Dog Help !!

[Tsuki_theconure]

My dog Jasper has a bit of trouble with my conure Tsuki. I want them to get used to each other so that I can have Tsuki out of his cage with me without having to let my dog outside or have my brother take him into his room. He hasn't tried to hurt Tsuki but I'm not taking any chances.

When Tsuki climbs to the bottom of his cage or flaps his wings, Jasper jumps up to get a better look and pushes on the side of the cage. It breaks my heart because I would love to get Tsuki out and about the house more without having to force my dog away, I'm not sure what I should be doing.

Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[noodles123]

As much as I LOVE birds and dogs- never let your guard down. Both have the capacity to seriously hurt the other and even the most trusted dogs can easily turn on a bird via instincts---My only thought is SUPERVISE and do some desensitization training...Pair the bird +dog with positive experiences (treats, attention etc) but don't EVER get too comfortable with their partnership (however genuine it may seem).

 

[chris-md]

Noodles nailed it. What you want is not possible. If your dog is showing any prey drive at all they should not be out and unsupervised in the same room together.

This is the life we’ve accepted when we welcomed a feathered friend into our hearts.

We are dog sitters on rover.com (small dogs only under 40lbs) on top of our regular jobs. When we have dogs staying with us Parker remains securely in his cage. He only comes out when he’s showing propensity to stay on top of his cage (he is flightless), or if he’s sitting ON us while dogs are calm and relaxing/sleeping.

No chances.

 

[Inger]

I would never be comfortable letting them be out together, supervised or not. It’s not worth the risk. Even supervised-I can’t move as fast as my dog or my bird should instinct take over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Laurasea]

Your dog needs to respect you and your space and your ",toys" can you watch any dog training videos? It's a hard thing to explain, because it doesn't take yelling at the dog or any negative. I can put a steak on the ground and the dogs won't aprouch it. You walk through all doorway first, the dog dits before eating, like ceasar says you are the pack leader. I have a low puppy fence around nmy cages for protection vehennim not there. Just in case. If your fig goes to the bird cage get in front of the dog and make him back away with your body, you can say no once or use an arm to point. For me I just make eye contact and make them back up by taking a step towards them. So I would start with having your dog respect you, you might need dog training class or read up on it. Then I would always still be cautious. There is no way in heck my dogs would rush or touch the cage. I feel for you, this is rough.

 

[noodles123]

My parent's dog is old and scared of the bird. My bird is interested in the dog. The bird says, "Hi baby, come here" and the dog looks momentary and then walks away. They have been in closer proximity, but AGAIN---VERY SUPERVISED.

I always have eyes on one of them...and my bird doesn't like to fly (even though she could if she wanted to)

Honestly, this works, because the dog avoids the bird. That having been said, again, I always can see one of them..and if they are close enough to interact, I am right there in the middle of it---still not a fool-proof plan, but given my reaction speeds, coupled with my parent's dog's avoidance tendencies, it has worked.AGAIN---NOTHING WITHOUT FULL VIGILANCE!!!

 

[Scott]

Great advice above! Never trust, always be vigilant!

What breed of dog do you have?

 

[buurd]

My dog Jasper has a bit of trouble with my conure Tsuki. I want them to get used to each other so that I can have Tsuki out of his cage with me without having to let my dog outside or have my brother take him into his room. He hasn't tried to hurt Tsuki but I'm not taking any chances.

When Tsuki climbs to the bottom of his cage or flaps his wings, Jasper jumps up to get a better look and pushes on the side of the cage. It breaks my heart because I would love to get Tsuki out and about the house more without having to force my dog away, I'm not sure what I should be doing.

Does anyone have experience with this?

I have a small dog, and as much as it would be wonderful to have every creature in the house exist in some kind of mutual love, it is a complete lie that they should.
It's complete man-made malarky, the idea that 'the lion shall lay down with the lamb.' [I think even in the bible, it's meant to describe heaven; which is also an unnatural state.]

