Doc appointment..

[FlyBirdiesFly]

Jim, you know how I feel about clipping. My birds are all flighted and I am against clipping unless absolutely necessary for the safety of the bird. I know how much Beebs loves to fly and taking that away from a bird is something I could never do. After all, birds are designed to fly, it’s just what they do. Flying is also the best form of exercise for a bird, and I’m sure with Amy being unflighted and overweight you can understand that. In my opinion, flighted birds are happier and healthier than clipped ones, and as you’ve probably observed they get great joy from flying.

I think you should give Beebs a chance. Have David give him his favorite treats, and soon he’ll learn to trust him. Yes, it may take more time, but it’s better than depriving Beebs of flight. I don’t think the reason you’re giving is big enough to take away from Beebs the very essence of a bird.

 

[HEEDLESS]

OMG Heedless... your vet torments birds just to make the feathers grow in faster?
You need a new vet- or a serious talk.
Those flighfeathers are embeded almost in the bone (attached to the periost- the sheet that covers all bones in the body) it is like puling out a humans fingernails and should ONLY been done in dire emergecies not for "convenience".
Building those feathers takes massive amounts of nutrients and energy from the birds body.
(Probably why the discolouration: you are exhausting her reserves and stressing her with those useless tormenting-pain sessions )

Just wait till the next natural mold and stop putting your bird through this torture.


(Yes it is an outrage they clipped her against your wishes- but now it is up to you to make sure she does not hurt herself while nature fixes that problem for you-- make a ladder so she can climb of the cage to reach you, do not let her crash&learn. PLze- she is a bird- do not make her hurt herself!)


=


Jim: as I stated before: I trust you, just wanted to point out some things.
I get that "my roof- my rules" is an important part, and we all want our birds to be liked and in their turn love the other people around us.


Your brother was already a favorite, your bird is now a bit unsure- new stuff all around- and will most likely get back to his normal David-loving behaviour once he feels more secure.
But if you feel it is better to just slow him down... (bird not brother )
I love you for the way you love your birds and all - no worries there, whatever you decide.

Will Jim, you've always known my stance on clipping, all you can do is what you feel is the best for the Beebs. I'm always dubious of cats having known one who never showed interest in wild birds but on several occasions would wake up to find the garden littered with feathers and a very proud (but dimwitted) huntress stood with her prize, meanwhile the other 3 cats who did show interest never got a single one. Go figure.

Heedless, I'd definitely kick that vet to the curb. You're lucky your bird wasn't killed during the numerous anesthesia which was done for... a wing clip, which you were charged an insane price for. Most people here pay around $20 for a clip. That vet is ripping you off and putting an insane risk of death for your bird. A lot of vets don't use anesthesia unless absolutely necessary because a lot of birds don't wake up from it

Heedless, I can't be absolutely certain from the pic provided. From what I can see, though, she might be plucking/over-preening. What I can say with certainty is that Christa and Triggs are 100% correct about that vet. Putting a bird under is a risk every time, and doing so repeatedly for so unnecessary a procedure seems to me to be either an issue of ineptitude or greed. The only time I'd look to pull a feather is in the case of a broken blood feather, in which case it is a necessity to save your bird's life.

It's actually quite likely the repeated pullings have driven her to being over-preening/plucking, as the discomfort likely drives her up the wall.

*Note: This should really be a topic for it's own thread, but I've opted to leave it since you also addressed Jim's concerns as well... as did Christa and Triggs in their responses. But if you would like to discuss this further, you should start your own thread. If you do, you can link back to this one as a reference point. But I don't want this one to be derailed. Thanks for understanding.

Thanks all... **HUGS** Very much appreciated.

I think I need help with a serious talk like Christa has said.

She did't pluck her feathers. Those feathers were broken by falling off.

I do need to see her complete Panel labs with Vit D, Vit A, and Liver Function test this time. And things do not go well this time. I will be done with this vet and go see other CAV then.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU....

