As I'm wont to do, I'm a little hamfisted with words when in my head I'm more nuanced. I should have said I agree, if he has flight issues, the dumbest thing to do is clip the wings to protect him. He needs to learn to use them for safety sake. It's what got me training Parker.

I'm not indicting wing clipping by any means. Just this vets decision.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I should clarify. As I'm wont to do, I'm a little hamfisted with words when in my head I'm more nuanced. I should have said I agree, if he has flight issues, the dumbest thing to do is clip the wings to protect him. He needs to learn to use them for safety sake. It's what got me training Parker.

I'm not indicting wing clipping by any means. Just this vets decision.

I knew what you meant, no worries. It may be that even the shortest little hop would be too much for him. His lungs seem pretty compressed to the point where he has trouble breathing normally. I wonder if not being able to fly, because his physical problems started when he was under a year old, contributes to his general fearfulness. If he could flap even a little it might give him confidence. I'll show him Parker's videos for inspiration!

 

[SilleIN]

AARRGGHH I had written a LONG response, but did something and now it's all gone. Nevermind I'll just have to try and remember all I wrote.

First of all, sorry for not being here for quite some time. I have been really busy IRL and too tired in the evening to much else but sleep.

Regarding Gus' breathing, I can only tell Tinos story. When I got Tino he was breathing like he was having an astma attack. You could hear him "whistle" with every breath.
The birds respiratory system is not like ours, the have lungs like us, but they also have a number of air sacks, which is reliant on the movement of their wings.
When I got Tino I made him a "flight harness", where I would run around with him in the harness and he would flap his wings. Forgot to say, that Tino has broken his left wing and will probably never fly again.
Within a month his breathing improved and today he breathes normally.

As for letting the flight feathers grow I am all for it. All my macaws are fully feathered. However I have to mention, as your hubby walkes outside with Gus, that having all his flight feathers, might make his fly, if something hits him (neighbours ball or other). In all probability this will not happen, but have to mention the risk.
I always have a harness on my macaws, when outside, even Tino, who can't fly. I could just never forgive myself if I lost any of them.

We have talked about harnesses before I can only recommend you to put a harness on Gus when outside if you let his flight feathers grow

 

[SailBoat]

AARRGGHH I had written a LONG response, but did something and now it's all gone. Nevermind I'll just have to try and remember all I wrote.

First of all, sorry for not being here for quite some time. I have been really busy IRL and too tired in the evening to much else but sleep.

Regarding Gus' breathing, I can only tell Tinos story. When I got Tino he was breathing like he was having an astma attack. You could hear him "whistle" with every breath.
The birds respiratory system is not like ours, the have lungs like us, but they also have a number of air sacks, which is reliant on the movement of their wings.
When I got Tino I made him a "flight harness", where I would run around with him in the harness and he would flap his wings. Forgot to say, that Tino has broken his left wing and will probably never fly again.
Within a month his breathing improved and today he breathes normally.

As for letting the flight feathers grow I am all for it. All my macaws are fully feathered. However I have to mention, as your hubby walkes outside with Gus, that having all his flight feathers, might make his fly, if something hits him (neighbours ball or other). In all probability this will not happen, but have to mention the risk.
I always have a harness on my macaws, when outside, even Tino, who can't fly. I could just never forgive myself if I lost any of them.

We have talked about harnesses before I can only recommend you to put a harness on Gus when outside if you let his flight feathers grow

Great response!!!

I had forgotten the tie in between the movement of the wings and the operation of the Air Sacks! Thank-you for that reminder!!!

FYI: The longer the Thread or Post, the more commonly I will 'Save' the Thread or Post prior to submitting it! This will assure that you have a copy should the Server or more commonly 'ME' do something that causes it to disappear! It has saved me a ton of work recreating it!

 

[Kentuckienne]

AARRGGHH I had written a LONG response, but did something and now it's all gone. Nevermind I'll just have to try and remember all I wrote.

First of all, sorry for not being here for quite some time. I have been really busy IRL and too tired in the evening to much else but sleep.

Regarding Gus' breathing, I can only tell Tinos story. When I got Tino he was breathing like he was having an astma attack. You could hear him "whistle" with every breath.
The birds respiratory system is not like ours, the have lungs like us, but they also have a number of air sacks, which is reliant on the movement of their wings.
When I got Tino I made him a "flight harness", where I would run around with him in the harness and he would flap his wings. Forgot to say, that Tino has broken his left wing and will probably never fly again.
Within a month his breathing improved and today he breathes normally.

As for letting the flight feathers grow I am all for it. All my macaws are fully feathered. However I have to mention, as your hubby walkes outside with Gus, that having all his flight feathers, might make his fly, if something hits him (neighbours ball or other). In all probability this will not happen, but have to mention the risk.
I always have a harness on my macaws, when outside, even Tino, who can't fly. I could just never forgive myself if I lost any of them.

We have talked about harnesses before I can only recommend you to put a harness on Gus when outside if you let his flight feathers grow

I've never seen Gus flap his wings. He won't get on a hand-held perch, so I couldn't try to get him to perch-flap either. I would love to see him at least flapping, it could only do him good.