No matter what you see on Youtube that would tell you different, it is completely unnatural for predator and prey to exist in harmony, and you're putting going to be putting all of your animals in a stressful state, if you ignore this rule of nature. A prey-driven animal, like a dog or cat, has a brain that overrides anything you teach them. Even if they can obey your rules 99% of the time, that 1% comes alomg faster than you know. Because they will be constantly in a state of where they have to deny their natural instincts. The movements, smells and noises of a prey animal , like a bird, are constantly triggering the dog's instincts, and your demands on them to behave unnaturally, clash with that, and are a cause of stress for the dog.

Protect all of your animals by following a protocol with them. Exclude the dog from the room your bird is hanging out in.

Move the birds cage to a place where the dog cant touch it.
It'll stress the bird out by having the dog be in a position where it can even touch the cage. Can you imagine being as small and fragile as a bird and having a prey animal as big as even a small dog, with huge teeth, jumping up at you, bouncing off your home? That would be terrifying

Keep a perimeter of ground around that cage where your dog is not allowed. When he gets close to that area, call him away, firmly. Dont yell at him. He has to learn that that is not his territory, anywhere in that buffer area around the bird cage. When he stares at the bird or shakes with excitement, call him away from there, and leave the room with him. Dont shame him.
When the bird needs to come out, walk him out of the room, first. Take him to another room, or downstairs, or put him in his crate, but give him something to reward him, and that he can play with. Treats. A new toy. Etc.
Walk him, or groom him, or play with him for a bit, and then go to your room to let the bird out (door shut to the dog, or a secure door gate he cant climb over). The dog will learn that that you are rewarding him for listening to you, and for giving the bird and you alone time

Animals dont think like humans, and shouldnt be forced to. Respect their natures, and protect all of them. If you understand them, in their ways, you can live in harmony, under a system that favors everyone.


As an aside, theyre finding that at a lot of nature spots, more people are having accidents and dying unnecessary deaths, because more and more people are not following park warnings that are posted, and are behaving recklessly --all because they want the best pics to post on social media. So they are risking their lives, just so they can impress people on social media.
This is one of the stupidest things to come from social media use. And that's how I feel about seeing people act recklessly with any animals, even pets, on youtube and facebook, etc. The irresponsible behavior toward -and around- animals (and human babies) on these sites and media, normalizes harmful ideas, regarding interspecies interaction.
Everyone loves a clip of a cat nursing a squirrel, etc, But those are outliers of animal behavior, and they usually happen when the animal's instinct outweighs their brain. Eg, the cat needed to lose the extra milk, and the orphan squirrels needed it. But it's barely more natural for a cat to nurse a squirrel baby, than it is for a human to nurse a kitten
It is so tempting to want to see the world in human terms, but it's narcissistic human ego at the root of that. Dogs have learned how to rudimentarily understand, and respect, humans over 15,000 years ago; it's time we remembered that, and did the same, with them.

So anyway, dont let your dog make you feel sad that he cant hang around for bird-time, too. He has a cushy life, and he knows you love him if you take care of him and exercise him and play with him and groom him.
I have to tell myself the same thing, all the time; so I get it ! The impulse to baby your dog is always there, because they are so dependent on you, like children. My dog can make her eyes well up with tears! It's in my human nature to feel sorry for her. But she's not sad; not the way you and I understand sadness. She *learned* how to manipulate humans, by making tears, when she wanted to get her way. I wouldnt let a human child manipulate me with crocodile tears, and I shouldnt let her, either. The one thing children and dogs do have in common, though, is that they want ALL of your attention, ALL of the time. But what happens to kids that get this? They turn into brats, lol Same thing with dogs, sometimes.
But when a dog is truly sad, they show it in other ways. So dont fall for it

 

[buurd]

My parent's dog is old and scared of the bird. My bird is interested in the dog. The bird says, "Hi baby, come here" and the dog looks momentary and then walks away. They have been in closer proximity, but AGAIN---VERY SUPERVISED.

I always have eyes on one of them...and my bird doesn't like to fly (even though she could if she wanted to)

Honestly, this works, because the dog avoids the bird. That having been said, again, I always can see one of them..and if they are close enough to interact, I am right there in the middle of it---still not a fool-proof plan, but given my reaction speeds, coupled with my parent's dog's avoidance tendencies, it has worked.AGAIN---NOTHING WITHOUT FULL VIGILANCE!!!