**CHUUUUUUUUUU**

​

 

[LordTriggs]

As an added note Jim, David knows how to bird and I'm sure you'll be around constantly. Nothing is stopping you letting BB keep his sleeves (you got me saying it now) and if needed you can always get a trim done after giving him a trial period, he may do fine and you won't need to get it done. Once done though he can't get back to zooming around until he gets his new sleeves in

 

[EllenD]

This post isn't about "agreeing or disagreeing" with me or anyone else...Christa, you can give your opinion and so can everyone else, and it will certainly be respected by Jim and every other member here, including myself...

That being said, the moral or bottom-line of my entire post wasn't at all supposed to target Christa or anyone else, as she was not the only person who used the word "force", and I don't at all think that Jim or his brother would EVER do anything with the purpose behind it being to "force" anything on his birds at all. That's what I meant to say, I guess I didn't get that point across clearly.

Bottom-line to what I was trying to say is that clipping a bird's wings is always a personal decision that their owner has to make with regard to their own situation, and there are MANY situations where clipping a bird's wings could be helpful, or actually is necessary for the set-up of the household, the people in the household, or is at the very least worth a try...And I don't say that lightly, as all of my birds are fully-flighted and have free-roam of my house...but that's my situation, not anyone else's, and I choose to respect that.

If clipping a bird's wings was at all permanent, painful, harmful, etc. then I wouldn't support ANYONE doing it...but the fact is that it's not at all painful, it's very temporary if you make sure it's done correctly, and in my 33 years of owning/breeding/training/medically treating all species of birds and parrots, I've not EVER seen a safe, responsible, temporary wing-clipping cause ANY long or even short-term problems for a bird. I've never seen a bird who has been clipped have their wings grow back-in and have trouble flying again either physically or psychologically. I've never seen a clipped bird suffering from any emotional or neurological trauma from being clipped. So I just personally don't see any harm at all in doing it if you think it could improve a situation, your bond/relationship with your bird, or ultimately improve the overall welfare of the bird for the long-haul, like I believe would be the result for Jim in his current situation. (Please remember that I'm only speaking about birds who have been clipped properly and in a way that only their Primaries have been clipped,
and where they are not only able to glide to floor, but also glide across a good distance,
usually across a room, and where their wings grow back-in within a couple of months tops...I'm well-aware of both the physical and psychological ramifications of clipping a bird's wings too early, before the fully-fledge, or clipping only one wing, or more commonly when they're butchered into their secondaries to the point it takes up to a year or longer for them to grow back-in...I've seen this and I certainly DO NOT condone this type of wing-clipping, nor do I condone continuously keeping your bird's wings clipped UNLESS you live in a situation where you have to do it for the safety of your bird or because the owner has a physical disability or a reason why they can't properly care for a flighted bird).

So, I think that Jim and anyone else reading this thread because they are considering clipping their bird's wings has gotten great advice from all-angles of the discussion, and that's what we do here. Ultimately it's the bird owner's decision, and I think my biggest problem is that whenever this topic comes-up, I feel like a lot of people are saying things, purposely or not, that invoke guilt in anyone who is considering clipping their bird's wings, and that isn't necessary or helpful.

 

[Allee]

Oh Ellen, I don't think anyone has accused you of not getting your point across.

I think one of the reasons clipping remains a hot topic is due to the fact that it was such a common practice for a very long time. Clipping was probably far more common in 1985 when you started owning/breeding/training/medically treating birds than it is now in 2018. New information comes to light, records are kept, information is exchanged and views change. Ultimately it is
the owner's decision alone and I think we can all respect that.

Nothing at all wrong with offering advice but I don't understand how you can say if done correctly wing clipping is always painless, how can you know that? Birds are prey animals, they spend a big part of their day preening their feathers, they were hatched with wings, the gift of flight, who are we to say it's painless to have that gift taken away? As others have mentioned, it may take longer but a bond built from trust is lasting and worth the extra effort.

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

Nothing at all wrong with offering advice but I don't understand how you can say if done correctly wing clipping is always painless, how can you know that? Birds are prey animals, they spend a big part of their day preening their feathers, they were hatched with wings, the gift of flight, who are we to say it's painless to have that gift taken away? As others have mentioned, it may take longer but a bond built from trust is lasting and worth the extra effort.