That's the one thing that's hard for humans to gage: the fact that their response/reaction times erode, over time. You cant tell, it happens so slowly. Then when it finally dawns on you, you are in denial about. You just cant believe it's happening to you :51:

 

[Tsuki_theconure]

Jasper doesn't show any prey drive, only pure curiosity. I would NEVER leave them unsupervised, I would never risk it. Tsuki is a very curious bird, even though his wings are clipped due to situational reasons he always tries to fly. Which results with him on the floor. I would love for them to at least be in the same room but at the moment I don't want to risk it.

 

[Tsuki_theconure]

Thank you for your response!
I have begun leading my dog outside or into another room with toys, food and other things he enjoys. Otherwise he'll get jealous real fast. I've also taped off an area in the living room and am in the process of teaching my dog not to go past the tape. I hope that by doing this my dog will stop jumping up onto the cage.

 

[buurd]

Jasper doesn't show any prey drive, only pure curiosity. I would NEVER leave them unsupervised, I would never risk it. Tsuki is a very curious bird, even though his wings are clipped due to situational reasons he always tries to fly. Which results with him on the floor. I would love for them to at least be in the same room but at the moment I don't want to risk it.

It really doesnt matter if he shows prey drive to you , or not. If he's a dog, he has it. He's a predator.
All it takes, is one unfortunate moment where it it kicks in, for him.

My birds are from your country, and they dont climb, so they can be floor hoppers. When a dog sees that, his prey drive kicks in, whether he letting you see it, or not.
My birds arent clipped, so in a scary situation, they could potentially fly away from it. If your bird is clipped, he cant even do that. He's totally vulnerable; a sitting duck.
Everybody, without exception, loses focus at some point around their pets, and their focus is shifted. All it takes, is a second fro something to break bad.
You got a lot of good advice in this thread; you should probably heed it. You cant be too careful, to be a responsible pet owner.

 

[buurd]

Thank you for your response!
I have begun leading my dog outside or into another room with toys, food and other things he enjoys. Otherwise he'll get jealous real fast. I've also taped off an area in the living room and am in the process of teaching my dog not to go past the tape. I hope that by doing this my dog will stop jumping up onto the cage.

I know what it's like to have a jealous dog ;p The thing is, Jasper, like my dog, will learn to live with their jealous feelings. It's not nearly the end of the world for them, despite how dramatic they can be about it. And they understand that they have it good. My dog was adopted, so she really knows how much better her life is now than with the crappy people who dumped her. She's just doing what she thinks will get her the most attention, because that's what dogs do, when there's more than just them and us in a pack.
If anything, my dog is getting more treats and toys, and special one-on-one time from me, than she got before the birds came (because I secretly feel guilty, heh). But she's getting it on my terms; not hers. If you show them that they cant manipulate you, it's amazing how fast they adjust to you sharing alone time with the birds.

But yeah; I felt bad inside, for shutting the door on her, shutting her out, at first. She doesnt have to like it, but she has to respect it. Everyone needs to follow house rules.

 

[noodles123]

I do not think my parent's dog would hurt my bird on purpose, but if the bird snapped at her, I could see her giving a "warning" nip that could be deadly to a bird but safe for puppies/humans/dogs/cats...If my cockatoo got mad, at the dog, this could also be bad, as the dog could be injured and then react to that pain etc (assuming the dog wasn't blind by that point).



This is why I do not leave them unsupervised.


The thing is, neither knows what the other is thinking, so while I can kind of read my bird's cues, the dog cannot. If the bird tried to preen her eye, that could go terribly wrong. FAST. And, there is a reason dogs chase balls and play catch---deep inside there is an instinct to hunt things...even if you want to call it something else...the instinct to grab things that are passing by. And, if you had no hands, and something came shooting towards your face, your instinct (even as a human) would be to catch it...Right? A dog catching a bird could kill the bird.

Even if your dog isn't a predator, it isn't expecting a bird's erratic behavior. Imagine you are hanging out with someone smaller than you (say, a 10 year old) and without warning, they yell "screw you" and punch you right in the face. You are an adult who never had any intention of hurting this child, but in panic/self-defense mode, all animals REACT. These reactions are often not very safe/smart (e.g., the impulse to push when pushed, hit with hit, bite when bitten). Now imagine that your hands are your teeth/mouth (as is the case for most dogs/birds).


Ultimately, as the owner, it is your call, but if anything goes wrong, it is VERY irresponsible to blame the dog or the bird...And people struggle with that...I don't understand it, but when animals attack, people seem to need vengeance. It would be cruel to put the dog down or give it away if it killed your bird. It would be equally cruel to cage the bird 24/7 or shun it/give it away if it attacked the dog etc. If things get bad, as the human, it is on your conscience.


Off-topic comment on my statement above- I am not saying that people should never give away birds...I am saying, however, that a transition like that leaves a permanent mark. It should only be as a very last resort. People should never adopt a bird with the mentality that they can give them away if things don't work out.

 

[Flboy]

My first bird, Tango, was killed right in front of us! By a dog that showed no interest! Pure horror!!

 

[EllenD]

All dogs (and cats) have a "prey drive", it's just how the food-chain goes. And unfortunately even the nicest, calmest, most docile, well-trained dog in the world can suddenly and without warning snap and kill a little bird before you even know that it's happened, as it only takes one bite to the head. And since your Conure has it's wings clipped, he does not have the capability to fly up and get away from your dog either, so that's something else that you need to take into consideration...

You cannot EVER let them out together unsupervised, and I wouldn't even attempt to try to "train" your dog to "be nice" to your bird, as that's not ever going to make it alright for them to be together. You can train your dog to keep away from the bird, but there's nothing that you can do to train the hunter/prey-drive out of him. They aren't ever going to be "friends", that's just not how they work. So you need to always be watching, and if your bird is out free in a room, then your dog needs to not be free in the room. I know it's a pain, I have 2 dogs myself and have to do the same thing. But once you get a routine down it will just be the way it is, and it will simply become the way things are run in your house.

 

[Scott]

While all dogs are de facto predators, certain species have a seemingly lessened prey drive. I've found Great Danes to be surprisingly respective of my birds; they appear to view companion avians as family members. All of that said, I do not trust and take chances!

 

[buurd]

While all dogs are de facto predators, certain species have a seemingly lessened prey drive. I've found Great Danes to be surprisingly respective of my birds; they appear to view companion avians as family members. All of that said, I do not trust and take chances!

Yeah; that's what they will say about certain types of breeds. But I know of two major attacks by Great Danes, on children. I think sometimes the charming things said about some breeds are misleading. Dalmations got a cozy family dog rep from Disney movies, and that just isnt the case with that breed. Likewise, calling St Bernards and Great Danes 'gentle giants, ' doesnt necessarily make them so.
Unless you have a highly ethical breeder who has specifically 'bred out' aggressiveness etc, over at least 7 generations (iirc), you have no idea of your dog's real temperment. nd even then, environment and nuture count a lot , too.
So many people swear their dog is gentle, child friendly, wouldnt harm a fly, not spoiled, etc, and then, bam!, the dog, in the perfect situation, proves otherwise.

i LOVE dogs. More than probably any other animal in the world. But they are who they are. And as noodles says, it's so unfair to blame the animal for the owners arrogance and (usually, willfull) ignorance. They should never have to suffer that.

I really believe respect for animals should be taught in school. How many dog bites and attacks would this deter, if kids were taught the right thing in respecting the animal (like not sticking your face in their face, etc), instead of projecting human emotions and reasoning onto them?
Really, it's parents everywhere who need to be taught this before they bring a baby home, but you cant teach them, and that's a shameful, but totally human, flaw. Just look at Youtube clips.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Great thread!

And a great opportunity for us all to remind ourselves of the need for vigilance.

I love reminders, personally! I figure I can never be too careful.

 

[LaManuka]

I blame YouTube. All those cute “awww look at the puppy/kitty playing with the birdie ain’t that cute” videos. Yep cute until the owners leave the room “I only turned my back for a moment!” Or until the bird makes a sudden move that causes puppy/kitty to forget their training and react instinctively. It only takes a split second and as birds are so fragile the consequences are tragic and you’d never forgive yourself. It’s not worth it - keep them separate!