Well, we know that wing clipping is physically painless to a bird because feathers have no nerves or blood vessels. But I’d agree that taking away flight could be psychologically and physiologically damaging to a creature evolved to fly.

 

[Terry57]

Jim, first of all, I know you will do what you feel is best for The Beebs, you are such a good parront. I just wanted to share my personal experience.

I do believe it affects them psychologically, even if it only lasts as long as the clip does. I have clipped before for safety reasons over the years, and so many times have seen them lose their self confidence, and some have shown signs of disinterest in toys and activities they enjoyed prior to the clip. In one case it took a couple of years after being clipped before my bird was back to normal. For me, I found them being clipped counter productive to training as they had no choice in the matter and we ended up training once again once they could again fly.

This is definitely a personal decision for people to do, but I hate seeing it mentioned to people as a way to make training easier. I think it should be a last resort if a bird is a danger to himself or others rather than a first suggestion on a bird who could just use a little more training.

All my birds are flighted now, and it seems they (and me) are much happier.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Thank you all for your input I have also discussed this with David and he agrees 100% NOT to clip Beebs just so it'll make it easier? for them to bond.

Yes the little guy loves to zoom about and as I have mentioned he is quite skilled at it. You all know that I wish Amy could fly,and I've been giving her flapping lessons,but she never knew or learned to fly and it was all my fault for that :52:

So I've decided NOT to clip fluff boy


Jim

 

[wrench13]

Jim, what ever you decide for the Fids is gonna be fine. I know what kinda parront you are to your flock.

Happy Holidays from Al, Geri, Brett, Erik, Salty and Tinker !!

 

[Laurasea]

Back long long ago.. lol there was different information on Parrots, everyone kept them clipped. I too wish Penny could fly, she gets so angry when I try to get wing flaps, or have her jump three inches to the bed, she never even hops to s perch..

 

[Terry57]

Jim, The Beebs and Amy are very lucky to have both you and Uncle David in their lives

 

[Anansi]

Thank you all for your input I have also discussed this with David and he agrees 100% NOT to clip Beebs just so it'll make it easier? for them to bond.

Yes the little guy loves to zoom about and as I have mentioned he is quite skilled at it. You all know that I wish Amy could fly,and I've been giving her flapping lessons,but she never knew or learned to fly and it was all my fault for that :52:

So I've decided NOT to clip fluff boy


Jim

I'm hoping you'll keep us updated on Beebs' progress, Jim. I'm betting he'll come around.

And as for Amy's flapping lessons, I'm going through that with Maya as well. That stubborn girl has decided not to even flap anymore... no matter how quickly I lower my arm. (Of course, there's a limit to just how fast I'd go.) She just puts on her vise-grip and enjoys the ride. Like Amy, she never got the chance to fledge. Her previous owner said she was clipped when he got her. I don't know if she'll ever get comfortable with flying, but like you I'll keep trying.

 

[Inger]

And as for Amy's flapping lessons, I'm going through that with Maya as well. That stubborn girl has decided not to even flap anymore... no matter how quickly I lower my arm. (Of course, there's a limit to just how fast I'd go.) She just puts on her vise-grip and enjoys the ride. Like Amy, she never got the chance to fledge. Her previous owner said she was clipped when he got her. I don't know if she'll ever get comfortable with flying, but like you I'll keep trying.

And then Maya says to her BFF, The Rickeybird, “I’ve finally trained him to do the carnival ride trick. He still doesn’t drop quite fast enough, but he really seems to be catching on!”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Inger]

Thank you all for your input I have also discussed this with David and he agrees 100% NOT to clip Beebs just so it'll make it easier? for them to bond.



Yes the little guy loves to zoom about and as I have mentioned he is quite skilled at it. You all know that I wish Amy could fly,and I've been giving her flapping lessons,but she never knew or learned to fly and it was all my fault for that :52:



So I've decided NOT to clip fluff boy





Jim

This makes me very happy, and I *love* that Uncle David agrees. No matter what you’d decided, I know you would have made the choice from the very best place. I just love knowing that Beebs gets to keep zipping around and providing everyone with joy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GaleriaGila]

Inger, you are so sweet, and psychic, too... the Rb approves of hens who rule the roost... OTHER roosters' oofs.

I too am happy about the Beebs' outcome. But as many said... after a boisterous and sincere discussion about all the pros and cons, a great parront like our Jim knows in his heart how best to love and care for his bird.

Flap on, Fluff Boy. (I was thinking of the Beebs, but you can flap, too, Jim. Probably good for both of ya.)

 

[Anansi]

And as for Amy's flapping lessons, I'm going through that with Maya as well. That stubborn girl has decided not to even flap anymore... no matter how quickly I lower my arm. (Of course, there's a limit to just how fast I'd go.) She just puts on her vise-grip and enjoys the ride. Like Amy, she never got the chance to fledge. Her previous owner said she was clipped when he got her. I don't know if she'll ever get comfortable with flying, but like you I'll keep trying.

And then Maya says to her BFF, The Rickeybird, “I’ve finally trained him to do the carnival ride trick. He still doesn’t drop quite fast enough, but he really seems to be catching on!”

Hahahahaha! Hilarity! And probably spot on!

 

[FlyBirdiesFly]

I’m so happy for you and Beebs! Fly on, fluff boy

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Thank you all for your input I have also discussed this with David and he agrees 100% NOT to clip Beebs just so it'll make it easier? for them to bond.



Yes the little guy loves to zoom about and as I have mentioned he is quite skilled at it. You all know that I wish Amy could fly,and I've been giving her flapping lessons,but she never knew or learned to fly and it was all my fault for that :52:



So I've decided NOT to clip fluff boy





Jim

This makes me very happy, and I *love* that Uncle David agrees. No matter what you’d decided, I know you would have made the choice from the very best place. I just love knowing that Beebs gets to keep zipping around and providing everyone with joy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last night while the kids were out,Beebs was on my knee,my cell was in my shirt pocket,and I got a text..my phone is set on LOUD when a text comes in,and we all know how easily cockatiels spook . Well that poor boy took off from my knee,yelling his fool head off,zooming around the living room,thru the opening between the living room and kitchen,zoomed in circles in the kitchen,screeching his head off! He landed on his uncle david's shoulder,his hat high in the air and his beady little eyes bugging out lol. He wouldn't come back to me! He sat on david's shoulder telling David all of his problems lol..we couldn't help but laugh That's when david chguckled and said "nahhh whatever you do,don't have him clipped!"


Jim

 

[LordTriggs]

an excerpt from BB's conversation with David: "You saw it! He tried to kill me! He had a gun! Millet please? head rubs?"

I do love BB's little character, strange to think it's the same bird who was having such trouble taking medicine. Plus the double team of a tiny tiel and a big zon is a funny image to me!

How's Amy doing with the locale change? I trust he's doing fine

 

[Laurasea]

Thank you all for your input I have also discussed this with David and he agrees 100% NOT to clip Beebs just so it'll make it easier? for them to bond.



Yes the little guy loves to zoom about and as I have mentioned he is quite skilled at it. You all know that I wish Amy could fly,and I've been giving her flapping lessons,but she never knew or learned to fly and it was all my fault for that :52:



So I've decided NOT to clip fluff boy





Jim

This makes me very happy, and I *love* that Uncle David agrees. No matter what you’d decided, I know you would have made the choice from the very best place. I just love knowing that Beebs gets to keep zipping around and providing everyone with joy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last night while the kids were out,Beebs was on my knee,my cell was in my shirt pocket,and I got a text..my phone is set on LOUD when a text comes in,and we all know how easily cockatiels spook . Well that poor boy took off from my knee,yelling his fool head off,zooming around the living room,thru the opening between the living room and kitchen,zoomed in circles in the kitchen,screeching his head off! He landed on his uncle david's shoulder,his hat high in the air and his beady little eyes bugging out lol. He wouldn't come back to me! He sat on david's shoulder telling David all of his problems lol..we couldn't help but laugh That's when david chguckled and said "nahhh whatever you do,don't have him clipped!"


Jim

What a perfect story, Beebs finally weighed in on his sleeve debate!